APLIWIN and J Release 2 
Author Message
 APLIWIN and J Release 2

Hi folks!
Which of the two APLIWIN and J release 2 is a better tool for developing windows applications. I assume that since they are both products of ISI they should have the same features. I program in APL but am willing to learn J if J release 2 is superior.

Neeraj Gupta



Sat, 15 Mar 1997 06:48:46 GMT  
 APLIWIN and J Release 2

Quote:
>Hi folks!
>Which of the two APLIWIN and J release 2 is a better tool for developing
>windows applications. I assume that since they are both products of ISI they
>should have the same features. I program in APL but am willing to learn J if J
>release 2 is superior.

>Neeraj Gupta

I am not sure that the new development tools included in J release 2 are
already (or even will be) implemented in APLWIN.

J release 2 brings a lot of new tools and a completely new environment. Very
user friendly.


is part of Strand Software (which assures the marketing of the ISI products).

Alain Delmotte

Avenue du Marathon, 6
B1348 Louvain-la-Neuve
BELGIUM
telephone :    32-10-45 11 92
fax :          32-10-45 23 26



Sun, 16 Mar 1997 17:47:30 GMT  
 APLIWIN and J Release 2
Quote:

>Hi folks!
>Which of the two APLIWIN and J release 2 is a better tool for developing windows applications. I assume that since they are both products of ISI they should have the same features. I program in APL but am willing to learn J if J release 2 is superior.

I recommend J for two reasons:

a. It'll run a lot faster than APL.
b. You can use your favorite text editor, print tools, previewers, etc.,
   with J scripts. With APL, you're stuck with whatever editor is
   provided by the vendor, or you have to write your own.
   Also, you can use "grep" to search for program text, also impossible
    with APL.
Bob



Sun, 16 Mar 1997 00:32:09 GMT  
 APLIWIN and J Release 2

Quote:
Neeraj Gupta writes:

>Hi folks!
>Which of the two APLIWIN and J release 2 is a better tool for developing
>windows applications. I assume that since they are both products of ISI they
>should have the same features. I program in APL but am willing to learn J if J
>release 2 is superior.

>Neeraj Gupta

 My understanding is that the most recent version of ISI APL does not
 support VBX controls or ODBC database access.

 In an August 15th 1994 newsletter Eric Iverson wrote :

    For all APL users, we will continue to supply and support APL, however
    there are no plans for future upgrades.  This may be a good opportunity to
    take a look at J and find out where we are so e{*filter*}d about this new
    release.

 He also wrote :

    We expect to deliver a similar product (to J release 2.0) native
    to OS/2 shortly afterwards.

-e



Mon, 17 Mar 1997 00:56:09 GMT  
 APLIWIN and J Release 2

Quote:

>Which of the two APLIWIN and J release 2 is a better tool for developing windows applications. I assume that since they are both products of ISI they should have the same features. I program in APL but am willing to learn J if J release 2 is superior.

They're not identical, and the answer is highly dependent on your needs. The
toolkit in J 2.0 is a later and more evolved version of what's found in
APLIWIN; I can't comment intelligently on the J 2 kit as I haven't used it,
but gather it is capable of calling Visual Basic objects and the like.

The APLIWIN toolkit can do the usual Windows screen management stuff rather
nicely, talk to e.g. Excel via DDE (you can fire up Excel from APL to do
snappy charts or call an APL function from an Excel macro to do some complex
APL-oriented calc). APLIWIN is basically frozen; even so, I love it and will
keep it because I'm an APL bigot and because it happens to be highly
compatible with my own company's SHARP APL products.

If you're in a hurry, have relatively straightforward needs and know APL,
APLIWIN is a really nice tool. If you are willing to invest some time in
learning a new environment (the mindset is the same but the syntax ain't)
then perhaps J 2.0 is the way to go, as its toolkit is a bit more advanced
and ISI is concentrating its efforts on J at the moment.

 Soliton Associates Ltd - speaking for myself, not Soliton



Mon, 17 Mar 1997 07:43:09 GMT  
 APLIWIN and J Release 2

Quote:


>>   Also, you can use "grep" to search for program text, also impossible
>>    with APL.
>>Bob

>it's not impossible. here at morgan stanley, grep is the
>standard tool for searching program text, even with apl characters.
>we made the xterms work with the apl character set, as well as
>emacs. i would guess it was hard, but certainly possible.

Setting up APL fonts is tedious but relatively easy--one would "acquire"
an APL font in BDF (text) format and change the character codes.  That's
pretty much it.  One could then view APL code, or use X window's cut-and-paste
to "edit" or "grep" APL text.  The real problem is setting up the keyboard.  
If the xmodmap program is buggy or poorly documented, forget it (AIX AIX AIX).
I mean, it either turns to be quite easy, or just about impossible.  Emacs is
pretty good at by-passing X's keymap--but then one has to like emacs a lot...




Wed, 19 Mar 1997 04:24:43 GMT  
 APLIWIN and J Release 2

Quote:


>>   Also, you can use "grep" to search for program text, also impossible
>>    with APL.
>>Bob

>it's not impossible. here at morgan stanley, grep is the
>standard tool for searching program text, even with apl characters.
>we made the xterms work with the apl character set, as well as
>emacs. i would guess it was hard, but certainly possible.

>mike

Ditto here. I can use the GNU grep on files with APL2 characters in them,
looking for APL2 strings. You need to hack the resource files containing
the VIO fonts and the keyboard device driver. With PM windows (i.e., with
Postcript fonts) it's trivial. I am using OS/2 but it would work under
DOS, too. There is a very complete port of emacs to OS/2 and I am pretty
sure I could coax it to work with APL2, too, if I were using it.

As I see it, the real problem with using non-APL tools against APL program
files is *not* the funny set of characters but the pain of having to cross
workspace borders since this is where APL functions and data usually live.

Olivier Lefevre
NYU Medical School, NYC



Wed, 19 Mar 1997 04:04:30 GMT  
 APLIWIN and J Release 2

Quote:
>   Also, you can use "grep" to search for program text, also impossible
>    with APL.
>Bob

it's not impossible. here at morgan stanley, grep is the
standard tool for searching program text, even with apl characters.
we made the xterms work with the apl character set, as well as
emacs. i would guess it was hard, but certainly possible.

mike



Wed, 19 Mar 1997 01:09:32 GMT  
 APLIWIN and J Release 2

Quote:

> it's not impossible. here at morgan stanley, grep is the
> standard tool for searching program text, even with apl characters.
> we made the xterms work with the apl character set, as well as
> emacs. i would guess it was hard, but certainly possible.

A few further points:

(1) The above was possible with stock versions of grep, xterm, and emacs-19.
    That is, only configuration/resource files were required for emacs and
    xterm.  Emacs-18 required a freely available patch designed for ISO-8859
    support.

(2) Within morgan.com, Apl characters could be transported over SMTP (mail)
    and netnews, again with stock versions of sendmail and C-NEWS.

(3) Probably more challenging were the X Window System and postscript Apl
    fonts.
--



Wed, 19 Mar 1997 01:48:10 GMT  
 APLIWIN and J Release 2
Quote:


>it's not impossible. here at morgan stanley, grep is the
>standard tool for searching program text, even with apl characters.
>we made the xterms work with the apl character set, as well as
>emacs. i would guess it was hard, but certainly possible.

                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

As opposed to "trivial", is my point.
It seems dumber to me every day that APLers have to reinvent not just
the wheels, but have to pave the roads as well. I'm STILL trying to
get Vendor X APL running on my X-term. It only took a month to find
a sysadmin who knew WHY the fonts weren't being accepted. Now, all
I have to do is to edit the keyboard entries.. Lessee, that's 90-some
keys times shift,noshift,alt,ctrl...

Bob



Thu, 20 Mar 1997 08:45:10 GMT  
 
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