Is there a new Tcl/Tk 8.4 Roadmap? 
Author Message
 Is there a new Tcl/Tk 8.4 Roadmap?

Is there a new/revised Tcl/Tk 8.4 Roadmap available?

The one at http://www.*-*-*.com/
to be out-of-date, and none of the TR#'d notes on the right appear to link
to anything...



Mon, 29 Dec 2003 06:49:25 GMT  
 Is there a new Tcl/Tk 8.4 Roadmap?

Quote:

> Is there a new/revised Tcl/Tk 8.4 Roadmap available?

Err... No.  What with the introduction of the TCT (good) and the
acquisition of Scriptics^WAjuba (bad) that document is a complete
fiction (other than being an extremely nice wishlist) and nobody's
got organised to create a new version.

What does this mean?  Well, if there's a feature you want in, and you
can both persuade the TCT that it is a good idea (we like being
persuaded) and can get it implemented, then it will go in.  But there
is no central organisation pushing new features in for a specific
purpose, so roadmaps have no real force.

In particular, the TCT has no collective resources to put towards
implementation of any features and has to rely on the goodness of
people for things to happen, though many members do what they can,
both in maintaining the core and developing new features.  So
contributing effort towards something is the best way to get a result
by far.

You can make things happen, but the only way to be sure that things
will happen is if you *make* them happen.  How you do this is up to
you...

Donal.
--

-- Actually, come to think of it, I don't think your opponent, your audience,
   or the metropolitan Tokyo area would be in much better shape.



Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:42:37 GMT  
 Is there a new Tcl/Tk 8.4 Roadmap?

Quote:

>> Is there a new/revised Tcl/Tk 8.4 Roadmap available?


Quote:
> ...
> You can make things happen, but the only way to be sure that things
> will happen is if you *make* them happen.  How you do this is up to
> you...

I would only add that you can see (and contribute to) the proposals
for changes in Tcl/Tk at

        http://purl.org/tcl/tip/

--
| Don Porter          Mathematical and Computational Sciences Division |

| http://math.nist.gov/~DPorter/                                  NIST |
|______________________________________________________________________|



Mon, 29 Dec 2003 22:58:09 GMT  
 Is there a new Tcl/Tk 8.4 Roadmap?


Quote:

>[...]
>You can make things happen, but the only way to be sure that things
>will happen is if you *make* them happen.  How you do this is up to
>you...

I haven't been working with Tcl/Tk for that long, but I've already
noticed there's a limit to what an outsider can do.  People can submit
bug reports, investigate the bugs, fix the code, and submit patches,
but it stops there.  Only the core can integrate patches.

OK, so I'm impatient and I'd like to see a new stable, bug fix release
every couple of months.  :)  I know most people wouldn't want releases
that fast though.

+++

Open Mash     <http://www.openmash.org/>



Mon, 29 Dec 2003 23:53:24 GMT  
 Is there a new Tcl/Tk 8.4 Roadmap?

Quote:
>> You can make things happen, ...


Quote:
> I haven't been working with Tcl/Tk for that long, but I've already
> noticed there's a limit to what an outsider can do.  People can submit
> bug reports, investigate the bugs, fix the code, and submit patches,
> but it stops there.  Only the core can integrate patches.

Slight correction: maintainers can integrate (bug fix) patches.
And anyone can be a maintainer.

If a bug in Tcl/Tk is holding you back, and the fix is ready,
waiting only for integration, by all means pester the appropriate
maintainer.  That's why their e-mail addresses are listed:

        http://purl.org/tcl/tip/24.tip               for Tcl
        http://purl.org/tcl/tip/30.tip               for Tk

--
| Don Porter          Mathematical and Computational Sciences Division |

| http://math.nist.gov/~DPorter/                                  NIST |
|______________________________________________________________________|



Tue, 30 Dec 2003 00:02:14 GMT  
 Is there a new Tcl/Tk 8.4 Roadmap?

Quote:

> OK, so I'm impatient and I'd like to see a new stable, bug fix release
> every couple of months.  :)  I know most people wouldn't want releases
> that fast though.

If you're willing to compile it yourself, you can get the HEAD of the
CVS tree as often as you like.  You'll find that the Tcl maintainers are
a disciplined enough bunch that the HEAD is generally more stable than
most vendors' released product!  And Tcl's 'alpha' and 'beta' releases
are usually well-nigh bulletproof; the 'alpha' and 'beta' designations
more warn users that 'we reserve the right to revise the way new features
work.'

--
73 de ke9tv/2, Kevin KENNY      GE Corporate R&D, Niskayuna, New York, USA



Tue, 30 Dec 2003 00:54:17 GMT  
 Is there a new Tcl/Tk 8.4 Roadmap?

Quote:

> If you're willing to compile it yourself, you can get the HEAD of the
> CVS tree as often as you like.  You'll find that the Tcl maintainers are
> a disciplined enough bunch that the HEAD is generally more stable than
> most vendors' released product!  And Tcl's 'alpha' and 'beta' releases
> are usually well-nigh bulletproof; the 'alpha' and 'beta' designations
> more warn users that 'we reserve the right to revise the way new features
> work.'

Our betas are really release candidates; they should be feature-compatible
with the final release, and it ought to be possible to use them to develop
extensions to go with the release (though you might need to recompile.)
With alphas, we don't guarantee feature-, bug-, or binary-compatability,
but we're always on the prowl for opportunities to get the bug count down.
The betas are also the time when we work on improving the demonstrations,
message catalogs and things like that.

I'm not sure if we'll do the betas and release from a branch in the source
tree, but if we did, it would allow people to start work on developing 9.0
as soon as the feature-freeze for 8.4 starts.  Which would be nice.

Donal.
--

-- The small advantage of not having California being part of my country would
   be overweighed by having California as a heavily-armed rabid weasel on our



Tue, 30 Dec 2003 16:35:02 GMT  
 Is there a new Tcl/Tk 8.4 Roadmap?


Quote:

>> OK, so I'm impatient and I'd like to see a new stable, bug fix release
>> every couple of months.  :)  I know most people wouldn't want releases
>> that fast though.

>If you're willing to compile it yourself, you can get the HEAD of the
>CVS tree as often as you like.   [...]

We distribute the Tcl/Tk source as part of our source code release so,
yes, I must compile it myself.  In fact, I probably recompile Tcl/Tk
a dozen times a day for development/configuration/testing.  This makes
me a lot less tolerant of compiler warning messages.

Quote:
>And Tcl's 'alpha' and 'beta' releases
>are usually well-nigh bulletproof; the 'alpha' and 'beta' designations
>more warn users that 'we reserve the right to revise the way new features
>work.'

Thanks for the suggestion, but we can't live with this last part.  Also,
since we distribute the source, it just wouldn't be right to use an
alpha or beta version.

+++

Open Mash     <http://www.openmash.org/>



Tue, 30 Dec 2003 23:59:35 GMT  
 Is there a new Tcl/Tk 8.4 Roadmap?


:OK, so I'm impatient and I'd like to see a new stable, bug fix release
:every couple of months.  :)  I know most people wouldn't want releases
:that fast though.

Actually, the idea of release often (as long as the code is passing all
the test suite cases) seems reasonable to me, and in fact is generally how
things work in Tcl.  Tcl 8.3.2 was released last August.  About that same
time, code was starting to move into SourceForge.  Before the next release
could occur, in October/November of 2000, Ajuba Solutions was sold -
this put things into a kind of freeze because some of the people doing
work on the core 'were scattered'; the idea of tcl and tk maintainers
wasn't fully visualized.  During December - February, the details of how
things could/should work were ironed out, SF went through a terrible period
of problems, and finally Tcl/Tk 8.3.3 was released during the April-May
time frame.  So its only been 2-3 months since the last stable bug fix
release.  The intent was that this time, rather than simply a bug fix
release, new features would be added and the version incremented to 8.4.
However, the community hasn't been flooding the TCT with new feature code
from what I can tell.  To backpedal, and try to divide things into
fixes and features and somehow split the source tree seems like a big
effort to me, likely to take a lot of time.  On the other hand, releasing
8.4 without some of the hoped for features, like a megawidget structure
(what else major was envisioned but has yet to materialize?), might be something
the TCT could consider - if the community is willing to yet even longer
until things like comboboxes, etc. appear in Tk.

--
--
"See, he's not just anyone ... he's my son."  Mark Schultz

Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting



Wed, 31 Dec 2003 02:29:54 GMT  
 
 [ 9 post ] 

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