Stubs, plus patch, dash patch, img, and more 
Author Message
 Stubs, plus patch, dash patch, img, and more

One of the frustrating experiences I deal with is conflicting needs of users.
Some users want/need the plus and dash patches.  Some want Tcl right from
Scriptics.  Others have need of the Kanji patches.

In the past, I've ended up with at least 3 or more versions of tclsh and
wish built.  Then, there are the extensions... At times, these have to
be built multiple times, for each of the variations.

Now that Tcl 8.1.1 supports Unicode, there is hope that I will eventually
be able to do without Kanji specific patches.  And there is the dream
that with the intervention of some sort of Tcl ombudsman might, eventually,
get the full functionality from the plus and dash patches into the core,
resulting in one set of interpreters <grin>....

In the meantime, I seem to recall some conjecture that somehow the Stubs
interface might aid somehow in this type of situation.  I'm uncertain
exactly how that might work, and so I thought I would ask - is it the
case that now, with Tcl 8.1.x, that I could build Img and other Stubs
compatible extensions, and get that one version to work with various
featured interpreters?  If that's the case, I do hope that extension
writers at least document, and preferably code init checks, the minimal
requirements for extensions to work...
--

<*> O- <URL: http://www.*-*-*.com/ ;
Unless explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting
should be construed as representing my employer's opinions.



Mon, 19 Nov 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Stubs, plus patch, dash patch, img, and more

Quote:

> If that's the case, I do hope that extension
> writers at least document, and preferably code init checks, the minimal
> requirements for extensions to work...

Seconded!!!!!!!

Lucky enough many do that already, only this information is not
easily accessible outside Scripticse:

Trf (Andreas Kupries)
  http://www.scriptics.com/live/showurl?i=software%2epatches%2etcl81&ur...

Img (me)
  http://www.scriptics.com/live/showurl?i=software%2epatches%2etk81b2&u...
  http://www.scriptics.com/live/showurl?i=software%2epatches%2etk81&url...
Tkspline (John Ellson)
  http://www.scriptics.com/live/showurl?i=software%2epatches%2etk81b2&u...

TclKit (Jean-Claude Wippler)
  http://www.scriptics.com/live/showurl?i=software%2epatches%2etcl81&ur...

;-)
--
Jan Nijtmans, CMG Arnhem B.V.


url:   http://home.wxs.nl/~nijtmans/



Mon, 19 Nov 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Stubs, plus patch, dash patch, img, and more

Quote:

> In the meantime, I seem to recall some conjecture that somehow the Stubs
> interface might aid somehow in this type of situation.  I'm uncertain
> exactly how that might work, and so I thought I would ask - is it the
> case that now, with Tcl 8.1.x, that I could build Img and other Stubs
> compatible extensions, and get that one version to work with various
> featured interpreters?

Tcl/Tk 8.0.3 already brought that partially: Any extension which
is built against 8.0.3 or higher will run with any other 8.0.x
version, no matter what patches are applied (8.0p2, 8.0.4plus ....).
Only the jump to 8.1 couldn't be made, that's where Stubs come in.

As soon as Tcl/Tk 8.0.6 is released with Stub support, extensions
can be compiled two ways:
- Without Stubs, then it will run with any 8.0.x version
  (even 8.0p2!!!!!), but not with 8.1.
- With Stubs, then it will run with 8.0.6, 8.1.x, 8.2.x, but
  not with any lower versions.

--
Jan Nijtmans, CMG Arnhem B.V.


url:   http://home.wxs.nl/~nijtmans/



Mon, 19 Nov 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Stubs, plus patch, dash patch, img, and more

I do not see Tcl/Tk 8.0.6 is necessary. It is better to upgrade all
to the 8.1 and with Stubs. Otherwise there is another round of
confusion with the version. 8.0 should be dead. It is very cost
to maintain multiple core code bases.

Quote:
> As soon as Tcl/Tk 8.0.6 is released with Stub support, extensions
> can be compiled two ways:
> - Without Stubs, then it will run with any 8.0.x version
>   (even 8.0p2!!!!!), but not with 8.1.
> - With Stubs, then it will run with 8.0.6, 8.1.x, 8.2.x, but
>   not with any lower versions.

> --
> Jan Nijtmans, CMG Arnhem B.V.


> url:   http://home.wxs.nl/~nijtmans/

--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Chang LI,       Neatware

web:            http://www.neatware.com
--------------------------------------------------------------


Mon, 19 Nov 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Stubs, plus patch, dash patch, img, and more

Quote:
> As soon as Tcl/Tk 8.0.6 is released with Stub support, extensions
> can be compiled two ways:
> - Without Stubs, then it will run with any 8.0.x version
>   (even 8.0p2!!!!!), but not with 8.1.

Are you sure?  I thought the 8.1.x releases supported stub-enabled
extensions, but I didn't think it required them.

--
| Don Porter, D.Sc.   Mathematical and Computational Sciences Division |

| http://math.nist.gov/mcsd/Staff/DPorter/                        NIST |
|______________________________________________________________________|



Mon, 19 Nov 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Stubs, plus patch, dash patch, img, and more

Quote:


> I do not see Tcl/Tk 8.0.6 is necessary. It is better to upgrade all
> to the 8.1 and with Stubs. Otherwise there is another round of
> confusion with the version. 8.0 should be dead. It is very cost
> to maintain multiple core code bases.

I disagree. A lot of people may not be too happy with the processing overhead
brought on by UTF. I know I'm one of them. But the stubs are a nice thing to
have. So for some of my applications, 8.0.6 would be a better way to go than
even 8.1.1. Unless there's going to be a --disable-utf flag. To me 8.0.6 is
Tcl 8.1.1 with --disable-utf.

L

--
Penguin Power!

Laurent Duperval
CGI - FWFM Project
Phone: (514) 391-9523



Mon, 19 Nov 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Stubs, plus patch, dash patch, img, and more
Tkspline is now available with Stub support from:

    http://www.tcltk.com/ftp/ellson/Tkspline0.2.tar.gz

This extension adds an additional "spline" smoothing method
to canvas lines and polygons.  

Tested - with stubs:  linux, tk8.1.1 with dash patches
     - without stubs: solaris, tk8.0.5 with dash patches

There is a screenshot of the splinetest.tcl display here:

    http://www.tcltk.com/ftp/ellson/Tkspline0.2.example.gif

John Ellson



Mon, 19 Nov 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Stubs, plus patch, dash patch, img, and more

Quote:



> > I do not see Tcl/Tk 8.0.6 is necessary. It is better to upgrade all
> > to the 8.1 and with Stubs. Otherwise there is another round of
> > confusion with the version. 8.0 should be dead. It is very cost
> > to maintain multiple core code bases.

> I disagree. A lot of people may not be too happy with the processing overhead
> brought on by UTF. I know I'm one of them. But the stubs are a nice thing to
> have. So for some of my applications, 8.0.6 would be a better way to go than
> even 8.1.1. Unless there's going to be a --disable-utf flag. To me 8.0.6 is
> Tcl 8.1.1 with --disable-utf.

Yes. I am not happy too. Your suggestion is a good solution for 8.1.
Is it possible to add a new command?

        enable utf
        disable utf

and for thread

        enable thread
        disable thread

All the extensions should be unified to the stub enable.
What I expect is one code base rather than two.

Quote:

> L

> --
> Penguin Power!

> Laurent Duperval
> CGI - FWFM Project
> Phone: (514) 391-9523


--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Chang LI,       Neatware

web:            http://www.neatware.com
--------------------------------------------------------------


Mon, 19 Nov 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Stubs, plus patch, dash patch, img, and more

Quote:

> One of the frustrating experiences I deal with is conflicting needs of users.
> Some users want/need the plus and dash patches.  Some want Tcl right from
> Scriptics.  Others have need of the Kanji patches.

> In the past, I've ended up with at least 3 or more versions of tclsh and
> wish built.  Then, there are the extensions... At times, these have to
> be built multiple times, for each of the variations.

> Now that Tcl 8.1.1 supports Unicode, there is hope that I will eventually
> be able to do without Kanji specific patches.  And there is the dream
> that with the intervention of some sort of Tcl ombudsman might, eventually,
> get the full functionality from the plus and dash patches into the core,
> resulting in one set of interpreters <grin>....

> In the meantime, I seem to recall some conjecture that somehow the Stubs
> interface might aid somehow in this type of situation.  I'm uncertain
> exactly how that might work, and so I thought I would ask - is it the
> case that now, with Tcl 8.1.x, that I could build Img and other Stubs
> compatible extensions, and get that one version to work with various
> featured interpreters?  If that's the case, I do hope that extension
> writers at least document, and preferably code init checks, the minimal
> requirements for extensions to work...

The plus patches contain improvements to the configure scripts and
Makefiles, plus a lot of patches which have not yet gotten into the
official release. Stubs will not help with this.

The dash patches extend the Tk canvas in a variety of ways which
necessitate the addition of a number of options to each canvas item. I
have had a little look in this area and it would certainly be possible
(with a little hackery) to make the dash patches a loadable extension,
EXCEPT for onething. When you create a canvas item you have a table
of function calls which define the behaviour of the canvas items, it is
possible to intercept the calls through the table to change the
behaviour and add new options to a canvas item. Unfortunately in some
cases the functions which make up the table are not called through
the table but instead are called directly circumventing any change in
behaviour.

As I have not had a detailed look at the dash patches I cannot say
whether even if the above was sorted out whether it would be possible
to add the functionality through an extension but it would be closer.

--
Paul Duffin

IBM UK Laboratories Ltd., Hursley Park nr. Winchester
Internal: 7-246880      International: +44 1962-816880



Mon, 19 Nov 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Stubs, plus patch, dash patch, img, and more

Quote:


> > As soon as Tcl/Tk 8.0.6 is released with Stub support, extensions
> > can be compiled two ways:
> > - Without Stubs, then it will run with any 8.0.x version
> >   (even 8.0p2!!!!!), but not with 8.1.

> Are you sure?  I thought the 8.1.x releases supported stub-enabled
> extensions, but I didn't think it required them.

It doesn't. Jan is making the point about working with two different
versions of the Tcl library which have different names.

Some platforms (e.g. those without backlinking) have a hard coded name
of the library in the executable so you can only use the extension with
the library which has the same name. e.g. if you build against tcl80.lib
then you must run with tcl80.dll, as Stubs eliminates the need for this
hard coded name you can run the same extension against different
versions of the library.

--
Paul Duffin

IBM UK Laboratories Ltd., Hursley Park nr. Winchester
Internal: 7-246880      International: +44 1962-816880



Tue, 20 Nov 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Stubs, plus patch, dash patch, img, and more

Quote:




> > > I do not see Tcl/Tk 8.0.6 is necessary. It is better to upgrade all
> > > to the 8.1 and with Stubs. Otherwise there is another round of
> > > confusion with the version. 8.0 should be dead. It is very cost
> > > to maintain multiple core code bases.

> > I disagree. A lot of people may not be too happy with the processing overhead
> > brought on by UTF. I know I'm one of them. But the stubs are a nice thing to
> > have. So for some of my applications, 8.0.6 would be a better way to go than
> > even 8.1.1. Unless there's going to be a --disable-utf flag. To me 8.0.6 is
> > Tcl 8.1.1 with --disable-utf.

> Yes. I am not happy too. Your suggestion is a good solution for 8.1.
> Is it possible to add a new command?

>         enable utf
>         disable utf

> and for thread

>         enable thread
>         disable thread

> All the extensions should be unified to the stub enable.
> What I expect is one code base rather than two.

Unfortunately 8.1 relies on UTF for its binary support, rather than
fixing it properly by adding lengths to some of the APIs.

Also threading is so low level that it is a compile time switch.

--
Paul Duffin

IBM UK Laboratories Ltd., Hursley Park nr. Winchester
Internal: 7-246880      International: +44 1962-816880



Tue, 20 Nov 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 Stubs, plus patch, dash patch, img, and more

Speaking of Img - when I attempt to compile Img 1.2 on Solaris 2.6 using
Sun's compilers and Tcl 8.1.1, I get errors because of the attempts in
libjpeg and libtiff to use something called "INLINE".  I commented out
the inline definitions, but I was wondering what the 'correct' fix was.
Sun's compiler doesn't seem to understand either __inline__ or inline .
--

<*> O- <URL: http://www.purl.org/NET/lvirden/>
Unless explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting
should be construed as representing my employer's opinions.



Thu, 22 Nov 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 
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