APL for Linux? 
Author Message
 APL for Linux?

Is there an APL complete with symbols available for Linux?
--

4421 Myrtle Avenue                                              K6PWY
Long Beach, California 90807                            (562)989-9413



Thu, 30 Dec 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 APL for Linux?

Quote:

> Is there an APL complete with symbols available for Linux?

If there is, it's well-hidden.  I've looked from time to time and not
found one, and the usual search tools turn up J but not "classical" APL
when asked to look for 'APL' and 'linux'.

//  m



Fri, 31 Dec 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 APL for Linux?

Quote:


> > Is there an APL complete with symbols available for Linux?

> If there is, it's well-hidden.  I've looked from time to time and not
> found one, and the usual search tools turn up J but not "classical" APL
> when asked to look for 'APL' and 'linux'.

> //  m

I have used APL*PLUS, APL*PLUS II, and APL*PLUS III. Too bad there isn't
something usable with Linux. I just downloaded "J" and am shuddering at
the thought of having to learn a new language.

Jack
--

4421 Myrtle Avenue                                              K6PWY
Long Beach, California 90807                            (562)989-9413



Fri, 31 Dec 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 APL for Linux?


Quote:
> Too bad there isn't something usable with Linux.
> I just downloaded "J" and am shuddering at
> the thought of having to learn a new language.

Here is one of the first reasons I started to look seriously at J
Because you can use it anywhere.

It will be interesting to hear from you in a few weeks when you
have started to feel comfortable with J and then you will wonder
how you have been able to do without it for all those years.

I congratulate you on your choice of Linux and J.

I have been sort of trying to get Linux going to be able to
run J on it but I keep putting it off on a backburner. It is just
too much to do to install this Linux business. Way to much
choices and reading before you can even start to load the
stuff on the machine. I have only tried Linux on somebody
elses machine and it is not the same thing.

Linux and J should be standard on all PCs.
/Gosi



Sat, 01 Jan 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 APL for Linux?



Quote:
> What introductory texts would you recommend since there is no session
> manager available for Linux?

This ought to be amusing

Tony



Sat, 01 Jan 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 APL for Linux?

Quote:

> I congratulate you on your choice of Linux and J.

> I have been sort of trying to get Linux going to be able to
> run J on it but I keep putting it off on a backburner. It is just
> too much to do to install this Linux business. Way to much
> choices and reading before you can even start to load the
> stuff on the machine. I have only tried Linux on somebody
> elses machine and it is not the same thing.

> Linux and J should be standard on all PCs.
> /Gosi

Gosi:
I notice that "J" can be run in a non-interactive or commandline mode.
This gives it a real advantage in that it can be more easily interfaced
with other languages such as Perl or Python.

What introductory texts would you recommend since there is no session
manager available for Linux?
--

4421 Myrtle Avenue                                              K6PWY
Long Beach, California 90807                            (562)989-9413



Sat, 01 Jan 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 APL for Linux?

Quote:

> Is there an APL complete with symbols available for Linux?

Not that I know of. I have been pining for just this, but the best I've
been able to get is APL/11, a pretty brain-dead APL.

--
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.1
GO/! d- s++:+ a+ C++(++++) USBVLHI*++++$ P+ L++ E--- W++ N++ w--- O- V-
PS+
PE- Y+ PGP- t+ 5++ X+ R* tv+ b+ DI++ D G e(*) h++/-- r+++ y?
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

-----------------------------------------------------
Bob Hoekstra:   APL & Unix Consultant
                http://www.khamsin.demon.co.uk


-----------------------------------------------------



Sun, 02 Jan 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 APL for Linux?


Quote:
>I notice that "J" can be run in a non-interactive or commandline mode.
> This gives it a real advantage in that it can be more easily interfaced
> with other languages such as Perl or Python.

> What introductory texts would you recommend since there is no session
> manager available for Linux?

--
As I said before myself then I am, unfortunately, not yet a Linux user.

Because the J studio and the Help files in Windows are REALLY quite
excellent my recommendation is to have a small PC where you can
have windows to run and display the helps.

If you have seen C++ version 5 then you will have noticed that they use
HTML for their documentation there. I would NOT be surprised that you
will one day get J documentation in HTML format and then you will be
able to read them equally easily in Linux as in windows. I am guessing.

Documentation is a key to success in this business. Look at the documentation
you get with VB and VC. Hundreds of megabytes !!!!

As they say quantity is not always quality. It is not the size that counts. It is the speed.
You have really speedy development in J and the execution of the code is also speedy.
The size of the documentation is not very big.
/Gosi



Sun, 02 Jan 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 APL for Linux?

Quote:
Jack L. Owens writes:
>I notice that "J" can be run in a non-interactive or commandline mode.
>This gives it a real advantage in that it can be more easily interfaced
>with other languages such as Perl or Python.

>What introductory texts would you recommend since there is no session
>manager available for Linux?

There is a simple session manager in Linux, so you could learn
J using it. But for a newcomer to J, you are best off learning
with the Windows system, which has a much nicer session manager,
as well as online documentation, scripts, demos and tutorials.
You can use an evaluation copy for this purpose.

I suggest you start by going through the Primer.



Sun, 02 Jan 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 APL for Linux?

Quote:

> Jack L. Owens writes:

> >I notice that "J" can be run in a non-interactive or commandline mode.
> >This gives it a real advantage in that it can be more easily interfaced
> >with other languages such as Perl or Python.

> >What introductory texts would you recommend since there is no session
> >manager available for Linux?

> There is a simple session manager in Linux, so you could learn
> J using it. But for a newcomer to J, you are best off learning
> with the Windows system, which has a much nicer session manager,
> as well as online documentation, scripts, demos and tutorials.
> You can use an evaluation copy for this purpose.

> I suggest you start by going through the Primer.

I purchased a license for the linux version of "J" along with the 4 book
package offered on their web site. I am trying to get away from having
to boot up WINDOWS every time I want to use APL or some other WINDOWS
software. I guess I'll try downloading the "J" WINDOWS version and try
it with "wabi" (a unix WINDOWS emulator). APL*PLUS III won't run with
"wabi". APL*PLUS will run in "dosemu" but some of the key bindings don't
work correctly.
--

4421 Myrtle Avenue                                              K6PWY
Long Beach, California 90807                            (562)989-9413


Sun, 02 Jan 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 APL for Linux?

For what it's worth, willows window api compatability package is now
freely available for linux.  See www.willows.com for more details.

Near as I can tell, there's no strong technical reason why j's session
manager couldn't run under linux.

--
Raul



Sun, 02 Jan 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 APL for Linux?



: What introductory texts would you recommend since there is no session
: manager available for Linux?

I haven't used J on Linux; I use and am learning it under NT.  

I have a couple of suggestions, based on my experience (with all due
apologies to those at whom I privately expressed frustration at reading
early J material that said basically the same thing).

I started to learn J in the early days by trying to read an early version
of the Dictionary and An Introduction to J, etc. without the benefit of a
computer to try things on.  It was fascinating, but I didn't really learn
much without the feedback provided by the interaction with the language.

Later, I bought release 3 and got the Primer, Introduction and Dictionary,
User Manual, and Phrase Book.  With a number of false starts (some of which
I am still correcting), I would suggest the following:

    Buy those books.  (I like the books better than the on-line
    documentation under Windows, since I can flip paper pages faster than I
    can flip pages on the screen.)  The Primer is a real aid to getting
    started.  

    Start by working through the Primer, skipping those few exercises which
    are Windows specific (or modifying them to work under Linux, if you're
    so inclined).

    Start working through the User Manual and Section 1 of the Dictionary.

    In all cases, work through the exercises with a computer at hand.  Try
    out stuff and really understand what happens.

    Buy a copy of the J Conference Proceedings from 1996 (and presumably
    the proceedings from this year's APL97, too).  It was only by reading
    example code in the J Conference Proceedings that I discovered the
    final bits of how to make ODBC work.  While that's not terribly useful
    for Linux work, other examples may indeed help.  For me, reading and
    trying example code has helped a lot.

If that sounds like what Eric suggests in the Primer, it should; it's
pretty close.  I made the mistake of trying to do a moderate sized
application using OLE, ODBC, and links to the OS all at once, and I made
the second mistake of thinking I could learn J as I implemented.  Had I
backed up and taken this approach (work through their examples and
tutorials, with an emphasis on trying things on the computer), I think I
would have been much further along.  

If you are already proficient in APL, that should help.  I was only
somewhat familiar with APL, and I've found learning J to be more like
learning to become fluent conversationally in a foreign language than
learning the distinctive features of C after knowing Pascal (for example).
That is, it requires more doing and less reading, and the key seems to be
to begin to think in J, not to translate into J.

Since it sounds like you know APL, you should have an easier time of it
than I did.  I hope this didn't sound too simplistic.  The books are good,
and the lessons I learned are real, at least for me.

Bill

--
Bill Harris                             Hewlett-Packard Co.
R&D Engineering Processes               Lake Stevens Division

phone: (425) 335-2200                   8600 Soper Hill Road
fax: (425) 335-2828                     Everett, WA 98205-1298



Sun, 02 Jan 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 APL for Linux?

Quote:



> : What introductory texts would you recommend since there is no session
> : manager available for Linux?

> I haven't used J on Linux; I use and am learning it under NT.

> I have a couple of suggestions, based on my experience (with all due
> apologies to those at whom I privately expressed frustration at reading
> early J material that said basically the same thing).

> I started to learn J in the early days by trying to read an early version
> of the Dictionary and An Introduction to J, etc. without the benefit of a
> computer to try things on.  It was fascinating, but I didn't really learn
> much without the feedback provided by the interaction with the language.

> Later, I bought release 3 and got the Primer, Introduction and Dictionary,
> User Manual, and Phrase Book.  With a number of false starts (some of which
> I am still correcting), I would suggest the following:

>     Buy those books.  (I like the books better than the on-line
>     documentation under Windows, since I can flip paper pages faster than I
>     can flip pages on the screen.)  The Primer is a real aid to getting
>     started.

>     Start by working through the Primer, skipping those few exercises which
>     are Windows specific (or modifying them to work under Linux, if you're
>     so inclined).

>     Start working through the User Manual and Section 1 of the Dictionary.

>     In all cases, work through the exercises with a computer at hand.  Try
>     out stuff and really understand what happens.

>     Buy a copy of the J Conference Proceedings from 1996 (and presumably
>     the proceedings from this year's APL97, too).  It was only by reading
>     example code in the J Conference Proceedings that I discovered the
>     final bits of how to make ODBC work.  While that's not terribly useful
>     for Linux work, other examples may indeed help.  For me, reading and
>     trying example code has helped a lot.

> If that sounds like what Eric suggests in the Primer, it should; it's
> pretty close.  I made the mistake of trying to do a moderate sized
> application using OLE, ODBC, and links to the OS all at once, and I made
> the second mistake of thinking I could learn J as I implemented.  Had I
> backed up and taken this approach (work through their examples and
> tutorials, with an emphasis on trying things on the computer), I think I
> would have been much further along.

> If you are already proficient in APL, that should help.  I was only
> somewhat familiar with APL, and I've found learning J to be more like
> learning to become fluent conversationally in a foreign language than
> learning the distinctive features of C after knowing Pascal (for example).
> That is, it requires more doing and less reading, and the key seems to be
> to begin to think in J, not to translate into J.

> Since it sounds like you know APL, you should have an easier time of it
> than I did.  I hope this didn't sound too simplistic.  The books are good,
> and the lessons I learned are real, at least for me.

> Bill

> --
> Bill Harris                             Hewlett-Packard Co.
> R&D Engineering Processes               Lake Stevens Division

> phone: (425) 335-2200                   8600 Soper Hill Road
> fax: (425) 335-2828                     Everett, WA 98205-1298

Bill:
It took me a long time to get used to APL after having programmed in C,
Pascal, and assembly. It took a whole different mind set. I'm hoping
some of the APL features are available in J. That's likely since Iverson
has been connected with both.

Your advice seems reasonable.
--

4421 Myrtle Avenue                                              K6PWY
Long Beach, California 90807                            (562)989-9413



Mon, 03 Jan 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 
 [ 13 post ] 

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