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P Seama
#1 / 20
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 Comment to the VB/NET Help file writers... You guys screwed up a perfectly good help system and have produced the worst and most useless help systems I have ever had to use? There are no useful examples of code and your explanations are ALWAYS
directed at C++ and C# in the WEB environment.
Where is the code and help for Applications builders? We are the backbone
of the Microsoft programming empire. People who build VB applications using
Forms and ActiveX controls.
A very dissatisfied programmer
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| Sat, 11 Sep 2004 10:31:28 GMT |
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Mart
#2 / 20
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Comment to the VB/NET Help file writers... You are absolutely correct. VS.NET help is useless. The sad part is that MS is apparently incapable of making it any better. I've spent a $100 on books so far. On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:31:28 -0800, "P Seaman"
Quote:
>You guys screwed up a perfectly good help system and have produced the worst >and most useless help systems I have ever had to use? >There are no useful examples of code and your explanations are ALWAYS
>directed at C++ and C# in the WEB environment.
>Where is the code and help for Applications builders? We are the backbone
>of the Microsoft programming empire. People who build VB applications using
>Forms and ActiveX controls.
>A very dissatisfied programmer
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| Sat, 11 Sep 2004 11:31:03 GMT |
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Shawn B
#3 / 20
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Comment to the VB/NET Help file writers... That would make sense, they are trying really hard to make everything "Internet". So if they diminish the platform code and direct everything towards "web services", "web applications", "web this", "web that", then perhaps they're hoping more poeople will "think" the "web" is the "future"... I think they should not neglect the platorm writers. But they aren't listening to use, because A) we aren't a multimillion $$$ business partner, and B) platform development isn't their visiion for the future. Thanks,
Shawn
Quote: > You guys screwed up a perfectly good help system and have produced the worst > and most useless help systems I have ever had to use? > There are no useful examples of code and your explanations are ALWAYS
> directed at C++ and C# in the WEB environment.
> Where is the code and help for Applications builders? We are the backbone
> of the Microsoft programming empire. People who build VB applications
using
> Forms and ActiveX controls.
> A very dissatisfied programmer
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| Sat, 11 Sep 2004 12:05:31 GMT |
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Kunle Odutol
#4 / 20
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Comment to the VB/NET Help file writers...
Quote: > You guys screwed up a perfectly good help system and have produced the worst > and most useless help systems I have ever had to use? > There are no useful examples of code and your explanations are ALWAYS
> directed at C++ and C# in the WEB environment.
> Where is the code and help for Applications builders? We are the backbone
> of the Microsoft programming empire. People who build VB applications
using
> Forms and ActiveX controls.
What exactly is the problem you are trying to solve?. If you post the issues rather than your negative outburts, you are more likely to find someone willing to help. If you are totally new to VB.NET I'd advise trying the Quickstart
tutorials on ASP.NET and Winforms. They have full sample code and can save
you a lot of headache initially.
Kunle
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| Sat, 11 Sep 2004 12:07:20 GMT |
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Vinn
#5 / 20
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Comment to the VB/NET Help file writers...
Quote: > You are absolutely correct. VS.NET help is useless. The sad part is
> that MS is apparently incapable of making it any better. I've spent a
> $100 on books so far.
100 bucks on books is two to three books, they are so damned expensive! Vinny
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| Sat, 11 Sep 2004 22:01:31 GMT |
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Vinn
#6 / 20
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Comment to the VB/NET Help file writers... Quote: > What exactly is the problem you are trying to solve?. If you post the
issues
> rather than your negative outburts, you are more likely to find someone
> willing to help.
That is very true, these newsgroups are full of very helpful and kind people, but sometimes, i think it would be nice to find things on your own. it is also faster to get the information you need just by typing in the subject you need help with compared to posting a question and waiting until someone to give you the answer you need, which is usually pretty fast anyways. i must agree the help system is not the greatest, it would be nice to have
something a little bit more powerful. a good instance is something like the
DataReader class, try to get information on that, you wont have a very easy
time.
Vinny
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| Sat, 11 Sep 2004 22:05:17 GMT |
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Fred
#7 / 20
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Comment to the VB/NET Help file writers... Try finding the ASCII character code chart... Or a listing of run-time error codes/descriptions... The quickest way to find a lot of stuff in VS is to fire up VB6 and press
F1.
Quote:
> > You are absolutely correct. VS.NET help is useless. The sad part is
> > that MS is apparently incapable of making it any better. I've spent a
> > $100 on books so far.
> 100 bucks on books is two to three books, they are so damned expensive!
> Vinny
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| Sat, 11 Sep 2004 22:26:36 GMT |
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Mart
#8 / 20
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Comment to the VB/NET Help file writers... Quote: >What exactly is the problem you are trying to solve?.
There are many problems (questions) - there's a new one every 5 or 10 minutes as I try to learn this new language and convert my thinking over from VB6/VB5. It is not realistic that I post everything to this newsgroup. The major issue I have with the "help" system is that it tells me "how
to build a watch" when what I want is to know "how to tell what time
it is".
Quote: >If you post the issues
>rather than your negative outburts, you are more likely to find someone
>willing to help.
I'm not looking for "someone" to help me; I want a truly useful, on-line help system. And MS does not provide that.
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| Sat, 11 Sep 2004 23:07:57 GMT |
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Joe
#9 / 20
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Comment to the VB/NET Help file writers... Quote:
> You guys screwed up a perfectly good help system and have produced the worst
> and most useless help systems I have ever had to use?
This behavior is by design. Think of B# as "Borland Basic Builder", and you'll be much better off. Anders "VBK" Hejlsberg, the {*filter*}y worthless git responsible for this bucket of raw sewage, thinks he's forgotten more about programming than you'll ever know, and the help (less) system is simply one more way to make sure you don't forget it! Quote: > There are no useful examples of code and your explanations are ALWAYS > directed at C++ and C# in the WEB environment. > Where is the code and help for Applications builders? We are the backbone
> of the Microsoft programming empire. People who build VB applications using
> Forms and ActiveX controls.
No, you're .NOT -- clearly, The Future is all-Web, all the time. That hot new dual 2Ghz Pentium IV is merely a "dumb terminal" for some Borg Cube sitting in Micro$haft's ba{*filter*}t. Welcome to Larry Ellison and Scott McNealy's "network computer", only it will cost more than $500, and it will run only .NET, /not/ Java. --
Joe Foster <mailto:jlfoster%40znet.com> "Regged" again? < http://www.*-*-*.com/ ;
WARNING: I cannot be held responsible for the above They're coming to
because my cats have apparently learned to type. take me away, ha ha!
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| Sun, 12 Sep 2004 01:44:43 GMT |
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Joe
#10 / 20
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Comment to the VB/NET Help file writers... Quote:
> >What exactly is the problem you are trying to solve?. > There are many problems (questions) - there's a new one every 5 or 10
> minutes as I try to learn this new language and convert my thinking
> over from VB6/VB5. It is not realistic that I post everything to this
> newsgroup.
> The major issue I have with the "help" system is that it tells me "how
> to build a watch" when what I want is to know "how to tell what time
> it is".
Welcome to the miracle of "Pure OOP". This whole "encapsulation" thing is just a red herring. Instead of looking at a "watch" to find out what time it is, you're supposed to marvel at the genius of each and every component, as designed by Anders "VB" Hejlsberg, who art in Heaven.NET... --
Joe Foster <mailto:jlfoster%40znet.com> KrazyKookKultz! <http://www.xenu.net/>
WARNING: I cannot be held responsible for the above They're coming to
because my cats have apparently learned to type. take me away, ha ha!
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| Sun, 12 Sep 2004 01:49:37 GMT |
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MVP
#11 / 20
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Comment to the VB/NET Help file writers... Quote: > There are no useful examples of code and your explanations are ALWAYS > directed at C++ and C# in the WEB environment. > Where is the code and help for Applications builders? We are the backbone
> of the Microsoft programming empire. People who build VB applications
using
> Forms and ActiveX controls.
Do you have an example? --
Jacob Grass
Microsoft .NET MVP
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| Sun, 12 Sep 2004 05:40:45 GMT |
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MVP
#12 / 20
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Comment to the VB/NET Help file writers... Quote: > Try finding the ASCII character code chart...
Hmm. . .I opened up the Help, opened the Index, typed ASCII and clicked on codes. 2 seconds for me. Quote: > Or a listing of run-time
> error codes/descriptions...
Opened up the help, typed 'error codes' (no quotes) in the index and clicked on runtime. Directed to information explaining that VB.NET throws Error Objects, therefore, the listing you are looking for is not relevant to this product. Another 2 seconds. Quote: > The quickest way to find a lot of stuff in VS is to fire up VB6 and press
> F1.
I think that if you spend a little time with the help system, you will find that it is far superior to the VB6 help. Not only in it's content but in it's organization. --
Jacob Grass
Microsoft .NET MVP
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| Sun, 12 Sep 2004 05:40:05 GMT |
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MVP
#13 / 20
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Comment to the VB/NET Help file writers... Quote: > You are absolutely correct. VS.NET help is useless. The sad part is
> that MS is apparently incapable of making it any better. I've spent a
> $100 on books so far.
I disagree. I think the help system is fantastic. You have to realize that there is a *ton* of information out there. And, yes, some of it could be organized better. FWIW, I have probably spent $300 on books so far. The help system isn't and
shouldn't be the end-all-be-all of documentation on the framework. Almost
all of the books I have purchased have been absolutely worth it for the mere
reason that they explain the "why" rather than the "how."
--
Jacob Grass
Microsoft .NET MVP
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| Sun, 12 Sep 2004 05:43:20 GMT |
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MVP
#14 / 20
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Comment to the VB/NET Help file writers... Quote: > That would make sense, they are trying really hard to make everything
> "Internet". So if they diminish the platform code and direct everything
> towards "web services", "web applications", "web this", "web that", then
> perhaps they're hoping more poeople will "think" the "web" is the
> "future"... I think they should not neglect the platorm writers. But they
> aren't listening to use, because A) we aren't a multimillion $$$ business
> partner, and B) platform development isn't their visiion for the future.
Have you seen Windows Forms? It is phenomenal. Especially compared to VB6 Forms. You have to look at things from a tech perspective rather than a marketing perspective. They are saying "web this, web that" because the "Web" is {*filter*}. Web services are {*filter*}. It's what sells. But, the power and flexibility of the Windows Forms libraries clearly indicate to me that they are not forgetting/ignoring the desktop. --
Jacob Grass
Microsoft .NET MVP
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| Sun, 12 Sep 2004 05:45:33 GMT |
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jame
#15 / 20
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Comment to the VB/NET Help file writers... Joe, when are you going to give up bashing .NET ? I think the whole world has gotten your anti-MS message enough times to throw up over it. Instead of{*filter*} around here bashing it, why not go to a newsgroup that is a part of something you actually like ? You might even get to feeling better. james
Quote: > > >What exactly is the problem you are trying to solve?.
> > There are many problems (questions) - there's a new one every 5 or 10
> > minutes as I try to learn this new language and convert my thinking
> > over from VB6/VB5. It is not realistic that I post everything to this
> > newsgroup.
> > The major issue I have with the "help" system is that it tells me "how
> > to build a watch" when what I want is to know "how to tell what time
> > it is".
> Welcome to the miracle of "Pure OOP". This whole "encapsulation"
> thing is just a red herring. Instead of looking at a "watch" to
> find out what time it is, you're supposed to marvel at the genius
> of each and every component, as designed by Anders "VB" Hejlsberg,
> who art in Heaven.NET...
> --
> Joe Foster <mailto:jlfoster%40znet.com> KrazyKookKultz!
< http://www.*-*-*.com/ ; Quote: > WARNING: I cannot be held responsible for the above They're
coming to
> because my cats have apparently learned to type. take me away,
ha ha!
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| Sun, 12 Sep 2004 11:08:25 GMT |
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