some guidance for a newbie designing a database app in SQL Server 2k and VB.Net 
Author Message
 some guidance for a newbie designing a database app in SQL Server 2k and VB.Net

hi all -

TIA for looking at this post.

I am from MS Access land.  i have designed some decent database apps for businesses over the years, but am once and for all fed up with its various limitations as a serious db platform SO... i am doing my current project with VB.Net and SQL Server.  I have made a few utility applets in VB (both 5.0 and .Net) so i am decent with the VB syntax and structure, but i need more about the concepts.

the project in question is a small multi-user database app.  (~10 users over a lan - 6 or 7 data screens, ~10 reports, a few automated processes, and that's it)

mainly i am looking for recommendations on books or websites that will provide beginner/intermediate-level insight into the following issues:
-    various architectural approaches:  'is a simple client-server arch. sufficient for what i am trying to do, or should i be planning on at least one intermediate tier?'
-    managing concurrent multiuser data access
-    managing SQL server security from within my client app
-    should i be thinking 'web services' even though the app (at this point) is intended to be in-house only?
-    overview of deploying an SQL Server-integrated application

i am not a COMPLETE idiot, but i would like a source that explains these things a bit better/simpler than the M$ documentation.  Theirs seems to be technically informative, but lacks the 'big picture'/'why exactly do i want to do this?'/overview tie-ins that i need at this point.

other than that, just want to say 'hi' and that i'll probably be a more familiar face here in the coming months as i run into all the fun issues of app design that only real-live humans can answer...

again, TIA & have a good day!

=Kris



Mon, 17 Oct 2005 03:03:44 GMT  
 some guidance for a newbie designing a database app in SQL Server 2k and VB.Net

Hi Kris,

You're going in the right direction.  In no special order:

No, don't think about a web app at this point.

For the kind of app you're developing, a simple windows app is fine - one tier.

Managing concurrent access is inherent is ado.net - everything's disconnected, so clashes are rare and can be dealt with pretty effectively.

Books - re data access, Apress, Vaughn 'ado.net and ado - best practices'
VB . net - Apress - Troelsen - 'vb.net and the net platform' - advanced (but you can handle it).
Also, MS Press - Balena, 'programming vb .net'

HTH,

Bernie Yaeger

  hi all -

  TIA for looking at this post.

  I am from MS Access land.  i have designed some decent database apps for businesses over the years, but am once and for all fed up with its various limitations as a serious db platform SO... i am doing my current project with VB.Net and SQL Server.  I have made a few utility applets in VB (both 5.0 and .Net) so i am decent with the VB syntax and structure, but i need more about the concepts.

  the project in question is a small multi-user database app.  (~10 users over a lan - 6 or 7 data screens, ~10 reports, a few automated processes, and that's it)

  mainly i am looking for recommendations on books or websites that will provide beginner/intermediate-level insight into the following issues:
  -    various architectural approaches:  'is a simple client-server arch. sufficient for what i am trying to do, or should i be planning on at least one intermediate tier?'
  -    managing concurrent multiuser data access
  -    managing SQL server security from within my client app
  -    should i be thinking 'web services' even though the app (at this point) is intended to be in-house only?
  -    overview of deploying an SQL Server-integrated application

  i am not a COMPLETE idiot, but i would like a source that explains these things a bit better/simpler than the M$ documentation.  Theirs seems to be technically informative, but lacks the 'big picture'/'why exactly do i want to do this?'/overview tie-ins that i need at this point.

  other than that, just want to say 'hi' and that i'll probably be a more familiar face here in the coming months as i run into all the fun issues of app design that only real-live humans can answer...

  again, TIA & have a good day!

  =Kris



Mon, 17 Oct 2005 04:48:27 GMT  
 some guidance for a newbie designing a database app in SQL Server 2k and VB.Net

excellent!  thank you Bernie!

i have read a bit about the inherent optimistic concurrency of ADO.Net and i think this will work just fine for what i am doing, since simultaneous changes to the same record by different users should be pretty rare...  (this is a relief!)

this one-tier approach assumes all the business-level data-integrity rules will be handled by the client?  if so, i assume stored procedures would be the alternative - any general suggestions for when i might want to use them instead of VB routines?

as for the matter of security - i assume that from each client, i'll have to pass the username and PW each time i build a connection string.  SO... does VB.Net provide a means to programmatically retrieve the logged-in user's name and PW from Windows and pass it through to the SQL Server, or do i have to explicitly create 'name' and 'pw' entry screens in my app (and make 'logging-on' to the database part of the application? - i want to avoid this if possible.)  (admittedly, i will probably answer this question 5 minutes from now when i open up the VS.Net help, but i am still including it here to give u a rare glimpse 'inside the mind' of the newbie developer!)

if anyone has time for brief answers, i'd appreciate it.  otherwise, don't worry - i'm sure these are common questions for newbs and i can find the answers without too much time spent searching! =)

TIA again!

=Kris


  Hi Kris,

  You're going in the right direction.  In no special order:

  No, don't think about a web app at this point.

  For the kind of app you're developing, a simple windows app is fine - one tier.

  Managing concurrent access is inherent is ado.net - everything's disconnected, so clashes are rare and can be dealt with pretty effectively.

  Books - re data access, Apress, Vaughn 'ado.net and ado - best practices'
  VB . net - Apress - Troelsen - 'vb.net and the net platform' - advanced (but you can handle it).
  Also, MS Press - Balena, 'programming vb .net'

  HTH,

  Bernie Yaeger

    hi all -

    TIA for looking at this post.

    I am from MS Access land.  i have designed some decent database apps for businesses over the years, but am once and for all fed up with its various limitations as a serious db platform SO... i am doing my current project with VB.Net and SQL Server.  I have made a few utility applets in VB (both 5.0 and .Net) so i am decent with the VB syntax and structure, but i need more about the concepts.

    the project in question is a small multi-user database app.  (~10 users over a lan - 6 or 7 data screens, ~10 reports, a few automated processes, and that's it)

    mainly i am looking for recommendations on books or websites that will provide beginner/intermediate-level insight into the following issues:
    -    various architectural approaches:  'is a simple client-server arch. sufficient for what i am trying to do, or should i be planning on at least one intermediate tier?'
    -    managing concurrent multiuser data access
    -    managing SQL server security from within my client app
    -    should i be thinking 'web services' even though the app (at this point) is intended to be in-house only?
    -    overview of deploying an SQL Server-integrated application

    i am not a COMPLETE idiot, but i would like a source that explains these things a bit better/simpler than the M$ documentation.  Theirs seems to be technically informative, but lacks the 'big picture'/'why exactly do i want to do this?'/overview tie-ins that i need at this point.

    other than that, just want to say 'hi' and that i'll probably be a more familiar face here in the coming months as i run into all the fun issues of app design that only real-live humans can answer...

    again, TIA & have a good day!

    =Kris



Tue, 18 Oct 2005 03:40:17 GMT  
 some guidance for a newbie designing a database app in SQL Server 2k and VB.Net

Hi Kris,

Re stored procs, it's hard to suggest when to use them.  I use them often when creating tables, when copying a filtered dataset into a new table, when there are situations where the sproc has to run against different table names, etc.  I don't use them for updating, inserting, deleting, as I feel I have more control doing that in the vb .net environment.

Re security and identifying the user, yes, it can be done pretty easily - your connection string should be variable sensitive to the logon of the user; getting this is not too difficult - you might want to look at a recent version of element K journal that has a recent article on this very situation.

HTH,

Bernie


  excellent!  thank you Bernie!

  i have read a bit about the inherent optimistic concurrency of ADO.Net and i think this will work just fine for what i am doing, since simultaneous changes to the same record by different users should be pretty rare...  (this is a relief!)

  this one-tier approach assumes all the business-level data-integrity rules will be handled by the client?  if so, i assume stored procedures would be the alternative - any general suggestions for when i might want to use them instead of VB routines?

  as for the matter of security - i assume that from each client, i'll have to pass the username and PW each time i build a connection string.  SO... does VB.Net provide a means to programmatically retrieve the logged-in user's name and PW from Windows and pass it through to the SQL Server, or do i have to explicitly create 'name' and 'pw' entry screens in my app (and make 'logging-on' to the database part of the application? - i want to avoid this if possible.)  (admittedly, i will probably answer this question 5 minutes from now when i open up the VS.Net help, but i am still including it here to give u a rare glimpse 'inside the mind' of the newbie developer!)

  if anyone has time for brief answers, i'd appreciate it.  otherwise, don't worry - i'm sure these are common questions for newbs and i can find the answers without too much time spent searching! =)

  TIA again!

  =Kris


    Hi Kris,

    You're going in the right direction.  In no special order:

    No, don't think about a web app at this point.

    For the kind of app you're developing, a simple windows app is fine - one tier.

    Managing concurrent access is inherent is ado.net - everything's disconnected, so clashes are rare and can be dealt with pretty effectively.

    Books - re data access, Apress, Vaughn 'ado.net and ado - best practices'
    VB . net - Apress - Troelsen - 'vb.net and the net platform' - advanced (but you can handle it).
    Also, MS Press - Balena, 'programming vb .net'

    HTH,

    Bernie Yaeger

      hi all -

      TIA for looking at this post.

      I am from MS Access land.  i have designed some decent database apps for businesses over the years, but am once and for all fed up with its various limitations as a serious db platform SO... i am doing my current project with VB.Net and SQL Server.  I have made a few utility applets in VB (both 5.0 and .Net) so i am decent with the VB syntax and structure, but i need more about the concepts.

      the project in question is a small multi-user database app.  (~10 users over a lan - 6 or 7 data screens, ~10 reports, a few automated processes, and that's it)

      mainly i am looking for recommendations on books or websites that will provide beginner/intermediate-level insight into the following issues:
      -    various architectural approaches:  'is a simple client-server arch. sufficient for what i am trying to do, or should i be planning on at least one intermediate tier?'
      -    managing concurrent multiuser data access
      -    managing SQL server security from within my client app
      -    should i be thinking 'web services' even though the app (at this point) is intended to be in-house only?
      -    overview of deploying an SQL Server-integrated application

      i am not a COMPLETE idiot, but i would like a source that explains these things a bit better/simpler than the M$ documentation.  Theirs seems to be technically informative, but lacks the 'big picture'/'why exactly do i want to do this?'/overview tie-ins that i need at this point.

      other than that, just want to say 'hi' and that i'll probably be a more familiar face here in the coming months as i run into all the fun issues of app design that only real-live humans can answer...

      again, TIA & have a good day!

      =Kris



Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:02:55 GMT  
 some guidance for a newbie designing a database app in SQL Server 2k and VB.Net

cool - thanx again!

you answered my immediate question about SPs which is:  "should i be using them for everyday insert/update/delete operations?"

as for element K - i DO appreciate your help, Bernie, and mean no offense, but they are info-Nazis...  i probably wouldn't pay even if their journals weren't ridiculously expensive (~$15-20 an issue?!  :O )  if it's true that "information wants to be free", then information must really hate EK...  (as do i).  considering the amount they charge, u should be able to at least earn a degree at their site! :P

in all seriousness - My presence on this newsgroup is in direct protest against such services.  (granted, i am more of a consumer here than a provider, but that's expected to change in due time...)  it's only 'grass-roots' level community support like this that keeps sheer sanctity of just SHARING KNOWLEDGE alive.  that's why i have such utter respect and gratitude towards the 'mvps' - they surely have 'better things to do' than help out on these 'groups all day, but they do anyway - cuz they know that nurturing the up-and-comers of the community is critical to keeping it alive.  external services that try to charge for the info only take - they never give back! :(

...but i've digressed.

in any event THANX for your help! =)

  Hi Kris,

  Re stored procs, it's hard to suggest when to use them.  I use them often when creating tables, when copying a filtered dataset into a new table, when there are situations where the sproc has to run against different table names, etc.  I don't use them for updating, inserting, deleting, as I feel I have more control doing that in the vb .net environment.

  Re security and identifying the user, yes, it can be done pretty easily - your connection string should be variable sensitive to the logon of the user; getting this is not too difficult - you might want to look at a recent version of element K journal that has a recent article on this very situation.

  HTH,

  Bernie



Sat, 22 Oct 2005 02:22:16 GMT  
 some guidance for a newbie designing a database app in SQL Server 2k and VB.Net

Hi Kris,

My pleasure - glad to be of help.

Regards,

Bernie

  cool - thanx again!

  you answered my immediate question about SPs which is:  "should i be using them for everyday insert/update/delete operations?"

  as for element K - i DO appreciate your help, Bernie, and mean no offense, but they are info-Nazis...  i probably wouldn't pay even if their journals weren't ridiculously expensive (~$15-20 an issue?!  :O )  if it's true that "information wants to be free", then information must really hate EK...  (as do i).  considering the amount they charge, u should be able to at least earn a degree at their site! :P

  in all seriousness - My presence on this newsgroup is in direct protest against such services.  (granted, i am more of a consumer here than a provider, but that's expected to change in due time...)  it's only 'grass-roots' level community support like this that keeps sheer sanctity of just SHARING KNOWLEDGE alive.  that's why i have such utter respect and gratitude towards the 'mvps' - they surely have 'better things to do' than help out on these 'groups all day, but they do anyway - cuz they know that nurturing the up-and-comers of the community is critical to keeping it alive.  external services that try to charge for the info only take - they never give back! :(

  ...but i've digressed.

  in any event THANX for your help! =)

    Hi Kris,

    Re stored procs, it's hard to suggest when to use them.  I use them often when creating tables, when copying a filtered dataset into a new table, when there are situations where the sproc has to run against different table names, etc.  I don't use them for updating, inserting, deleting, as I feel I have more control doing that in the vb .net environment.

    Re security and identifying the user, yes, it can be done pretty easily - your connection string should be variable sensitive to the logon of the user; getting this is not too difficult - you might want to look at a recent version of element K journal that has a recent article on this very situation.

    HTH,

    Bernie



Sat, 22 Oct 2005 05:51:43 GMT  
 
 [ 6 post ] 

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