spin doctors at O'reilly canned tcl/tk event due to important developments. woohoo!! 
Author Message
 spin doctors at O'reilly canned tcl/tk event due to important developments. woohoo!!

: Apparently Tcl/Tk at the O'Reilly open source has been canned.

: Thanks a lot for nothing O'Reilly.

this is rather disturbing.  have you communicated with the
Usenix folks who were supposed to be in some kind of
collaboration on this conference?  sorry, I got buried in
day-job issues and have not been involved at all in
the ORA OpenSource conf plan, so I am clueless.  I thought
the idea was that Usenix and ORA were to have cooperated
in integrating a mini-Tcl-con into the OpenSource event.

So does this mean that people attending the event will now
get zero exposure to Tcl/Tk?  This must be how tcl/tk goes
on being the best kept secret of the industry :-)

de



Fri, 13 Dec 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 spin doctors at O'reilly canned tcl/tk event due to important developments. woohoo!!

Yes, as others have stated, O'Reilly cancelled the Tcl track at the OSSC.
As Scott Redman noted, it was because not enough people registered _for
the Tcl track_.  At registration time, people had the option to specify
which track they were most interested in; apparently, an extremely small
number (fewer than a dozen) people marked "Tcl" as the track they were
most interested in.  O'Reilly, after talking with some people here at
Ajuba (at least with Brent Welch, I believe with Jeffrey as well), decided
that it would do Tcl more harm than good to be represented by 10 people at
a conference attended by more than 1,000 Perl users.

When the track was cancelled, O'Reilly emailed me personally to let me
know, and offered me the option to maintain my registration or cancel it,
with a phone number to call with my decision.  When I called, they
cancelled my registration as I asked them to, no hassles.  I assume that
they contacted all the registrants who marked Tcl as their primary track;
I can only guess that those who were not thus contacted did not mark Tcl
as their primary track.

I believe Brent posted a message here late last week about this, before
the cancellation actually occurred.  He was looking for a headcount of
people who were going; obviously, not enough people replied to that post.
Yes, this was perhaps not the best medium for obtaining that poll
information, but Brent was working on very short notice (I think he had
maybe 1 or 2 days to get back to O'Reilly with an advisory decision of
some kind).

I have no doubt that the low registration was due to the Tcl2K conference
and the Tcl Europe conference; most companies won't pay to send their
people to two or more Tcl conferences in a single year.  It just doesn't
really make sense for them.  It is unfortunate that the track was
cancelled, but I believe that it was in the best interests of the
community to do so.  I look forward to a spectacular conference in 2001.

With regards to sticking with USENIX for the conference versus working
with O'Reilly, remember that in many ways, it was not really our choice.
The Tcl conference was not really a viable one for USENIX, which deals
best with very large conferences (that is, thousands of attendees), and
seems to lack the machinery for handling smaller (low hundreds of
attendees) conferences.  I believe that USENIX probably would have
dropped the conference within a few years anyway.  By agreeing to attach
the Tcl conference to the OSSC, O'Reilly, I believe, is really helping to
keep the Tcl conference alive.

   Eric Melski                            The Other Tcl Guy
   ericm at ajubasolutions.com            Ajuba Solutions



Fri, 13 Dec 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 spin doctors at O'reilly canned tcl/tk event due to important developments. woohoo!!
Apparently Tcl/Tk at the O'Reilly open source has been canned.

Thanks a lot for nothing O'Reilly.

First I get urged to sign up for the early bird prices.
then  less than two days later they can the event.
Pretty bush league in my opinion. Even better is the lame
letter i got..

------------------
Dear Michael,

The O'Reilly Open Source Convention and The Perl Conference 4.0 are just
a
few weeks away and we wanted to give you a quick update on the two
events.

Program Changes: If you have not checked the program schedule lately, we
encourage you to do so.  There have been updates to the program in both
the
Perl Conference and the Open Source Convention that you will want to
note.
A great way to keep track of your schedule is to use the conference's
interactive scheduler at  http://www.oreillynet.com/os2000/index.csp.

The most important program change that we need to let you know about is
the
cancellation of the Tcl/Tk track and tutorials.  While we never like to
cancel a track, in this case,  it is actually part of an important
development in the Tcl/Tk community that will result in a bigger and
better
Tcl/Tk conference to be hosted in conjunction with the Open Source
Convention next year.  O'Reilly and Associates is working with the
USENIX
Association to create a single dynamic Tcl event that combines the best
of
a USENIX event, including refereed papers, with the hands-on practical
training that O'Reilly is known for.   Watch for more details on next
year
and please accept our apologies for the cancellation this year.
--------------------

So they cancelled the track because of an "important development?"

..Yeah ...right.

they and usenix (or whomever) decided to do this a _long time ago_
and only now they decide to cancel this one due to "important
developments".

sorry for the rant but this kind of smiley face
spin doctoring really annoys me.

just say "due to lack of interest we flushed the tcl/tk events"
for god's sake..

now i have to try to get my money back. what a thrilling
experience i'm going to have doing that.

-mike hoegeman.



Sat, 14 Dec 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 spin doctors at O'reilly canned tcl/tk event due to important developments. woohoo!!
From what I know, there was not enough critical mass to warrant
a Tcl/Tk track at the conference this time around.  This is
probably due to a few things, including the Tcl2k conference
only being a few months ago, the Tcl Europe meeting a few
weeks ago, and the price tag with the Open Source Conference.

I don't know what Usenix and/or O'Reilly are up to, but I wouldn't
be surprised if the statement in the message is actually true.

-- Scott

Quote:


> : Apparently Tcl/Tk at the O'Reilly open source has been canned.

> : Thanks a lot for nothing O'Reilly.

> this is rather disturbing.  have you communicated with the
> Usenix folks who were supposed to be in some kind of
> collaboration on this conference?  sorry, I got buried in
> day-job issues and have not been involved at all in
> the ORA OpenSource conf plan, so I am clueless.  I thought
> the idea was that Usenix and ORA were to have cooperated
> in integrating a mini-Tcl-con into the OpenSource event.

> So does this mean that people attending the event will now
> get zero exposure to Tcl/Tk?  This must be how tcl/tk goes
> on being the best kept secret of the industry :-)

> de



Sat, 14 Dec 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 spin doctors at O'reilly canned tcl/tk event due to important developments. woohoo!!

Quote:


> : Apparently Tcl/Tk at the O'Reilly open source has been canned.

> : Thanks a lot for nothing O'Reilly.

> this is rather disturbing.  have you communicated with the
> Usenix folks who were supposed to be in some kind of
> collaboration on this conference?  sorry, I got buried in
> day-job issues and have not been involved at all in
> the ORA OpenSource conf plan, so I am clueless.  I thought
> the idea was that Usenix and ORA were to have cooperated
> in integrating a mini-Tcl-con into the OpenSource event.

> So does this mean that people attending the event will now
> get zero exposure to Tcl/Tk?  This must be how tcl/tk goes
> on being the best kept secret of the industry :-)

yes it means zero exposure. ok there probabaly was not enough interest
for them to make a bunch of money. that's their mistake.
they should have come to that decision a long time ago.

apparently they can merrily gut the things i'm interested in at their
conference but not offer to refund my money.

now i have to go chase them around to get my money back.

i get the distinct feeling that not sticking with a
standalone usenix  tcl conference was a dumb idea.

-mike



Sat, 14 Dec 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 spin doctors at O'reilly canned tcl/tk event due to important developments. woohoo!!

Quote:

> Yes, as others have stated, O'Reilly cancelled the Tcl track at the OSSC.
> As Scott Redman noted, it was because not enough people registered _for
> the Tcl track_.  At registration time, people had the option to specify
> which track they were most interested in; apparently, an extremely small
> number (fewer than a dozen) people marked "Tcl" as the track they were
> most interested in.  O'Reilly, after talking with some people here at
> Ajuba (at least with Brent Welch, I believe with Jeffrey as well), decided
> that it would do Tcl more harm than good to be represented by 10 people at
> a conference attended by more than 1,000 Perl users.

I'm with you on the all of the above,
but I still believe O'Reilly did not do that good of a job managing the
whole thing. .. Like waiting this long to cancel it

-mike



Sat, 14 Dec 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 spin doctors at O'reilly canned tcl/tk event due to important developments. woohoo!!

Quote:


> : Apparently Tcl/Tk at the O'Reilly open source has been canned.

> : Thanks a lot for nothing O'Reilly.

> this is rather disturbing.  have you communicated with the
> Usenix folks who were supposed to be in some kind of
> collaboration on this conference?  sorry, I got buried in
> day-job issues and have not been involved at all in
> the ORA OpenSource conf plan, so I am clueless.  I thought
> the idea was that Usenix and ORA were to have cooperated
> in integrating a mini-Tcl-con into the OpenSource event.

> So does this mean that people attending the event will now
> get zero exposure to Tcl/Tk?  This must be how tcl/tk goes
> on being the best kept secret of the industry :-)

> de

Even more reason to hit the next conference with a tcl2001 coming out
party. It seems to me that its in some peoples interest to sink tcl (
and if you were outside the community wouldn't you see this cancellation
as the writing on the wall for tcl ?).
What we need to do to fight that is to show people tcl is a current
vibrant language. With the current prejudices we see in the States based
on old tcl we need to do more to put "new" tcl in their faces.
Could the launch of version 9.0 be timed to coincide with the next
conference (Jeff? Eric?)? As it appears we will be going into " the den
of vipers" at the next one why don't we do a big "Its new, its great, it
sings, it dances" sort of in your face, coming out thing there? Yes I
know that takes resources, but given that we have a year to get it
together, I'm sure the community can do a lot.

Gordon



Sat, 14 Dec 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 spin doctors at O'reilly canned tcl/tk event due to important developments. woohoo!!
Just looking around the O'Reilly site and found this page
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/pythonwin32/chapter/ch20.html
with the immortal quote
"Tcl
         The (mostly hidden) language used by Tk and, hence, used by
Tkinter to communicate with the Tk toolkit.
"

Seems to me that could be a good name for it,"Tcl The (mostly hidden)
language" ;0)



Sat, 14 Dec 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 spin doctors at O'reilly canned tcl/tk event due to important developments. woohoo!!

Quote:

> Just looking around the O'Reilly site and found this page
> http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/pythonwin32/chapter/ch20.html
> with the immortal quote
> "Tcl
>          The (mostly hidden) language used by Tk and, hence, used by
> Tkinter to communicate with the Tk toolkit.
> "

> Seems to me that could be a good name for it,"Tcl The (mostly hidden)
> language" ;0)

TCL     The Concealable Language.


Sat, 14 Dec 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 
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