APL Objects: DCOs (Dyalog Component Objects) 
Author Message
 APL Objects: DCOs (Dyalog Component Objects)

At http:\\www.aplteam.de you will find a significant number of APL
objects. Every DCO offered at the download page is free and solves a
typical every-day-task. Some of them are relatively small like
#.Registry or #.WinFile. Some of them, however, are very large and
powerful like #.Dlgs and #.TableEdit.

For the complex DCOs, sample workspaces are available. For nearly all
DCOs, help files (CHM) are available.

Best of all: all the software is FREE.

However, to become familiar with the underlying concepts was a bit
difficult as it was to master the so-called DCO-Manager, which is
integrated in the session object offered by APL Software Team. That
was yesterday. Now you can download a free PDF file from
http:\\www.kai-jaeger.de. This 380-page book explains:

* The concepts
* The DCO-Browser (A tool for using DCOs)
* The DCO-Manager (A tool to adminster DCOs)
* Most of the DCOs available for download.

Any comments are very welcome.

Kai Jaeger



Sat, 19 Feb 2005 22:45:05 GMT  
 APL Objects: DCOs (Dyalog Component Objects)

Quote:
> At http:\\www.aplteam.de you will find a significant number of APL
> objects. Every DCO offered at the download page is free and solves a
> typical every-day-task. Some of them are relatively small like
> #.Registry or #.WinFile. Some of them, however, are very large and
> powerful like #.Dlgs and #.TableEdit.

This stuff is quite amazing. I'll surely spend more time looking at the
content of the workspaces. The first comment though is based on skin
feeling. I opened the sample application and up came a window with a
tip: the "Close" button was too small, to the point the first and the
last characters were clipped. Also I noted in the code that in a lot of
places the font "MS Sans Serif" is hard-encoded. This is not very user
friendly... To anybody who decides to start GUI development I recommend
the reading of this page: http://www.iarchitect.com/mshame.htm which is
quite good and eye-opening. Also, to avoid the creation of GUI
interfaces which would look odd in the Windows world (and would push APL
in a corner), I also strongly recommend the reading of
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/dnwue/html/welcome.asp?frame=tru
e
I am sure I found somewhere a list of recommendations about the size of
the buttons and labels and their alignment, but I cannot find it now.
For example: in the proposed package the dialogues for "Yes/No",
"OK/Cancel" are not the so called "Common dialogues" but are
hand-crafted. They look really strange, I am afraid. And to a casual
user they would look really odd, possibly to the point of resulting
disturbing... These are my opinions, of course and should be taken
lightly...

By the way: backslashes are used by Microsoft to separate the sections
of a path. When quoting URLs the correct character is the forward-slash.
Therefore the webpage should be http://www.aplteam.de/ Another example
of a small thing which can make a difference though...

All in all, I am really impressed by what you have done and how you have
documented it. Thanks a lot for sharing it with the rest of the
community.
--

Homepage: currently offline

<<<Akane no iinazuke! ---
   Akane's fiance!>>>



Sun, 20 Feb 2005 00:46:16 GMT  
 APL Objects: DCOs (Dyalog Component Objects)
Use 24 by 80 pixels, and you won't be shot! :)

24 by 100 or more is OK for wider texts.

24 by 60 is a minimum, should be used with caution.

I can think of only one case where the button may be narrower: 3 dots on it.
/ Tomas



Quote:
> > At http:\\www.aplteam.de you will find a significant number of APL
> > objects. Every DCO offered at the download page is free and solves a
> > typical every-day-task. Some of them are relatively small like
> > #.Registry or #.WinFile. Some of them, however, are very large and
> > powerful like #.Dlgs and #.TableEdit.

> This stuff is quite amazing. I'll surely spend more time looking at the
> content of the workspaces. The first comment though is based on skin
> feeling. I opened the sample application and up came a window with a
> tip: the "Close" button was too small, to the point the first and the
> last characters were clipped. Also I noted in the code that in a lot of
> places the font "MS Sans Serif" is hard-encoded. This is not very user
> friendly... To anybody who decides to start GUI development I recommend
> the reading of this page: http://www.iarchitect.com/mshame.htm which is
> quite good and eye-opening. Also, to avoid the creation of GUI
> interfaces which would look odd in the Windows world (and would push APL
> in a corner), I also strongly recommend the reading of
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/dnwue/html/welcome.asp?frame=tru
> e
> I am sure I found somewhere a list of recommendations about the size of
> the buttons and labels and their alignment, but I cannot find it now.
> For example: in the proposed package the dialogues for "Yes/No",
> "OK/Cancel" are not the so called "Common dialogues" but are
> hand-crafted. They look really strange, I am afraid. And to a casual
> user they would look really odd, possibly to the point of resulting
> disturbing... These are my opinions, of course and should be taken
> lightly...

> By the way: backslashes are used by Microsoft to separate the sections
> of a path. When quoting URLs the correct character is the forward-slash.
> Therefore the webpage should be http://www.aplteam.de/ Another example
> of a small thing which can make a difference though...

> All in all, I am really impressed by what you have done and how you have
> documented it. Thanks a lot for sharing it with the rest of the
> community.
> --

> Homepage: currently offline

> <<<Akane no iinazuke! ---
>    Akane's fiance!>>>



Sun, 20 Feb 2005 02:40:48 GMT  
 APL Objects: DCOs (Dyalog Component Objects)
I doubt there is a right answer.
Problems:
Microsoft code
APL Implementation

And perhaps of more signifigance unbelievable user customization

For example I'm using a high resolution thinkpad (1600 x 1200) and custom
font size of 150%
This combination creates problems for every vendor's code

Brent Rowell


Quote:
> Use 24 by 80 pixels, and you won't be shot! :)

> 24 by 100 or more is OK for wider texts.

> 24 by 60 is a minimum, should be used with caution.

> I can think of only one case where the button may be narrower: 3 dots on
it.
> / Tomas



> > > At http:\\www.aplteam.de you will find a significant number of APL
> > > objects. Every DCO offered at the download page is free and solves a
> > > typical every-day-task. Some of them are relatively small like
> > > #.Registry or #.WinFile. Some of them, however, are very large and
> > > powerful like #.Dlgs and #.TableEdit.

> > This stuff is quite amazing. I'll surely spend more time looking at the
> > content of the workspaces. The first comment though is based on skin
> > feeling. I opened the sample application and up came a window with a
> > tip: the "Close" button was too small, to the point the first and the
> > last characters were clipped. Also I noted in the code that in a lot of
> > places the font "MS Sans Serif" is hard-encoded. This is not very user
> > friendly... To anybody who decides to start GUI development I recommend
> > the reading of this page: http://www.iarchitect.com/mshame.htm which is
> > quite good and eye-opening. Also, to avoid the creation of GUI
> > interfaces which would look odd in the Windows world (and would push APL
> > in a corner), I also strongly recommend the reading of
> > http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/dnwue/html/welcome.asp?frame=tru
> > e
> > I am sure I found somewhere a list of recommendations about the size of
> > the buttons and labels and their alignment, but I cannot find it now.
> > For example: in the proposed package the dialogues for "Yes/No",
> > "OK/Cancel" are not the so called "Common dialogues" but are
> > hand-crafted. They look really strange, I am afraid. And to a casual
> > user they would look really odd, possibly to the point of resulting
> > disturbing... These are my opinions, of course and should be taken
> > lightly...

> > By the way: backslashes are used by Microsoft to separate the sections
> > of a path. When quoting URLs the correct character is the forward-slash.
> > Therefore the webpage should be http://www.aplteam.de/ Another example
> > of a small thing which can make a difference though...

> > All in all, I am really impressed by what you have done and how you have
> > documented it. Thanks a lot for sharing it with the rest of the
> > community.
> > --

> > Homepage: currently offline

> > <<<Akane no iinazuke! ---
> >    Akane's fiance!>>>



Sun, 20 Feb 2005 06:10:17 GMT  
 APL Objects: DCOs (Dyalog Component Objects)
Some further comments:

Quote:

>>At http:\\www.aplteam.de you will find a significant number of APL
>>objects. Every DCO offered at the download page is free and solves a
>>typical every-day-task. Some of them are relatively small like
>>#.Registry or #.WinFile. Some of them, however, are very large and
>>powerful like #.Dlgs and #.TableEdit.

> This stuff is quite amazing. ...

I'm sure it is, but I'll have to take Stefano's word for it, as I cannot read it!

Quote:
> By the way: backslashes are used by Microsoft to separate the sections
> of a path. When quoting URLs the correct character is the forward-slash...

And this is why not. Possibly IE will happily obtain the web pages from these urls, but as
far as Netscape on Solaris is concerned, they are all errors. Even if I type in the base
url correctly, all the links are still errors.

I'm not sure that Stefano is quite right though: I think that the MS operating system
kernels will accept either / or \ as the path separator, but the command interpreter will
only accept \, reserving / as a "command option indicator". This is the reason why Dyalog
APL for MS systems will accept either of these symbols (please correct me if I'm wrong
here). Unix-based shells (sh, ksh, csh, bash, etc) and languages (C, C++, perl, python,
etc) use - as the "command option indicator" and \ as the "escape" character which adds or
removes (depending on context) special meaning to/from the next character, leaving / as
the only path separator.

--
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GO/! d- s++:+ a+ C++(++++) US++++$ UB++ U*++ P+++ L+++ E--- W+++ N++ w--- O-
M+ V- PS+ PE+ Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X R* tv+ b+ DI++ D G e(*) h++/-- r+++ y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

-----------------------------------------------------
Bob Hoekstra:   APL & Unix Consultant
Tele:           +44 (0)1483 771028
                 http://www.HoekstraSystems.com

-----------------------------------------------------



Sun, 20 Feb 2005 08:29:05 GMT  
 APL Objects: DCOs (Dyalog Component Objects)
Stefano,

things are much more complex than you might thougt....

1.
There are a number of VERY good reasons to circumvent the usage of
standard message boxes. First of all, the are really modal - nothing
will run until the msgbox is closed. Second, you cannot influence the
position on the screen. Third, you cannot specify a font to be used.
There are some more, but less important topics. And what is odd or
not: hmmmmm...

Take a look at http:\\aplteam.de\TOC\hp2down\Dlgs_e.htm and compare
the appearance with standard msgboxes - what is wrong with this?!

However, if you use non-standard Windows settings, you might have to
pass this or that parameter.

2.
No font is never hard-coded nowhere in the software. MS Sans Serif is
used as a standard - that's all. You can change this to every font and
size you want, for all calls with one single definition, or separately
when a single module is called. Furthermore, you can easily use
different fonts for different "classes" of input controls (Buttons,
Edit controls, Grid Controls, Labels, Tips, ...) See the documentation
(Appendix C, "Fonts and everything").



Tue, 22 Feb 2005 00:25:53 GMT  
 APL Objects: DCOs (Dyalog Component Objects)

Quote:
> Take a look at http:\\aplteam.de\TOC\hp2down\Dlgs_e.htm and compare
> the appearance with standard msgboxes - what is wrong with this?!

The last one, for instance: http://aplteam.de/pictures/ErrMsg01.gif
The "OK" button is left-aligned and not centered. The Icon does not have
text flowing on it's right but underneath it.

Quote:
> However, if you use non-standard Windows settings, you might have to
> pass this or that parameter.

My settings are standard. I use the normal sized font setting.

Quote:
> 2.
> No font is never hard-coded nowhere in the software. MS Sans Serif is
> used as a standard - that's all. You can change this to every font and
> size you want, for all calls with one single definition, or separately
> when a single module is called. Furthermore, you can easily use
> different fonts for different "classes" of input controls (Buttons,
> Edit controls, Grid Controls, Labels, Tips, ...) See the
> documentation (Appendix C, "Fonts and everything").

True. But the fact that you create several of the controls specifying
the font "MS Sans Serif" (at least in the demo application, I haven't
looked at the source code of the single DCOs... they might be more
up-to-date) defeats the Windows standard setting. Under Windows XP the
standard font is not "MS Sans Serif" but "Tahoma".

Anyway, having written complex GUIs before (in Dyalog APL) I know it's
hard to please every user. Actually, impossible.
--

Homepage: currently offline
<<<There was a point to this story, but it has temporarily escaped the
   chronicler's mind. --- The Best Quotes from The Hitchhiker's guide to

   the Galaxy>>>



Tue, 22 Feb 2005 15:49:04 GMT  
 APL Objects: DCOs (Dyalog Component Objects)

Quote:

> ...
> Take a look at http:\\aplteam.de\TOC\hp2down\Dlgs_e.htm and compare
> the appearance with standard msgboxes - what is wrong with this?!
> ...

I'd love to, but I cannot because you insist on using \ when you should be using /

HTML is not DOS

--
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GO/! d- s++:+ a+ C++(++++) US++++$ UB++ U*++ P+++ L+++ E--- W+++ N++ w--- O-
M+ V- PS+ PE+ Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X R* tv+ b+ DI++ D G e(*) h++/-- r+++ y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

-----------------------------------------------------
Bob Hoekstra:   APL & Unix Consultant
Tele:           +44 (0)1483 771028
                 http://www.HoekstraSystems.com

-----------------------------------------------------



Wed, 23 Feb 2005 08:00:10 GMT  
 
 [ 8 post ] 

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