If you had to move from VB6... 
Author Message
 If you had to move from VB6...

In another thread, someone said that compared to VB Fred, VB6 was
pathetic.

This low attempt to turn me from my private choice of language slid
off my back like water on a duck.

However, it did pique my curiosity.

If I had to move from VB6, which language would I choose.
Which language would most resemble it in IDE, ease of coding and, yes,
RAD quality.

I would accept a learning curve about the same I had to go through
with VB6. About a hundred hours to get a simple database program
running (from picking up the course book) and about a year or two to
get moderatly proficient in it.

I came up with RealBasic, delphi (though I heard it's on the way out),
maybe C# (but I would try to keep away from M$ stuff), and not Java.

What do you think ?



Fri, 03 Aug 2012 23:33:01 GMT  
 If you had to move from VB6...

VB.NET is easiest pick.  VB.NET is not VB(classic).

HOWEVER, I have found benefit from making a "clean break", and instead of
accidentally bringing any bad vb6 practices with you, going to C# is my
suggestion.

2 reasons.  Reason 1 is that most msdn code samples are in vb.net and c#.
So your famaliarity with vb will make seeing the C# sample "pop out" to you,
because you'll usually have the vb.net sitting right above it.
Reason 2 is that most microsoft internal development is done in C# now.

If you've ever attending TechEd or any other Microsoft event, you are hard
pressed to find any vb.net example in the presentations.

Check this:
http://www.codeproject.com/KB/dotnet/CSharpVersusVB.aspx

Do I agree 100% of it, maybe not.  However it is a good read to do as you
make YOUR decision on what to do.
Criticism's of the article are fine (from other posters).  But picking one
point and saying "that's stupid, disregard the entire article" is the ole
throw the baby out with the bath water.  I think the article above is a good
read to ~~assist you in making your decision, but not to make the decision
for you.

Good luck.  It's 2010.  It's time to move forward.

But VS2010/C# would be my suggestion (among the many different ones you
might receive).  VS2010 is only a few weeks off.  Its in RC mode right now
( Release Candidate ) which you can get from technet.microsoft.com


Quote:
> In another thread, someone said that compared to VB Fred, VB6 was
> pathetic.

> This low attempt to turn me from my private choice of language slid
> off my back like water on a duck.

> However, it did pique my curiosity.

> If I had to move from VB6, which language would I choose.
> Which language would most resemble it in IDE, ease of coding and, yes,
> RAD quality.

> I would accept a learning curve about the same I had to go through
> with VB6. About a hundred hours to get a simple database program
> running (from picking up the course book) and about a year or two to
> get moderatly proficient in it.

> I came up with RealBasic, Delphi (though I heard it's on the way out),
> maybe C# (but I would try to keep away from M$ stuff), and not Java.

> What do you think ?



Fri, 03 Aug 2012 23:56:24 GMT  
 If you had to move from VB6...

Quote:
> If I had to move from VB6, which language would I choose.
> Which language would most resemble it in IDE, ease of coding and, yes,
> RAD quality.

Not so much what I WOULD do but what I DID do was to move to C#. But then I
already had experience with C before VB, so it wasn't that much of a shock
to me.


Sat, 04 Aug 2012 00:10:08 GMT  
 If you had to move from VB6...

Quote:
> In another thread, someone said that compared to VB Fred, VB6 was
> pathetic.

Just so you understand - I in no way meant that VB6 overall was pathetic.  I
was only making reference to the particular features that were called out in
the post I responded to...

Quote:
> This low attempt to turn me from my private choice of language slid
> off my back like water on a duck.

> However, it did pique my curiosity.

> If I had to move from VB6, which language would I choose.
> Which language would most resemble it in IDE, ease of coding and, yes,
> RAD quality.

> I would accept a learning curve about the same I had to go through
> with VB6. About a hundred hours to get a simple database program
> running (from picking up the course book) and about a year or two to
> get moderatly proficient in it.

> I came up with RealBasic, Delphi (though I heard it's on the way out),
> maybe C# (but I would try to keep away from M$ stuff), and not Java.

> What do you think ?

Well personally, I moved years ago to C#.  But, if I was going non-MS, I would
go Java or C++.  If I wanted to stay with basic (unlikely), then I would look
at powerbasic.

--
Tom Shelton



Sat, 04 Aug 2012 00:30:04 GMT  
 If you had to move from VB6...

Quote:

> I came up with RealBasic, Delphi (though I heard it's on the way out),
> maybe C# (but I would try to keep away from M$ stuff), and not Java.

   Why maybe C# and not Java? C# was designed
to compete with Java. They're both semi-sandboxed,
OO, JIT-compiled systems running on a VM and
designed for server-side/intranet applets.

   Isn't the question, really, whether you want to go
along with a sandboxed OS -- Microsoft's planned future
of software as a service? Maybe a future where you
might shortly have to buy webhosting on Azure and
get approval in order for your software to run on
Windows? One can be for or against that, but it
seems important to go into it with eyes open. .Nxt
is the Java-fying of the Windows API. It's a radical
new direction.

   There have been several discussions of various
3rd-party Basics here in the past. I can never
keep track of them all, and most (including the
Linux-based attempts) seem to have the fatal flaw
that they see all Basic coders as glorified scripters
who need everything encased in safe wrappers. They
equate verbose code with stupidity. (What I like
to think of as "Perl syndrome". :)

   I think Nobody posted a comprehensive list at
one point. Maybe he'll share that again.



Sat, 04 Aug 2012 00:36:58 GMT  
 If you had to move from VB6...


Quote:
> Good luck.  It's 2010.  It's time to move forward.

I'd love to move forward, but dotnet doesn't take me in that direction.


Sat, 04 Aug 2012 00:41:58 GMT  
 If you had to move from VB6...

Quote:
> What do you think ?

KBasic is the closest to VB6 out there, but I am not sure how many are using
it now. It's 100% VB6 code compatible according to the author. It's written
in VC 2008. It uses Qt as GUI kit and it's multi platform open source, and
can create EXE's without dependency on any runtime. It will probably replace
VB6 after many start to use it or contribute to it's development. Because it
uses Qt as GUI, the hard part is converting VB6 forms. I haven't installed
it, so I don't know how easy to develop with it.

http://www.kbasic.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qt_%28framework%29

The site seems to be down at the moment, so here is the Internet Archive
version:

http://web.archive.org/web/20080507023915rn_1/www.kbasic.com/doku.php



Sat, 04 Aug 2012 00:48:08 GMT  
 If you had to move from VB6...

Quote:

>> I came up with RealBasic, Delphi (though I heard it's on the way out),
>> maybe C# (but I would try to keep away from M$ stuff), and not Java.

>    Why maybe C# and not Java? C# was designed
> to compete with Java. They're both semi-sandboxed,
> OO, JIT-compiled systems running on a VM and
> designed for server-side/intranet applets.

>    Isn't the question, really, whether you want to go
> along with a sandboxed OS -- Microsoft's planned future
> of software as a service? Maybe a future where you
> might shortly have to buy webhosting on Azure and
> get approval in order for your software to run on
> Windows? One can be for or against that, but it
> seems important to go into it with eyes open. .Nxt
> is the Java-fying of the Windows API. It's a radical
> new direction.

>    There have been several discussions of various
> 3rd-party Basics here in the past. I can never
> keep track of them all, and most (including the
> Linux-based attempts) seem to have the fatal flaw
> that they see all Basic coders as glorified scripters
> who need everything encased in safe wrappers. They
> equate verbose code with stupidity. (What I like
> to think of as "Perl syndrome". :)

>    I think Nobody posted a comprehensive list at
> one point. Maybe he'll share that again.

--
Tom Shelton


Sat, 04 Aug 2012 00:58:03 GMT  
 If you had to move from VB6...

Quote:

> VB.NET is easiest pick.  VB.NET is not VB(classic).

> HOWEVER, I have found benefit from making a "clean break", and instead of
> accidentally bringing any bad vb6 practices with you, going to C# is my
> suggestion.

> 2 reasons.  Reason 1 is that most msdn code samples are in vb.net and c#.
> So your famaliarity with vb will make seeing the C# sample "pop out" to you,
> because you'll usually have the vb.net sitting right above it.
> Reason 2 is that most microsoft internal development is done in C# now.

> If you've ever attending TechEd or any other Microsoft event, you are hard
> pressed to find any vb.net example in the presentations.

> Check this:
> http://www.codeproject.com/KB/dotnet/CSharpVersusVB.aspx

> Do I agree 100% of it, maybe not.  However it is a good read to do as you
> make YOUR decision on what to do.
> Criticism's of the article are fine (from other posters).  But picking one
> point and saying "that's stupid, disregard the entire article" is the ole
> throw the baby out with the bath water.  I think the article above is a good
> read to ~~assist you in making your decision, but not to make the decision
> for you.

Yeah...  Especially since as of C#4 (supported in VS2010) adds

        1) easier earlier binding via the dynamic keyword
        2) optional parameters (grrrrr!) - I've already updated our
           internal coding standards to disallow them in public interces

VS2008sp1 added background compilation for C# - the funny thing though is that it
doesn't seem to actually slow the C# ide down nearly as much as the vb
version...

--
Tom Shelton



Sat, 04 Aug 2012 01:50:34 GMT  
 If you had to move from VB6...

Quote:

> --
> Tom Shelton

  Do you realize how often you post nothing?
I'm never sure whether it's meant to be some
sort of Zennie trip, or whether you just get
so worked up that you forget to paste your
post. :)


Sat, 04 Aug 2012 01:57:24 GMT  
 If you had to move from VB6...
Since 75-80% of my work is now VB .NET... That's what I'd choose.  There are
lots of reasons, but the primary one is that it still is easiest for me to
use.

Dick

--
Richard Grier, Consultant, Hard & Software 12962 West Louisiana Avenue
Lakewood, CO 80228 303-986-2179 (voice) Homepage: www.hardandsoftware.net
Author of Visual Basic Programmer's Guide to Serial Communications, 4th
Edition ISBN 1-890422-28-2 (391 pages) published July 2004, Revised July
2006.



Sat, 04 Aug 2012 01:56:27 GMT  
 If you had to move from VB6...
The eternal sparkle of the clean zen post  ;-)

On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 08:58:03 -0800, Tom Shelton

Quote:


>>> I came up with RealBasic, Delphi (though I heard it's on the way out),
>>> maybe C# (but I would try to keep away from M$ stuff), and not Java.

>>    Why maybe C# and not Java? C# was designed
>> to compete with Java. They're both semi-sandboxed,
>> OO, JIT-compiled systems running on a VM and
>> designed for server-side/intranet applets.

>>    Isn't the question, really, whether you want to go
>> along with a sandboxed OS -- Microsoft's planned future
>> of software as a service? Maybe a future where you
>> might shortly have to buy webhosting on Azure and
>> get approval in order for your software to run on
>> Windows? One can be for or against that, but it
>> seems important to go into it with eyes open. .Nxt
>> is the Java-fying of the Windows API. It's a radical
>> new direction.

>>    There have been several discussions of various
>> 3rd-party Basics here in the past. I can never
>> keep track of them all, and most (including the
>> Linux-based attempts) seem to have the fatal flaw
>> that they see all Basic coders as glorified scripters
>> who need everything encased in safe wrappers. They
>> equate verbose code with stupidity. (What I like
>> to think of as "Perl syndrome". :)

>>    I think Nobody posted a comprehensive list at
>> one point. Maybe he'll share that again.

>--
>Tom Shelton



Sat, 04 Aug 2012 02:27:22 GMT  
 If you had to move from VB6...
Thanks, Nobody.

I'll give it a look-see and maybe test it.



Quote:


>> What do you think ?

>KBasic is the closest to VB6 out there, but I am not sure how many are using
>it now. It's 100% VB6 code compatible according to the author. It's written
>in VC 2008. It uses Qt as GUI kit and it's multi platform open source, and
>can create EXE's without dependency on any runtime. It will probably replace
>VB6 after many start to use it or contribute to it's development. Because it
>uses Qt as GUI, the hard part is converting VB6 forms. I haven't installed
>it, so I don't know how easy to develop with it.

>http://www.kbasic.com
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qt_%28framework%29

>The site seems to be down at the moment, so here is the Internet Archive
>version:

>http://web.archive.org/web/20080507023915rn_1/www.kbasic.com/doku.php



Sat, 04 Aug 2012 02:28:52 GMT  
 If you had to move from VB6...

Quote:

>> --
>> Tom Shelton

>   Do you realize how often you post nothing?
> I'm never sure whether it's meant to be some
> sort of Zennie trip, or whether you just get
> so worked up that you forget to paste your
> post. :)

It's a slip of the fingers.  I started to reply - then though better about it.
I just hit the wrong key.

--
Tom Shelton



Sat, 04 Aug 2012 02:40:43 GMT  
 If you had to move from VB6...

Quote:
> In another thread, someone said that compared to VB Fred, VB6 was
> pathetic.

> This low attempt to turn me from my private choice of language slid
> off my back like water on a duck.

> However, it did pique my curiosity.

> If I had to move from VB6, which language would I choose.
> Which language would most resemble it in IDE, ease of coding and, yes,
> RAD quality.

Surprisingly. Delphi most resembles the 'Visual Basic Windows Development"
(vb5/6) product in terms of the IDE, ease of coding, and RAD.

But that is a whole new language.

Quote:
> I would accept a learning curve about the same I had to go through
> with VB6. About a hundred hours to get a simple database program
> running (from picking up the course book) and about a year or two to
> get moderatly proficient in it.

Then Delphi would be it. Learning or rather re-learning will be quicker
since you already know the basics.

[I don't use Delphi myself. This is just a personal observation from
watching many teams go that direction.]

Quote:
> I came up with RealBasic, Delphi (though I heard it's on the way out),
> maybe C# (but I would try to keep away from M$ stuff), and not Java.

[PS: Delphi HAS always been on its way out. <g>]

Unfortunately none of the BASICs would rank as a "step-forward". (IMHO) All
are either a "C-ish" front-end, or a 90's BASIC, ie, no real improvement on
'features'.

"VB.Net" is only a BASIC-esque front-end for .Net Framework Development.  MS
merely coop'd the name "Visual Basic" just as they did for Visual Basic for
DOS.  DotNet is an entirely different ballgame. You will spend your 100+
hours learning the Framework.

Quote:
> What do you think ?

Forget the actual language. The real question is what development package do
you want to use?

Or look at it this way. Migrating to vb.net because you used VB6 is a
terrible reason. But migrating to vb.net because you want to stay with MS's
development packages is a good reason. (With MS is now dotNet or the
Highway) But in that case why bother with VB.Net and just use VC++ and C#
(unless funny punctuation and case-sensitivity annoys you).

If you want to avoid MS on Windows then it is C++ or Java - but doing Java
on Windows, with the limited toolset (again IMHO), is just plain making it
tougher on yourself. It is like doing COM on Linix - sure it can be done,
but why? Spend your days playing with tools that are "as good as ...". Hell
who wants to be *just* as good as? <g>

And now here is where I really get flamed... <g>

Frankly, if you want to avoid MS, then avoid Windows. It's their world and
they call all the shots - get used to it or leave. Whine, wimper, b*tch or
cry - at the end of the day - no one cares, especially not MS.

-ralph



Sat, 04 Aug 2012 02:41:12 GMT  
 
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