Developing Windows Application 
Author Message
 Developing Windows Application

I plan to develop some Windows programs in TCL/TK.
They should be a close to the MS look & feel as possible.
TK lacks several features of MFC like Tooltips, dockable Windows...
I think, for some (or most) of these, there are substitutes.

Who has experience in this matter?

Johannes Schacht



Wed, 20 Jun 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Developing Windows Application

Quote:

>I plan to develop some Windows programs in TCL/TK.
>They should be a close to the MS look & feel as possible.
>TK lacks several features of MFC like Tooltips, dockable Windows...
>I think, for some (or most) of these, there are substitutes.

>Who has experience in this matter?

>Johannes Schacht

Implementations of tooltips appear in several DejaNews-
archived discussions.  Naive Windows users consistently
whine about the MDI (multiple document interface) they
expect, and that isn't particularly natural with Tk.  I
still don't have a satisfying response to this complaint.
--

Cameron Laird           http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html



Wed, 20 Jun 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Developing Windows Application

Quote:



> >I plan to develop some Windows programs in TCL/TK.
> >They should be a close to the MS look & feel as possible.
> >TK lacks several features of MFC like Tooltips, dockable Windows...

There is a Windows like toolkit at

    http://www.hobbs.wservice.com/tcl/

However, I found that Tcl/Tk is not 100% Windows like. For example,
buttons in toolbars dont exhibt the typical behaviour (e.g. raise when
the mouse is over them). There are several extensions for tooltips,
tabwindows or comboboxes, but you can (almost) always tell them apart
from other windows applications.

Making it look exactly like Microsoft is hard work. We are currently
trying to make our application as Windows-like as time permits, but 100%
looks like too much for me.

But then, Windows applications are much more diverse than, say, Mac
applications. (My guess is that Mac users are less tolerant to look &
feel violations. No flames please I *am* a Mac user). Depending on who
is going to use your program, you might as well succeed with native
Tcl/Tk and a few more widgets.

  Michael

--
Michael Himsolt          http://www.fmi.uni-passau.de/~himsolt



Thu, 21 Jun 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Developing Windows Application

Quote:



> >I plan to develop some Windows programs in TCL/TK.
> >They should be a close to the MS look & feel as possible.
> >TK lacks several features of MFC like Tooltips, dockable Windows...
> >I think, for some (or most) of these, there are substitutes.

> >Who has experience in this matter?

> >Johannes Schacht

> Implementations of tooltips appear in several DejaNews-
> archived discussions.  Naive Windows users consistently
> whine about the MDI (multiple document interface) they
> expect, and that isn't particularly natural with Tk.  I
> still don't have a satisfying response to this complaint.

FWIW, I remember a thread on dockable toolbars, too.  The idea, as I
recall, was to have two instances of the toolbar: one in a top level and
one in the main application window.  When the toolbar was docked, the
toplevel for the floating toolbar was withdrawn.  When the toolbar was
floating, the frame for the docked toolbar was removed (e.g., with pack
forget).

                                     Chris
--
Rens-se-LEER is a county.  RENS-se-ler is a city.  R-P-I is a school!



Sat, 23 Jun 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Developing Windows Application

Quote:




> > >I plan to develop some Windows programs in TCL/TK.
> > >They should be a close to the MS look & feel as possible.
> > >TK lacks several features of MFC like Tooltips, dockable Windows...

> There is a Windows like toolkit at

>     http://www.hobbs.wservice.com/tcl/

> However, I found that Tcl/Tk is not 100% Windows like. For example,
> buttons in toolbars dont exhibt the typical behaviour (e.g. raise when
> the mouse is over them).

Try this:

    button .b1 -text Foo
    button .b2 -text Bar
    button .b3 -text Baz

    foreach b { 1 2 3 } {
        set bg [.b$b cget -background]
        set fg [.b$b cget -foreground]
        .b$b configure \
            -relief flat -highlightthickness 0 \
            -activebackground $bg -activeforeground $fg
        bind .b$b <Enter> [list sink %W]
        bind .b$b <Leave> [list pop %W]

    }

    pack .b1 .b2 .b3 -side left -padx 1 -pady 1

    proc sink { W } {
        $W configure -relief raised
    }
    proc pop { W } {
        $W configure -relief flat
    }

--
Rens-se-LEER is a county.  RENS-se-ler is a city.  R-P-I is a school!



Sat, 23 Jun 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Developing Windows Application

Quote:





> > > >I plan to develop some Windows programs in TCL/TK.
> > > >They should be a close to the MS look & feel as possible.
> > > >TK lacks several features of MFC like Tooltips, dockable Windows...

> > There is a Windows like toolkit at

> >     http://www.hobbs.wservice.com/tcl/

> > However, I found that Tcl/Tk is not 100% Windows like. For example,
> > buttons in toolbars dont exhibt the typical behaviour (e.g. raise when
> > the mouse is over them).

> Try this:

>     button .b1 -text Foo
>     button .b2 -text Bar
>     button .b3 -text Baz

>     foreach b { 1 2 3 } {
>         set bg [.b$b cget -background]
>         set fg [.b$b cget -foreground]
>         .b$b configure \
>             -relief flat -highlightthickness 0 \
>             -activebackground $bg -activeforeground $fg
>         bind .b$b <Enter> [list sink %W]
>         bind .b$b <Leave> [list pop %W]

>     }

>     pack .b1 .b2 .b3 -side left -padx 1 -pady 1

>     proc sink { W } {
>         $W configure -relief raised
>     }
>     proc pop { W } {
>         $W configure -relief flat
>     }

Arrrgh.  Of course, these procs are named poorly.  At first, I
implemented this to sink the button on <Enter> and raise it back to flat
on <Leave>.  I fixed the relief setting but forgot to rename [sink].

                                    Chris
--
Rens-se-LEER is a county.  RENS-se-ler is a city.  R-P-I is a school!



Sat, 23 Jun 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Developing Windows Application

Quote:

> > However, I found that Tcl/Tk is not 100% Windows like. For example,
> > buttons in toolbars dont exhibt the typical behaviour (e.g. raise when
> > the mouse is over them).

> Try this:
> ...

Thanks a lot. Actually I already got this. My next exercise should be a
toolbar button widget 8-)

Seriously, we are currently in the task of window-izing our Graphlet
system, and thus have developed some Windows-similar widgets (the
combobox is not too window-ish now). Maybe we can release these widgets
as a separate package.

One thing I noticed: once we start making the program looking better on
Windows, it starts looking odd on UNIX. There goes your platform
independence.

  Michael

--
Michael Himsolt          http://www.fmi.uni-passau.de/~himsolt



Sat, 23 Jun 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Developing Windows Application

Quote:


> > > However, I found that Tcl/Tk is not 100% Windows like. For example,
> > > buttons in toolbars dont exhibt the typical behaviour (e.g. raise when
> > > the mouse is over them).

> > Try this:
> > ...

> Thanks a lot. Actually I already got this. My next exercise should be a
> toolbar button widget 8-)

> Seriously, we are currently in the task of window-izing our Graphlet
> system, and thus have developed some Windows-similar widgets (the
> combobox is not too window-ish now). Maybe we can release these widgets
> as a separate package.

> One thing I noticed: once we start making the program looking better on
> Windows, it starts looking odd on UNIX. There goes your platform
> independence.

>   Michael

A while ago a decision was made to change Tk so that rather than having
a common look and feel across all platforms it was moved to having a
more native look and feel. I personally would like to have the choice
as it depends on the application which you need.

--
Paul Duffin

IBM UK Laboratories Ltd., Hursley Park nr. Winchester
Internal: 7-246880      International: +44 1962-816880



Sun, 24 Jun 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Developing Windows Application

sputter...

At the very least, idioms such as was posted by Chris need to appear on
some sort of Tcl for Windows web page.

At the very best, they should be incorporated into Windows Tcl 'core'
behavior, so that Tk acts on Windows just like a Windows app.
--

<*> O- <URL: http://www.purl.org/NET/lvirden/>
Unless explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting
should be construed as representing my employer's opinions.



Tue, 26 Jun 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 
 [ 9 post ] 

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