How to use VC 7.0 C++ compiler from VC 6.0 IDE 
Author Message
 How to use VC 7.0 C++ compiler from VC 6.0 IDE

Hello,

Is there a way to use C++ compiler of Visual studio NET from Visual
Studio 6.0 IDE? I would like to use the new MFC, ATL etc... but from
6.0 IDE.

Regards,
Damir Colak



Sun, 22 May 2005 04:15:26 GMT  
 How to use VC 7.0 C++ compiler from VC 6.0 IDE
Hi Damir,

Probably not but I guess the MS guys will tell us for sure. But why don't
you tell us why you want to do this and maybe people will be able to help
with your specific problems. I've been switched to the .NET IDE for most of
the year and wouldn't go back now for anything. Only took a few weeks to get
used to and a some macros to give back a few things I liked in 6.0

Cheers

Doug Forster


Quote:
> Hello,

> Is there a way to use C++ compiler of Visual studio NET from Visual
> Studio 6.0 IDE? I would like to use the new MFC, ATL etc... but from
> 6.0 IDE.

> Regards,
> Damir Colak



Sun, 22 May 2005 05:02:23 GMT  
 How to use VC 7.0 C++ compiler from VC 6.0 IDE
Doug,

Do you, like many others, miss Class Wizard?

Kevin

"Doug" <doug AT ZAPTHIS toniq ZAPTHIS DOT co ZAPTHIS DOT ZAPTHIS nz> wrote

Quote:
> Hi Damir,

> Probably not but I guess the MS guys will tell us for sure. But why don't
> you tell us why you want to do this and maybe people will be able to help
> with your specific problems. I've been switched to the .NET IDE for most
of
> the year and wouldn't go back now for anything. Only took a few weeks to
get
> used to and a some macros to give back a few things I liked in 6.0

> Cheers

> Doug Forster



> > Hello,

> > Is there a way to use C++ compiler of Visual studio NET from Visual
> > Studio 6.0 IDE? I would like to use the new MFC, ATL etc... but from
> > 6.0 IDE.

> > Regards,
> > Damir Colak



Sun, 22 May 2005 18:54:52 GMT  
 How to use VC 7.0 C++ compiler from VC 6.0 IDE

Quote:
> Probably not but I guess the MS guys will tell us for sure. But why don't
> you tell us why you want to do this and maybe people will be able to help
> with your specific problems. I've been switched to the .NET IDE for most of
> the year and wouldn't go back now for anything. Only took a few weeks to get
> used to and a some macros to give back a few things I liked in 6.0

Let me start by asking your pardon for this mail: the fierceness of my
response is not pointed at you but at MS and their tactics of killing
a great IDE and exchanging it for some VB spawned tool. We've been
using .NET in the company from the time of its release and we are
still not used to it and I doubt that we ever will be. Here are some
of the bugs/problems we have found:

BUG - There doesn't go a day that .NET IDE does not lose possibility
to add windows message handlers for a  selected class. Sometimes, it
helps to switch from CPP to H and the properties of the class do
sometimes come back to life and offer the messages and overrides to
handle.

BUG - It occurred on numerous occasions that the added menu items do
not appear in class property by their ID  abbreviation (e.g.
ID_TOOLS_OPTIONS) but are represented by their ID values (e.g. 299).
That makes creating menu item handlers impossible.

BUG When editing a store procedure longer than one screen, and you
save it, the cursor is automatically transported to the beginning of
the sproc! Try working like that the only permanent solution I have
found is to use old VC6 IDE that of course works without a hitch.

BUG F4 doesn't work thru Find in Files.

BUG To use incremental search you have to check-out the file from
the SourceSafe! Why??

LOW PRODUCTIVITY - The solution explorer does work in a way that the
productivity is hit very hard. For  example, we work in CMainFrame
class and want to change resources, for example a dialog and a string
in string  table. After we finished with editing resources we want to
go back to the cpp where we were originally. In old IDE you  would hit
on the file view (solution explorer) and the class you were in was
already selected. In new IDE, the  solution explorer automatically
selects the .RC file whenever you edit any resource! That way you have
to scroll  through the files again and reselect the proper CPP..

LOW PRODUCTIVITY - The resource editor selection feature has been
changed. In the old IDE, if you don't  select an object completely
with the selection rect it will not be marked as selected. That was a
perfect way to  work - many of our dialogs have a group box as a
dialog margin. The controls are put on top of the group boxes. Now,
whenever we want to move controls that are located inside of some
bigger control we have to select all, deselect the control that is
below them and then manipulate the selection. Why was this changed
from version 6.0 is beyond our comprehension.

LOW PRODUCTIVITY - It is impossible to work productively with
keyboard. We tried making keyboard shortcuts but it just doesn't cut
it. Auto hide panels are one example. Set the autohide option for
build output panel. Start the build, the errors occur. The build
output panel is shown _on top of the source code_ disabling the
programmers from scrolling through it. Ok, we can hit ESCAPE to lose
focus from build output panel and switch back to CPP. BUT, if your
mouse is by chance over build output panel, it will not hide! So you
end up moving the cursor _under_ the build output panel

LOW PRODUCTIVITY - String table. The way new string table works is a
pure horror, productivity wise. You position insert mark on top of the
string table, hit insert and what happens - you are moved to the end
of the list, positioned on a new line with the new id! So, you have a
selected row and you start typing, the value of string is being
changed. But, that is not the way programmers work, they first assign
the ID value and then they start typing the string value, so you hit
Shift+Tab twice and go back to typing the value.

LOW PRODUCTIVITY - New property panel for every existing object in IDE
is always the same, what a terrible idea (but I'm sure it looks great
in the UML diagrams with .NET IDE design). So, let's say you want to
change the Title of the dialog, you press Alt+Enter to get the
properties, and you start scrolling through the list of property items
to find the title. You start typing. Then, let's say you want to
change the ID of dialog - go scroll through the list again. There is
no way to start typing and have the selection positioned on e.g.
caption, you have to scroll, scroll and scroll... Without a mouse you
are lost.

LOW PRODUCTIVITY/BUG - Edit menu resource. Try to select several
subitems and drag&drop them as subitems of another menu. It's a laugh
in our office every time someone tries to do it. Of course, you can
use Copy&Paste, but...

LOW PRODUCTIVITY The .NET IDE looks very much like that of
Rational's bloatware, big, slow, "one hat fits all" It looks like if
it was designed without any user feedback, based on the idea that one
IDE is the best solution for all languages - an UI productivity
nightmare. You end up with a program that is full of slight
inconsistencies (the match bracket option in source code is a good
example, try it in C# and then in C++, it works differently).

LOW PRODUCTIVITY Files in Solution Explorer are order by the order
they were added to the tree and not alphabetically. The only way I
have found to sort them manually is so painful that it can't be used
on any bigger projects: you have to move the files to another temp
folder and then move them back one by one in a sorted order. If they
are not sorted keyboard look-up doesn't work properly.

Not to forget the terrific animation that .NET IDE performs every time
we open or close a project - just like the old Visual Basic IDE - you
can actually see how the windows are being created and files being
loaded! What a shame for once great IDE. Of course, if there are too
many open windows their titles will be lost and will not be shown.
And, whatever you do, it's slow, it doesn't matter how much memory or
how many MHz you have, it's always slow.

To sum things up, Microsoft did a great job of putting the extremely
productive IDE of Visual Studio 6.0 for C++ to the level of
productivity of the old Visual Basic IDE. The new IDE is perfect for
application developers that work with a mouse in one hand and soda in
another and that's not the way to productivity.

I doubt that even one of the original VC6 designers was involved in
makings of VS.NET IDE or even if they were they weren't listened to at
all.

Regards,
Damir Colak



Sun, 22 May 2005 22:31:13 GMT  
 How to use VC 7.0 C++ compiler from VC 6.0 IDE
What an outstanding post.  I couldn't agree more about how bad the new IDE
is for productivity.  Thanks for taking the time to write it.  I hope others
will chime in on how unproductive the IDE is.  The more squeaky wheels, the
more likely we will get some grease.

-Michael Viking

Quote:

> Let me start by asking your pardon for this mail: the fierceness of my
> response is not pointed at you but at MS and their tactics of killing
> a great IDE and exchanging it for some VB spawned tool. We've been
> using .NET in the company from the time of its release and we are
> still not used to it and I doubt that we ever will be. Here are some
> of the bugs/problems we have found:

SNIP


Mon, 23 May 2005 01:39:22 GMT  
 How to use VC 7.0 C++ compiler from VC 6.0 IDE
Damir & Mike,

Have you seen my post below?

... from The Code Project web site.

How important are new features for Visual C++?
http://www.codeproject.com/script/survey/detail.asp?survey=238

Full backwards compatibility with my current code base.          4.08
Full C++ standards conformance                                   4.05
Improved out-of-the-box protection from attacks such as          3.34
  buffer overuns.
Improved speed optimisations.                                    3.85
ASP.NET support.                                                 2.39
RAD support for Windows Forms.                                   3.10
Refinements to Managed Extensions.                               2.77
ClassWizards.                                                    3.40
More documentation / samples.                                    3.87
An IDE designed with C++ devs in mind.                           4.20

Responses                                                 1025
(Options were rated on a scale of 1 to 5)

If this sample is representative it suggest that there is some
dissatisfaction with the VS.NET IDE for C++ development. I notice also that
standards conformance is a high priority.

Kevin


Quote:
> "Doug" <doug AT ZAPTHIS toniq  ZAPTHIS DOT co  ZAPTHIS DOT ZAPTHIS nz>


Quote:
> > Probably not but I guess the MS guys will tell us for sure. But why
don't
> > you tell us why you want to do this and maybe people will be able to
help
> > with your specific problems. I've been switched to the .NET IDE for most
of
> > the year and wouldn't go back now for anything. Only took a few weeks to
get
> > used to and a some macros to give back a few things I liked in 6.0

> Let me start by asking your pardon for this mail: the fierceness of my
> response is not pointed at you but at MS and their tactics of killing
> a great IDE and exchanging it for some VB spawned tool. We've been
> using .NET in the company from the time of its release and we are
> still not used to it and I doubt that we ever will be. Here are some
> of the bugs/problems we have found:

> BUG - There doesn't go a day that .NET IDE does not lose possibility
> to add windows message handlers for a  selected class. Sometimes, it
> helps to switch from CPP to H and the properties of the class do
> sometimes come back to life and offer the messages and overrides to
> handle.

> BUG - It occurred on numerous occasions that the added menu items do
> not appear in class property by their ID  abbreviation (e.g.
> ID_TOOLS_OPTIONS) but are represented by their ID values (e.g. 299).
> That makes creating menu item handlers impossible.

> BUG - When editing a store procedure longer than one screen, and you
> save it, the cursor is automatically transported to the beginning of
> the sproc! Try working like that - the only permanent solution I have
> found is to use old VC6 IDE that of course works without a hitch.

> BUG - F4 doesn't work thru Find in Files.

> BUG - To use incremental search you have to check-out the file from
> the SourceSafe! Why??

> LOW PRODUCTIVITY - The solution explorer does work in a way that the
> productivity is hit very hard. For  example, we work in CMainFrame
> class and want to change resources, for example a dialog and a string
> in string  table. After we finished with editing resources we want to
> go back to the cpp where we were originally. In old IDE you  would hit
> on the file view (solution explorer) and the class you were in was
> already selected. In new IDE, the  solution explorer automatically
> selects the .RC file whenever you edit any resource! That way you have
> to scroll  through the files again and reselect the proper CPP..

> LOW PRODUCTIVITY - The resource editor selection feature has been
> changed. In the old IDE, if you don't  select an object completely
> with the selection rect it will not be marked as selected. That was a
> perfect way to  work - many of our dialogs have a group box as a
> dialog margin. The controls are put on top of the group boxes. Now,
> whenever we want to move controls that are located inside of some
> bigger control we have to select all, deselect the control that is
> below them and then manipulate the selection. Why was this changed
> from version 6.0 is beyond our comprehension.

> LOW PRODUCTIVITY - It is impossible to work productively with
> keyboard. We tried making keyboard shortcuts but it just doesn't cut
> it. Auto hide panels are one example. Set the autohide option for
> build output panel. Start the build, the errors occur. The build
> output panel is shown _on top of the source code_ disabling the
> programmers from scrolling through it. Ok, we can hit ESCAPE to lose
> focus from build output panel and switch back to CPP. BUT, if your
> mouse is by chance over build output panel, it will not hide! So you
> end up moving the cursor _under_ the build output panel.

> LOW PRODUCTIVITY - String table. The way new string table works is a
> pure horror, productivity wise. You position insert mark on top of the
> string table, hit insert and what happens - you are moved to the end
> of the list, positioned on a new line with the new id! So, you have a
> selected row and you start typing, the value of string is being
> changed. But, that is not the way programmers work, they first assign
> the ID value and then they start typing the string value, so you hit
> Shift+Tab twice and go back to typing the value.

> LOW PRODUCTIVITY - New property panel for every existing object in IDE
> is always the same, what a terrible idea (but I'm sure it looks great
> in the UML diagrams with .NET IDE design). So, let's say you want to
> change the Title of the dialog, you press Alt+Enter to get the
> properties, and you start scrolling through the list of property items
> to find the title. You start typing. Then, let's say you want to
> change the ID of dialog - go scroll through the list again. There is
> no way to start typing and have the selection positioned on e.g.
> caption, you have to scroll, scroll and scroll... Without a mouse you
> are lost.

> LOW PRODUCTIVITY/BUG - Edit menu resource. Try to select several
> subitems and drag&drop them as subitems of another menu. It's a laugh
> in our office every time someone tries to do it. Of course, you can
> use Copy&Paste, but...

> LOW PRODUCTIVITY - The .NET IDE looks very much like that of
> Rational's bloatware, big, slow, "one hat fits all" . It looks like if
> it was designed without any user feedback, based on the idea that one
> IDE is the best solution for all languages - an UI productivity
> nightmare. You end up with a program that is full of slight
> inconsistencies (the match bracket option in source code is a good
> example, try it in C# and then in C++, it works differently).

> LOW PRODUCTIVITY - Files in Solution Explorer are order by the order
> they were added to the tree and not alphabetically. The only way I
> have found to sort them manually is so painful that it can't be used
> on any bigger projects: you have to move the files to another temp
> folder and then move them back one by one in a sorted order. If they
> are not sorted keyboard look-up doesn't work properly.

> Not to forget the terrific animation that .NET IDE performs every time
> we open or close a project - just like the old Visual Basic IDE - you
> can actually see how the windows are being created and files being
> loaded! What a shame for once great IDE. Of course, if there are too
> many open windows their titles will be lost and will not be shown.
> And, whatever you do, it's slow, it doesn't matter how much memory or
> how many MHz you have, it's always slow.

> To sum things up, Microsoft did a great job of putting the extremely
> productive IDE of Visual Studio 6.0 for C++ to the level of
> productivity of the old Visual Basic IDE. The new IDE is perfect for
> application developers that work with a mouse in one hand and soda in
> another and that's not the way to productivity.

> I doubt that even one of the original VC6 designers was involved in
> makings of VS.NET IDE or even if they were they weren't listened to at
> all.

> Regards,
> Damir Colak



Mon, 23 May 2005 02:31:17 GMT  
 How to use VC 7.0 C++ compiler from VC 6.0 IDE
Hi Kevin,

Quote:
> Do you, like many others, miss Class Wizard?

Perhaps a bit, but its not a big deal for me.

Cheers

Doug


Quote:
> Doug,

> Do you, like many others, miss Class Wizard?

> Kevin

> "Doug" <doug AT ZAPTHIS toniq ZAPTHIS DOT co ZAPTHIS DOT ZAPTHIS nz> wrote

> > Hi Damir,

> > Probably not but I guess the MS guys will tell us for sure. But why
don't
> > you tell us why you want to do this and maybe people will be able to
help
> > with your specific problems. I've been switched to the .NET IDE for most
> of
> > the year and wouldn't go back now for anything. Only took a few weeks to
> get
> > used to and a some macros to give back a few things I liked in 6.0

> > Cheers

> > Doug Forster



> > > Hello,

> > > Is there a way to use C++ compiler of Visual studio NET from Visual
> > > Studio 6.0 IDE? I would like to use the new MFC, ATL etc... but from
> > > 6.0 IDE.

> > > Regards,
> > > Damir Colak



Mon, 23 May 2005 03:33:22 GMT  
 How to use VC 7.0 C++ compiler from VC 6.0 IDE
Hi Damir,

Wow,  that got you going!
Bugs there are for sure.  I don't have a universal MSDN sub so haven't had a
chance to see what will be fixed with Everett. Might be interesting to hear
your comments on that when you get a look at it. Presumably MS use this tool
themselves so they should have a big incentive to get it right.

Cheers

Doug Forster


Quote:
> "Doug" <doug AT ZAPTHIS toniq  ZAPTHIS DOT co  ZAPTHIS DOT ZAPTHIS nz>


Quote:
> > Probably not but I guess the MS guys will tell us for sure. But why
don't
> > you tell us why you want to do this and maybe people will be able to
help
> > with your specific problems. I've been switched to the .NET IDE for most
of
> > the year and wouldn't go back now for anything. Only took a few weeks to
get
> > used to and a some macros to give back a few things I liked in 6.0

> Let me start by asking your pardon for this mail: the fierceness of my
> response is not pointed at you but at MS and their tactics of killing
> a great IDE and exchanging it for some VB spawned tool. We've been
> using .NET in the company from the time of its release and we are
> still not used to it and I doubt that we ever will be. Here are some
> of the bugs/problems we have found:

> BUG - There doesn't go a day that .NET IDE does not lose possibility
> to add windows message handlers for a  selected class. Sometimes, it
> helps to switch from CPP to H and the properties of the class do
> sometimes come back to life and offer the messages and overrides to
> handle.

> BUG - It occurred on numerous occasions that the added menu items do
> not appear in class property by their ID  abbreviation (e.g.
> ID_TOOLS_OPTIONS) but are represented by their ID values (e.g. 299).
> That makes creating menu item handlers impossible.

> BUG - When editing a store procedure longer than one screen, and you
> save it, the cursor is automatically transported to the beginning of
> the sproc! Try working like that - the only permanent solution I have
> found is to use old VC6 IDE that of course works without a hitch.

> BUG - F4 doesn't work thru Find in Files.

> BUG - To use incremental search you have to check-out the file from
> the SourceSafe! Why??

> LOW PRODUCTIVITY - The solution explorer does work in a way that the
> productivity is hit very hard. For  example, we work in CMainFrame
> class and want to change resources, for example a dialog and a string
> in string  table. After we finished with editing resources we want to
> go back to the cpp where we were originally. In old IDE you  would hit
> on the file view (solution explorer) and the class you were in was
> already selected. In new IDE, the  solution explorer automatically
> selects the .RC file whenever you edit any resource! That way you have
> to scroll  through the files again and reselect the proper CPP..

> LOW PRODUCTIVITY - The resource editor selection feature has been
> changed. In the old IDE, if you don't  select an object completely
> with the selection rect it will not be marked as selected. That was a
> perfect way to  work - many of our dialogs have a group box as a
> dialog margin. The controls are put on top of the group boxes. Now,
> whenever we want to move controls that are located inside of some
> bigger control we have to select all, deselect the control that is
> below them and then manipulate the selection. Why was this changed
> from version 6.0 is beyond our comprehension.

> LOW PRODUCTIVITY - It is impossible to work productively with
> keyboard. We tried making keyboard shortcuts but it just doesn't cut
> it. Auto hide panels are one example. Set the autohide option for
> build output panel. Start the build, the errors occur. The build
> output panel is shown _on top of the source code_ disabling the
> programmers from scrolling through it. Ok, we can hit ESCAPE to lose
> focus from build output panel and switch back to CPP. BUT, if your
> mouse is by chance over build output panel, it will not hide! So you
> end up moving the cursor _under_ the build output panel.

> LOW PRODUCTIVITY - String table. The way new string table works is a
> pure horror, productivity wise. You position insert mark on top of the
> string table, hit insert and what happens - you are moved to the end
> of the list, positioned on a new line with the new id! So, you have a
> selected row and you start typing, the value of string is being
> changed. But, that is not the way programmers work, they first assign
> the ID value and then they start typing the string value, so you hit
> Shift+Tab twice and go back to typing the value.

> LOW PRODUCTIVITY - New property panel for every existing object in IDE
> is always the same, what a terrible idea (but I'm sure it looks great
> in the UML diagrams with .NET IDE design). So, let's say you want to
> change the Title of the dialog, you press Alt+Enter to get the
> properties, and you start scrolling through the list of property items
> to find the title. You start typing. Then, let's say you want to
> change the ID of dialog - go scroll through the list again. There is
> no way to start typing and have the selection positioned on e.g.
> caption, you have to scroll, scroll and scroll... Without a mouse you
> are lost.

> LOW PRODUCTIVITY/BUG - Edit menu resource. Try to select several
> subitems and drag&drop them as subitems of another menu. It's a laugh
> in our office every time someone tries to do it. Of course, you can
> use Copy&Paste, but...

> LOW PRODUCTIVITY - The .NET IDE looks very much like that of
> Rational's bloatware, big, slow, "one hat fits all" . It looks like if
> it was designed without any user feedback, based on the idea that one
> IDE is the best solution for all languages - an UI productivity
> nightmare. You end up with a program that is full of slight
> inconsistencies (the match bracket option in source code is a good
> example, try it in C# and then in C++, it works differently).

> LOW PRODUCTIVITY - Files in Solution Explorer are order by the order
> they were added to the tree and not alphabetically. The only way I
> have found to sort them manually is so painful that it can't be used
> on any bigger projects: you have to move the files to another temp
> folder and then move them back one by one in a sorted order. If they
> are not sorted keyboard look-up doesn't work properly.

> Not to forget the terrific animation that .NET IDE performs every time
> we open or close a project - just like the old Visual Basic IDE - you
> can actually see how the windows are being created and files being
> loaded! What a shame for once great IDE. Of course, if there are too
> many open windows their titles will be lost and will not be shown.
> And, whatever you do, it's slow, it doesn't matter how much memory or
> how many MHz you have, it's always slow.

> To sum things up, Microsoft did a great job of putting the extremely
> productive IDE of Visual Studio 6.0 for C++ to the level of
> productivity of the old Visual Basic IDE. The new IDE is perfect for
> application developers that work with a mouse in one hand and soda in
> another and that's not the way to productivity.

> I doubt that even one of the original VC6 designers was involved in
> makings of VS.NET IDE or even if they were they weren't listened to at
> all.

> Regards,
> Damir Colak



Mon, 23 May 2005 03:41:32 GMT  
 How to use VC 7.0 C++ compiler from VC 6.0 IDE

"Doug" <doug AT ZAPTHIS toniq ZAPTHIS DOT co ZAPTHIS DOT ZAPTHIS nz> wrote

Quote:
> Hi Damir,

> Wow,  that got you going!
> Bugs there are for sure.  I don't have a universal MSDN sub so haven't had
a
> chance to see what will be fixed with Everett. Might be interesting to
hear
> your comments on that when you get a look at it. Presumably MS use this
tool
> themselves so they should have a big incentive to get it right.

> Cheers

> Doug Forster

Someone from MS said a while back that, in fact, they use a variety of tools
for C++ development.


Mon, 23 May 2005 05:16:13 GMT  
 How to use VC 7.0 C++ compiler from VC 6.0 IDE

Quote:
> Wow,  that got you going!
> Bugs there are for sure.  I don't have a universal MSDN sub so haven't had a
> chance to see what will be fixed with Everett. Might be interesting to hear
> your comments on that when you get a look at it. Presumably MS use this tool
> themselves so they should have a big incentive to get it right.

I'll be glad to let you know of any improvements as soon as I get my
hands on it. Hopefully, it will be a much "nicer" review than my
previous one :-)

Regards,
Damir Colak



Mon, 23 May 2005 08:33:38 GMT  
 How to use VC 7.0 C++ compiler from VC 6.0 IDE
Thanks for taking the time to detail all the issues you've encountered so
far. I apologize for the late reply but we wanted to do some investigating
before posting this reply. There are some open issues that I'm still chasing
down that I can provide updates on later on. Replies are given inline.

Quote:
> BUG - There doesn't go a day that .NET IDE does not lose possibility
> to add windows message handlers for a  selected class. Sometimes, it
> helps to switch from CPP to H and the properties of the class do
> sometimes come back to life and offer the messages and overrides to
> handle.

*******************************************************
The way to add these handlers is from selecting the appropriate class in
classview. The property grid tracks selection. So if you are in a cpp file,
you may not be in the class context. It works in the header file because, we
always put the context of the current class in the classview and everything
seems to work. So whether you have files open or not, the correct thing to
do is to get the context to the class that you want to operate on, by
navigating to the right node in classview. ClassView navigation is something
we are working on improving in the next release of the product.

Quote:
> BUG - It occurred on numerous occasions that the added menu items do
> not appear in class property by their ID  abbreviation (e.g.
> ID_TOOLS_OPTIONS) but are represented by their ID values (e.g. 299).
> That makes creating menu item handlers impossible.

*********************************************************
Yes, this is a bug in the actual resource compiler for which the fix will be
shipped in the next Platform SDK update.

Quote:
> BUG - When editing a store procedure longer than one screen, and you
> save it, the cursor is automatically transported to the beginning of
> the sproc! Try working like that - the only permanent solution I have
> found is to use old VC6 IDE that of course works without a hitch.

*********************************************************
I've forwarded this to the appropriate team within MS but haven't received a
reply yet. Will keep you posted

Quote:
> BUG - F4 doesn't work thru Find in Files.

*********************************************************
You can use F8 in the default IDE scheme to navigate the results. Yes, I
know that still doesn't solve the overall issue that we screwed around with
your known keyboard bindings and you have to re-learn them from scratch.

Quote:
> BUG - To use incremental search you have to check-out the file from
> the SourceSafe! Why??

*********************************************************
We're still investigating this one. It didn't repro for us but that was when
IDE Source Safe integration was turned off. If this results in a bug we will
for sure be fixing it in the next release of the product.

Quote:
> LOW PRODUCTIVITY - The solution explorer does work in a way that the
> productivity is hit very hard. For  example, we work in CMainFrame
> class and want to change resources, for example a dialog and a string
> in string  table. After we finished with editing resources we want to
> go back to the cpp where we were originally. In old IDE you  would hit
> on the file view (solution explorer) and the class you were in was
> already selected. In new IDE, the  solution explorer automatically
> selects the .RC file whenever you edit any resource! That way you have
> to scroll  through the files again and reselect the proper CPP..

*********************************************************
We have heard this complaint before and in the Everett release we have
actually turned off this behaviour of automatically tracking the open file
in the Solution Explorer for the VC++ profile. If you do not have the VC++
profile selected you can still turn it off by going to
Tools->Options->Environment->Projects and Solutions and uncheck this option:
Track active item in Solution Explorer

Quote:
> LOW PRODUCTIVITY - The resource editor selection feature has been
> changed. In the old IDE, if you don't  select an object completely
> with the selection rect it will not be marked as selected. That was a
> perfect way to  work - many of our dialogs have a group box as a
> dialog margin. The controls are put on top of the group boxes. Now,
> whenever we want to move controls that are located inside of some
> bigger control we have to select all, deselect the control that is
> below them and then manipulate the selection. Why was this changed
> from version 6.0 is beyond our comprehension.

*********************************************************
You will be surprised to find out that we actually changed this behaviour
based on a usability study. The idea was that many controls could be larger
than the viewed area and we wanted the selection in this case to be easy.

Quote:
> LOW PRODUCTIVITY - It is impossible to work productively with
> keyboard. We tried making keyboard shortcuts but it just doesn't cut
> it. Auto hide panels are one example. Set the autohide option for
> build output panel. Start the build, the errors occur. The build
> output panel is shown _on top of the source code_ disabling the
> programmers from scrolling through it. Ok, we can hit ESCAPE to lose
> focus from build output panel and switch back to CPP. BUT, if your
> mouse is by chance over build output panel, it will not hide! So you
> end up moving the cursor _under_ the build output panel.

*********************************************************
This is the way the team designed the Autohide functionality. I will forward
your feedback to the appropriate persons. I supose turning off Autohide is
not the solution you are looking for...

Quote:
> LOW PRODUCTIVITY - String table. The way new string table works is a
> pure horror, productivity wise. You position insert mark on top of the
> string table, hit insert and what happens - you are moved to the end
> of the list, positioned on a new line with the new id! So, you have a
> selected row and you start typing, the value of string is being
> changed. But, that is not the way programmers work, they first assign
> the ID value and then they start typing the string value, so you hit
> Shift+Tab twice and go back to typing the value.

*********************************************************
Thanks for reporting this, we will address this usability issue for the next
release of the product

Quote:
> LOW PRODUCTIVITY - New property panel for every existing object in IDE
> is always the same, what a terrible idea (but I'm sure it looks great
> in the UML diagrams with .NET IDE design). So, let's say you want to
> change the Title of the dialog, you press Alt+Enter to get the
> properties, and you start scrolling through the list of property items
> to find the title. You start typing. Then, let's say you want to
> change the ID of dialog - go scroll through the list again. There is
> no way to start typing and have the selection positioned on e.g.
> caption, you have to scroll, scroll and scroll... Without a mouse you
> are lost.

*********************************************************
I have passed on your request to the appropriate team. The only thing I can
currently suggest are the keyboard shortcuts for sequential navigation:
Arrow up and down and Alt-Arrow up or down for expanfing the combobox.

Quote:
> LOW PRODUCTIVITY/BUG - Edit menu resource. Try to select several
> subitems and drag&drop them as subitems of another menu. It's a laugh
> in our office every time someone tries to do it. Of course, you can
> use Copy&Paste, but...

*********************************************************
Yes, this is a bug that we will be addressing for the next release of the
product

Quote:
> LOW PRODUCTIVITY - The .NET IDE looks very much like that of
> Rational's bloatware, big, slow, "one hat fits all" . It looks like if
> it was designed without any user feedback, based on the idea that one
> IDE is the best solution for all languages - an UI productivity
> nightmare. You end up with a program that is full of slight
> inconsistencies (the match bracket option in source code is a good
> example, try it in C# and then in C++, it works differently).

*********************************************************
We are trying to fix this by coming up with  language/developer profiles
that will be able to customize a developer's experience based on the
language of choice (C++) and that can be further refined based on personal
development preferences.

Quote:
> LOW PRODUCTIVITY - Files in Solution Explorer are order by the order
> they were added to the tree and not alphabetically. The only way I
> have found to sort them manually is so painful that it can't be used
> on any bigger projects: you have to move the files to another temp
> folder and then move them back one by one in a sorted order. If they
> are not sorted keyboard look-up doesn't work properly.>

*********************************************************
The files should be sorted alphabetically if you close and reopen the
solution. The only reason we do not add sort at the time we add the file
itself is performance. The next time we load the solution explorer though we
display them correctly

Quote:
> Not to forget the terrific animation that .NET IDE performs every time
> we open or close a project - just like the old Visual Basic IDE - you
> can actually see how the windows are being created and files being
> loaded! What a shame for once great IDE. Of course, if there are too
> many open windows their titles will be lost and will not be shown.
> And, whatever you do, it's slow, it doesn't matter how much memory or
> how many MHz you have, it's always slow.

*********************************************************
On the titles lost issue this was a bug that was identified to be due to a
specific version of an NVIDIA video card driver. If you update your driver
to the latest one the issue goes away.

As a closing we would like to encourage people to be as frank and open as
Damir was in his feedback. It's only with this kind of direct customer
involvement ...

read more »



Sat, 28 May 2005 08:53:52 GMT  
 How to use VC 7.0 C++ compiler from VC 6.0 IDE
How do I turn off (what in VC6 was called) 'copy without selection' within
the IDE? I truly hate the feature, and I just cannot find its settings in
Tools | Options | *. It ought/might to be in Text Editor | All Languages,
but as I said, I just can't find it.
Others have posed the question before, but no answer from MS or anyone else.

/Thanks, Andreas



Sun, 05 Jun 2005 19:55:36 GMT  
 How to use VC 7.0 C++ compiler from VC 6.0 IDE

Quote:
> How do I turn off (what in VC6 was called) 'copy without selection' within
> the IDE? I truly hate the feature, and I just cannot find its settings in

There is currently no option to do this. I'll forward your request to the
development team.

Thanks.
--
Sreraman Narasimhan
VC++ Team
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.


Quote:
> How do I turn off (what in VC6 was called) 'copy without selection' within
> the IDE? I truly hate the feature, and I just cannot find its settings in
> Tools | Options | *. It ought/might to be in Text Editor | All Languages,
> but as I said, I just can't find it.
> Others have posed the question before, but no answer from MS or anyone
else.

> /Thanks, Andreas



Mon, 06 Jun 2005 03:00:02 GMT  
 How to use VC 7.0 C++ compiler from VC 6.0 IDE
Thank you very much for the answer, although the answer in itself of course
is a disappointment.

/Andreas


Quote:
> > How do I turn off (what in VC6 was called) 'copy without selection'
within
> > the IDE? I truly hate the feature, and I just cannot find its settings
in

> There is currently no option to do this. I'll forward your request to the
> development team.

> Thanks.
> --
> Sreraman Narasimhan
> VC++ Team
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights.



> > How do I turn off (what in VC6 was called) 'copy without selection'
within
> > the IDE? I truly hate the feature, and I just cannot find its settings
in
> > Tools | Options | *. It ought/might to be in Text Editor | All
Languages,
> > but as I said, I just can't find it.
> > Others have posed the question before, but no answer from MS or anyone
> else.

> > /Thanks, Andreas



Mon, 06 Jun 2005 04:12:52 GMT  
 
 [ 15 post ] 

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