tclsh integration in busybox 
Author Message
 tclsh integration in busybox

Hello!

Anybody tried to integrate tclsh in busybox? I've googled around and
couldn't
find references of patches.

TIA

/CM



Tue, 23 Sep 2008 17:55:01 GMT  
 tclsh integration in busybox
Quote:

> Hello!

> Anybody tried to integrate tclsh in busybox? I've googled around and
> couldn't
> find references of patches.

well the busybox binary is ~250k
libtcl8.4 is 750k on my system and needs libm ( ~175k ) and libc (1.4M)
even if a dietlibc or similar could be used it would still be slightly
overweight.

jim or similar might be an idea

there once was a linux-kernel/distribution targeting embedded systems
that was modified to do a lot with tcl scripts instead of dedicated binarys.

busybox similar functionality would have been inclusive afaik.

look around for Etlinux by Alessandro Rubini, ( 1999 -- 2001 timeframe )

http://cvs.gnudd.com/index.cgi/etlinux-3.0/     ( recent activity )

uwe



Tue, 23 Sep 2008 18:26:34 GMT  
 tclsh integration in busybox

Uwe Klein ha scritto:

Quote:

> > Hello!

> > Anybody tried to integrate tclsh in busybox? I've googled around and
> > couldn't
> > find references of patches.

> well the busybox binary is ~250k
> libtcl8.4 is 750k on my system and needs libm ( ~175k ) and libc (1.4M)
> even if a dietlibc or similar could be used it would still be slightly
> overweight.

Indeed 8.4 is a bit too big however with 7.6  I managed to get it into
262808 bytes
but having a very small flash and no shared libs I was thinking to
reduce the
size by making it into a busybox applet thus avoiding and extra static
copy of
libc stuff.

Quote:
> jim or similar might be an idea

Yeah, already looked at jim and others, however I feel that the level
of support
and stable-ness cannot be compared with standard tcl releases.

Quote:
> there once was a linux-kernel/distribution targeting embedded systems
> that was modified to do a lot with tcl scripts instead of dedicated binarys.

> busybox similar functionality would have been inclusive afaik.

> look around for Etlinux by Alessandro Rubini, ( 1999 -- 2001 timeframe )

> http://cvs.gnudd.com/index.cgi/etlinux-3.0/        ( recent activity )

This stuff semms rock-dead

/CM



Tue, 23 Sep 2008 21:47:22 GMT  
 tclsh integration in busybox

Quote:

> Indeed 8.4 is a bit too big...

Not to pick on Capitan, but can anyone be more concrete than that?

When measuring Tcl's size, what should be measured, and what limit
should be a goal?

What size limitations would actually be useful and why?

Such information might be useful where vague complaints of "too big"
really aren't.

--
| Don Porter          Mathematical and Computational Sciences Division |

| http://math.nist.gov/~DPorter/                                  NIST |
|______________________________________________________________________|



Tue, 23 Sep 2008 21:55:12 GMT  
 tclsh integration in busybox

Quote:

> Uwe Klein ha scritto:
> size by making it into a busybox applet thus avoiding and extra static
> copy of
> libc stuff.

or return to dynamic loading. ..
Quote:

>>jim or similar might be an idea

> Yeah, already looked at jim and others, however I feel that the level
> of support
> and stable-ness cannot be compared with standard tcl releases.

it completely depends on what you want to achieve.

one other idea would be to wrap the system stuff for loading into tcl.
and be done with a conventional shell ( that was what etlinux did)

Quote:

>>there once was a linux-kernel/distribution targeting embedded systems
>>that was modified to do a lot with tcl scripts instead of dedicated binarys.

>>busybox similar functionality would have been inclusive afaik.

>>look around for Etlinux by Alessandro Rubini, ( 1999 -- 2001 timeframe )

>>http://cvs.gnudd.com/index.cgi/etlinux-3.0/     ( recent activity )
> This stuff semms rock-dead

seen the alps, rock lives!
if you look at the cvs entries you'l see last changes are from this year.
You may want to ask Alessandro about it.

uwe



Tue, 23 Sep 2008 22:02:43 GMT  
 tclsh integration in busybox

Don Porter ha scritto:

Quote:

> > Indeed 8.4 is a bit too big...

> Not to pick on Capitan, but can anyone be more concrete than that?

As I said I got tclsh 8.4 into 588568 bytes so I tried tclsh 7.6 that
resulted in a 262808 byte executable.

Quote:
> When measuring Tcl's size, what should be measured, and what limit
> should be a goal?

I would normally think about measuring bytes and not CPU cycles or
instruction cache flushes when jumping...

Quote:
> What size limitations would actually be useful and why?

When you have 2M in a flash to store everything you need even the last
byte is useful, sort of like programming on a PDP-11 64K I/D

Quote:
> Such information might be useful where vague complaints of "too big"
> really aren't.

What I would like is an easy method to strip out unneeded parts like
socket stuff, math (that I already did)

/CM



Tue, 23 Sep 2008 22:21:39 GMT  
 tclsh integration in busybox

Uwe Klein ha scritto:

Quote:

> > Uwe Klein ha scritto:

> > size by making it into a busybox applet thus avoiding and extra static
> > copy of
> > libc stuff.
> or return to dynamic loading. ..

would be nice but I'm stuck with this toolchain and cannot swap due to
time and monetary budget.

Quote:
> one other idea would be to wrap the system stuff for loading into tcl.
> and be done with a conventional shell ( that was what etlinux did)

Again, I'm stuck on this commercial toolchain. I did put on
the saleman hat proposing to use a homegronw toolchain but big
companies sometime prefer spending big money rather that going for
a much cheaper solution that has behind a one man company. ;-)

Quote:
> if you look at the cvs entries you'l see last changes are from this year.
> You may want to ask Alessandro about it.

I had a fast look at the cvs but still think tclsh in busybox is easier
to purse

/CM



Tue, 23 Sep 2008 22:28:54 GMT  
 tclsh integration in busybox
Just to quell my nosiness:

what platform are you developing for?

i have build little gimmicks with
SC400 2M Flash and 8M RAM. ( DilPC )

busybox and some c-progs bound with shellscripts.

uwe



Tue, 23 Sep 2008 22:47:27 GMT  
 tclsh integration in busybox

Quote:

>> > Indeed 8.4 is a bit too big...

Don Porter ha scritto:

Quote:
>> Not to pick on Capitan, but can anyone be more concrete than that?

> As I said I got tclsh 8.4 into 588568 bytes so I tried tclsh 7.6 that
> resulted in a 262808 byte executable.

Sorry to belabor this, but what specifically are you measuring?
Size of libtcl.so ?  What size limit on that would be useful?
What would a libtcl.so within the limit be able to do that one
exceeding the limit cannot?

--
| Don Porter          Mathematical and Computational Sciences Division |

| http://math.nist.gov/~DPorter/                                  NIST |
|______________________________________________________________________|



Tue, 23 Sep 2008 23:39:57 GMT  
 tclsh integration in busybox
Quote:


>>>>Indeed 8.4 is a bit too big...

> Don Porter ha scritto:

>>>Not to pick on Capitan, but can anyone be more concrete than that?


>>As I said I got tclsh 8.4 into 588568 bytes so I tried tclsh 7.6 that
>>resulted in a 262808 byte executable.

> Sorry to belabor this, but what specifically are you measuring?
> Size of libtcl.so ?  What size limit on that would be useful?
> What would a libtcl.so within the limit be able to do that one
> exceeding the limit cannot?

a typical linux minisystem has 2 or 4 MB Flash and 8 or 16MB ram

a compressed kernel and a compressed ramdisk go into flash
and are expanded/loaded into ram.

On one app my flash image is just short of 2MB
contains a compressed kernel ~500k + the following
in the ramdisk( expanded):
37.0k   /antctrl        # coreapp + config
332.0k  /bin            # busybox and stuff, the ash shell
2.0k    /dev            # nodes
78.0k   /etc            # system configs, rc scripts
2.0k    /home
1.5M    /lib            # libc, libm, libcrypt, libnss, kernel-modules
1.1M    /remote         # remote nfs mount used for debugging and stuff
                        # the machine must be able to run without this.
184.0k  /sbin           # some utils not contained in busybox
1.0k    /tmp
311.0k  /usr            # cron, shutdown, .. termcaps ...
15.0k   /var            

everything together controls one 7,5m or 10m parabolic Dish Antenna for
observing the radio emmisions of the sun.
control is either remote through GIN or local ( LCD + some buttons )
logging is through GIN.

uwe



Wed, 24 Sep 2008 00:35:04 GMT  
 
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