APL fonts vs Netscape 
Author Message
 APL fonts vs Netscape

I'm running Netscape 4.06 under NT 4.0/sp1. If I go to EEM's
Roll article from http://www.*-*-*.com/ ,

it fails to display the APL font properly. It ignores my APLHELP font,
instead choosing the first in the list (whose name escapes me, but I
don't have it).

IE works properly here, picking APLHELP font.

Any idea what's wrong with Netscape here? Thanks. Bob



Sun, 08 Apr 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 APL fonts vs Netscape

Quote:

>I'm running Netscape 4.06 under NT 4.0/sp1. If I go to EEM's
>Roll article from http://www.acm.org/sigapl,

The precise URL being:

    http://www.acm.org/sigapl/qqv8n3p42.htm

 for those who do not recognize the EEM reference.

Quote:
>it fails to display the APL font properly. It ignores my APLHELP font,
>instead choosing the first in the list (whose name escapes me, but I
>don't have it).  

that would be APLNet...

Are you using the "APL Font Required" box in the top right corner of the page
as the measure of failure.  Does it show ANY APL characters? Also, is this
a display or a print problem or both?

Quote:
>IE works properly here, picking APLHELP font.

First guesses:
 Have you reloaded the page, since it doesn't appear to rerender when new
fonts are installed.
 Failing that, have you restarted Netscape?

Quote:
>Any idea what's wrong with Netscape here? Thanks. Bob

A related point: the URL

http://www.acm.org/sigapl/random.htm

has a problem in the other direction, where the <PRE> tag in MSIE overrides
the <font...> tag, correctible by putting the FONT inside the PRE.

--
|\/| Randy A MacDonald       |"We ARE the weirdos, mister!"

     BSc(Math) UNBF '83      | APL: If you can say it, it's done.

     I use Real J            | Also http://www.godin.com/godin/
------------------------------------------------<-NTP>----{ gnat }-



Mon, 09 Apr 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 APL fonts vs Netscape
Quote:


> >I'm running Netscape 4.06 under NT 4.0/sp1. If I go to EEM's

 Roll article from http://www.acm.org/sigapl,

Quote:
> The precise URL being:
>     http://www.acm.org/sigapl/qqv8n3p42.htm

i have the same difficulty with NS4.5. Editing the page
so APLHELP is first resolves the problem, for my setup.

And yes, Randy, APLHELP shows up just fine on the test page:
http://www.acm.org/sigapl/font.htm

IE4 does the resolution properly on my NT system.

Maybe NS5 ...?? i suppose one of the NS mailing NGs...
netscape.public.mozilla.* originating from secnews.netscape.com
might be more informative.

greg heil

http://www.scn.org/tl/anvil
Please note above permanent mailto, my ISP changes very soon...



Mon, 09 Apr 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 APL fonts vs Netscape


Quote:
> Any idea what's wrong with Netscape here? Thanks. Bob

For some reason, Netscape thinks that the APLNET font is available,
either on your system or as a downloadable font.  Be aware that
Netscape uses a PFR (Portable Font Resource) file for its downloadable
fonts.  These PFRs are claimed to be more compact than TTF files, and
will remain in the browser's cache unless purged.

http://developer.netscape.com:80/viewsource/goodman_fonts.html has
got an article about writing HTML to use downloadable fonts for both IE
and Netscape browsers.  (See "The Cross-Platform Situation" at the end.)
Perhaps the authors could make use of this to provide something readable
on non-Windows based platforms (like me) and/or systems that do not have
APL fonts installed?

http://developer.netscape.com:80/viewsource/wyner_dynfonts.html
has got an example of using dynamic fonts, if anyone is interested
in experimenting.

--
David B. White
IBM Microelectronics, Circuit Verification & Design Tools

Phone: 802-769-5671     (TieLine: 446)     Fax: 802-769-5722



Mon, 09 Apr 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 APL fonts vs Netscape

Quote:

>A related point: the URL

>http://www.acm.org/sigapl/random.htm

>has a problem in the other direction, where the  tag in MSIE overrides
>the <font...> tag, correctible by putting the FONT inside the PRE.

>--
>|\/| Randy A MacDonald       |"We ARE the weirdos, mister!"

Might I suggest that this and all similr problems be reported to the webmaster
of the site involved, in addition to posting them here.  In this case, that

has time to read c.l.a on a regular basis.

                 -David E. Siegel



Mon, 09 Apr 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 APL fonts vs Netscape

Quote:



> > Any idea what's wrong with Netscape here? Thanks. Bob
> For some reason, Netscape thinks that the APLNET font is available,

 either on your system or as a downloadable font.  Be aware that
 Netscape uses a PFR (Portable Font Resource) file for its downloadable
 fonts.  These PFRs are claimed to be more compact than TTF files, and
 will remain in the browser's cache unless purged.

Clearing cache does nothing, my system has nothing named aplnet
on it, the file
        http://www.acm.org/sigapl/qqv8n3p42.htm
has no fontdef tag in it, nor any reference to a .pfr file...
and the face= tags look perfectly legal:
<font face="APLNET, APLPLUS, APLHELP, DYALOG STD">blah blah</font>

Quote:
> http://developer.netscape.com:80/viewsource/goodman_fonts.html
> http://developer.netscape.com:80/viewsource/wyner_dynfonts.html

Very interesting!

greg heil

http://www.scn.org/tl/anvil
Please note above permanent mailto, my ISP changes very soon...
and don't blindly reply (or you get caught in the "no-spam" filter;)



Mon, 09 Apr 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 APL fonts vs Netscape

Quote:



> > >I'm running Netscape 4.06 under NT 4.0/sp1. If I go to EEM's
>  Roll article from http://www.acm.org/sigapl,

> > The precise URL being:
> >     http://www.acm.org/sigapl/qqv8n3p42.htm

> i have the same difficulty with NS4.5. Editing the page
> so APLHELP is first resolves the problem, for my setup.

> And yes, Randy, APLHELP shows up just fine on the test page:
> http://www.acm.org/sigapl/font.htm

> IE4 does the resolution properly on my NT system.

> Maybe NS5 ...?? i suppose one of the NS mailing NGs...
> netscape.public.mozilla.* originating from secnews.netscape.com
> might be more informative.

I'm *really* confused.

Looking at the source to the ACM's document, it says that 'if you want to read this,
you have to install these fonts', to paraphrase.  It provides links to each font, and
some example text that uses it in a <FONT> specification.

That FONT specification is not using any dynamic fonts spec I'm aware of, it's simply
specifying a face.

Installing the requested font face does indeed provide me with text on that page using
the requested font.

"Worksforme".

:plur,
Greg

  gblock.vcf
< 1K Download


Tue, 10 Apr 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 APL fonts vs Netscape


Quote:
> Clearing cache does nothing, my system has nothing named aplnet

I agree with your analysis of the HTML.  It looks like you've
uncovered a bug.  You might want to use
http://help.netscape.com/forms/bug-client.html to report it to
Netscape.

--
David B. White
IBM Microelectronics, Circuit Verification & Design Tools

Phone: 802-769-5671     (TieLine: 446)     Fax: 802-769-5722



Tue, 10 Apr 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 APL fonts vs Netscape

Quote:
>A related point: the URL
>http://www.acm.org/sigapl/random.htm
>has a problem in the other direction, where the  tag in MSIE overrides
>the <font...> tag, correctible by putting the FONT inside the PRE.

Thanks Randy for the catch.  I have very limited resources to test, so any
testing that you (and all APLers) do is fantastic.  It's amazing that it only
took 6 months to catch that error!  The fix is in place.

-michael



Tue, 10 Apr 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 APL fonts vs Netscape
Quote:




> > > >I'm running Netscape 4.06 under NT 4.0/sp1. If I go to EEM's

  Roll article from http://www.acm.org/sigapl,

Quote:
> > > The precise URL being:

     http://www.acm.org/sigapl/qqv8n3p42.htm

Quote:
> > i have the same difficulty with NS4.5. Editing the page

 so APLHELP is first resolves the problem, for my setup.

Quote:
> > And yes, Randy, APLHELP shows up just fine on the test page:

 http://www.acm.org/sigapl/font.htm

Quote:
> > IE4 does the resolution properly on my NT system.
> I'm *really* confused.
> Looking at the source to the ACM's document, it says that

 'if you want to read this, you have to install these fonts',
 to paraphrase.  It provides links to each font, and
 some example text that uses it in a <FONT> specification.

Quote:
> That FONT specification is not using any dynamic fonts spec

 I'm aware of, it's simply specifying a face.

Quote:
> Installing the requested font face does indeed provide me with

 text on that page using the requested font.

Quote:
>"Worksforme".

The way you describe it it might have. There is one crucial step
you may have overlooked: DO NOT install fonts 1 & 2 just font 3
(APLHELP) (be sure 1&2 are not in cache, system etc...)

If it still works for you, well, Bob, David & i (& presumably
others here on the C.L.A NG) have not isolated a _real_ problem
well enough to replicate... but NB

Quote:
> > Clearing cache does nothing, my system has nothing named aplnet

on it, the file
        http://www.acm.org/sigapl/qqv8n3p42.htm
has no fontdef tag in it, nor any reference to a .pfr file...
and the face= tags look perfectly legal:
<font face="APLNET, APLPLUS, APLHELP, DYALOG STD">blah blah</font>

Versions of NS mentioned with the problem so far are
NS4.06 under NT4/sp1 and NS4.5 under NT4/sp3

Thanks for your interest.

greg heil

http://www.scn.org/tl/anvil
Please note above permanent mailto, my ISP changes very soon...
and don't blindly reply (or you get caught in the "no-spam" filter;)



Tue, 10 Apr 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 APL fonts vs Netscape

Quote:

> The way you describe it it might have. There is one crucial step
> you may have overlooked: DO NOT install fonts 1 & 2 just font 3
> (APLHELP) (be sure 1&2 are not in cache, system etc...)

> If it still works for you, well, Bob, David & i (& presumably
> others here on the C.L.A NG) have not isolated a _real_ problem
> well enough to replicate... but NB

Well, no, it's replicable.  It's also very interesting, because it's just this font, it
would seem.

Quote:

> and the face= tags look perfectly legal:
> <font face="APLNET, APLPLUS, APLHELP, DYALOG STD">blah blah</font>

Okay.  So I had a play with this on 4.5.

When I installed APLPLUS, which is actually "APLPLUS Regular", I did indeed fail to load
it, and IE4 did indeed show it properly.

When I change that "APLPLUS" to "APLPLUS Regular", it still fails to load in 4.5, but it
still loads in IE4.

When I change that to "Arial Bold Regular", which I also have installed, 4.5 loads it, IE
doesn't.

When I change that to "Times New Roman", 4.5 and IE get it fine.

There's something deeper going on here; it's clear that there's a divergence, somewhere
along the road; some fundamental API difference.  Indeed, different fonts get loaded if I
select "Helvetica" - a font which doesn't exist, but is indeed aliased in the registry,
between IE4 and 4.5.

On one front, there's one different behavior:  IE won't load "Letter Gothic MT Bold
Oblique", and has problems with any font that lists that kind of thing.  4.5 will load the
proper type.  (Still modifying the second parameter, not the first)

That's probably related to the problem we're having.  We're obviously doing a more detailed
name check against the fonts, somehow.

Hell,{*filter*}that, set "APLPLUS" or "APLPLUS Regular" as the *only* font, and it still fails
to load in 4.5, and still loads in IE.  Definitely *not* an ordering issue, definitely a
font issue.  Something about that font is confusing us.

I've got a feeling there's something about the font itself that's causing the problem;
something about the naming, perhaps.  I think this gives the folks in WinFE enough to go
on.

I've got a feeling...  searching for a truetype "dump tool", but don't have one.  Grabbed a
demo copy of FontLab, looks like the names are fscked.  Font name is "APLPLUS-Regular",
full name is "APLPLUS Regular", note the difference.  Unable to save the fscking font in
the fscking demo version, so I can't fscking test if it fixes it.  Fsck.

Matter of fact, from looking at others, I know there's something fscked about it.  I have
the distinct feeling, at the bottom of my soul, that if you fix the font, you're good as
gold, folks, but I have no way of proving it; in the meantime, I'll try to wave this under
the eyes of someone who I know can help me find the right person to fix it.

Y'all have a nice day.  Original messages sent as attachment.  Dave, can you help me route
this?

Cheers,
Greg, the quicker picker upper.

[ Attached Message ]

From:
To:
Cc:
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:40:52 -0700
Local: Fri, Oct 23 1998 4:40 pm
Subject: Re: APL fonts vs Netscape
Quote:




> > > >I'm running Netscape 4.06 under NT 4.0/sp1. If I go to EEM's

  Roll article from http://www.*-*-*.com/ ,

Quote:
> > > The precise URL being:

      http://www.*-*-*.com/

Quote:
> > i have the same difficulty with NS4.5. Editing the page

 so APLHELP is first resolves the problem, for my setup.

Quote:
> > And yes, Randy, APLHELP shows up just fine on the test page:

  http://www.*-*-*.com/

Quote:
> > IE4 does the resolution properly on my NT system.
> I'm *really* confused.
> Looking at the source to the ACM's document, it says that

 'if you want to read this, you have to install these fonts',
 to paraphrase.  It provides links to each font, and
 some example text that uses it in a <FONT> specification.

Quote:
> That FONT specification is not using any dynamic fonts spec

 I'm aware of, it's simply specifying a face.

Quote:
> Installing the requested font face does indeed provide me with

 text on that page using the requested font.

Quote:
>"Worksforme".

The way you describe it it might have. There is one crucial step
you may have overlooked: DO NOT install fonts 1 & 2 just font 3
(APLHELP) (be sure 1&2 are not in cache, system etc...)

If it still works for you, well, Bob, David & i (& presumably
others here on the C.L.A NG) have not isolated a _real_ problem
well enough to replicate... but NB

Quote:
> > Clearing cache does nothing, my system has nothing named aplnet

on it, the file
        http://www.*-*-*.com/
has no fontdef tag in it, nor any reference to a .pfr file...
and the face= tags look perfectly legal:
<font face="APLNET, APLPLUS, APLHELP, DYALOG STD">blah blah</font>

Versions of NS mentioned with the problem so far are
NS4.06 under NT4/sp1 and NS4.5 under NT4/sp3

Thanks for your interest.

greg heil

http://www.*-*-*.com/
Please note above permanent mailto, my ISP changes very soon...
and don't blindly reply (or you get caught in the "no-spam" filter;)

  gblock.vcf
< 1K Download


Wed, 11 Apr 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 
 [ 11 post ] 

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