tcl plugin with IE 5.5 SP2 
Author Message
 tcl plugin with IE 5.5 SP2

   IE 5.5 SP2 and above don't support netscape style plugins.  Does this
effectivly disable the TCL plugin in these browsers?

       Thanks, JOE



Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:34:55 GMT  
 tcl plugin with IE 5.5 SP2

Quote:

>   IE 5.5 SP2 and above don't support netscape style plugins.  Does this
>effectivly disable the TCL plugin in these browsers?

>       Thanks, JOE

I'm amazed the tclplugin still exists.  It's way past "dire need for a redesign"
and a toe hold from "lost and forgotten".  Which is a shame because the thing is
a damn Java killer, IMO, if it was working right.  Absolutely NO serious work
has been done to the plugin since it was a Sun project and strangely referred to
as sunscript.  Was that 3 or 4 years ago now?

Remember the open source motto:

DIY or Die!
--

$ make war
make: *** No rule to make target `war'.  Stop.  Try `love' instead.



Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:33:22 GMT  
 tcl plugin with IE 5.5 SP2


:   IE 5.5 SP2 and above don't support netscape style plugins.  Does this
:effectivly disable the TCL plugin in these browsers?

Yes, as well as all other netscape style plugins, like Java, Quicktime, etc.
Apple solved the problem for Quicktime by using an ActiveX component.

Anyone have an idea to do something similar for Tcl?
--
--
"See, he's not just anyone ... he's my son."  Mark Schultz

Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting



Wed, 11 Feb 2004 21:12:20 GMT  
 tcl plugin with IE 5.5 SP2


Quote:

>>   IE 5.5 SP2 and above don't support netscape style plugins.  Does this
>>effectivly disable the TCL plugin in these browsers?

>>       Thanks, JOE

>I'm amazed the tclplugin still exists.  It's way past "dire need for a redesign"
>and a toe hold from "lost and forgotten".  Which is a shame because the thing is
>a damn Java killer, IMO, if it was working right.  Absolutely NO serious work
>has been done to the plugin since it was a Sun project and strangely referred to
>as sunscript.  Was that 3 or 4 years ago now?

                        .
                        .
                        .
"Current release is version 2.0 (2.0.200) - Jan 21st 1998".

I have hopes of rounding up a bit of funding for plugin
maintenance this fall.  More on that, later.
--


Business:  http://www.Phaseit.net
Personal:  http://starbase.neosoft.com/~claird/home.html



Thu, 12 Feb 2004 01:58:20 GMT  
 tcl plugin with IE 5.5 SP2
David

Laurent Demailly and I are the authors of the Tcl plugin. I refuse to work on it any
more, for personal reasons - I won't go into that on the newsgroup, sorry, so no use
asking. The last thing I did relating to it is to get it to be released to the
public domain, in the hope that someone might be interested in picking it up. If
that hasnt happened, it's an indication to me that the work wasn't all that
interesting and useful to begin with -- sorry.

So if you really think it's a worthwile thing, why not put your effort where your
mouth is? :)

By the way, I'm still at Sun happily working on Java. That's what pays the rent,
what can I say. I still love Tcl the language. I'm still releasing software for it
(see http://e4graph.sourceforge.net), but on my own agenda, not someone else's.

--JYL

Quote:


> >   IE 5.5 SP2 and above don't support netscape style plugins.  Does this
> >effectivly disable the TCL plugin in these browsers?

> >       Thanks, JOE

> I'm amazed the tclplugin still exists.  It's way past "dire need for a redesign"
> and a toe hold from "lost and forgotten".  Which is a shame because the thing is
> a damn Java killer, IMO, if it was working right.  Absolutely NO serious work
> has been done to the plugin since it was a Sun project and strangely referred to
> as sunscript.  Was that 3 or 4 years ago now?

> Remember the open source motto:

> DIY or Die!
> --

> $ make war
> make: *** No rule to make target `war'.  Stop.  Try `love' instead.



Thu, 12 Feb 2004 04:33:19 GMT  
 tcl plugin with IE 5.5 SP2

Quote:

>So if you really think it's a worthwile thing, why not put your effort where your
>mouth is? :)

Expect for Windows is my current attack mode.  I can only do one major overhaul
at a time.  I just one person :)  Maybe I need a staff and I'll call it
Scriptronics or something...
--

$ make war
make: *** No rule to make target `war'.  Stop.  Try `love' instead.



Thu, 12 Feb 2004 05:20:46 GMT  
 tcl plugin with IE 5.5 SP2

Quote:

>So if you really think it's a worthwile thing, why not put your effort where your
>mouth is? :)

First off, that Tcl_SetServiceMode() hack has got to go and a much better way of
reacting to the outside world should be invented/used.  As an API to the outside
world, letting alternate threads run Tcl APIs directly doesn't jive with the Tcl
model of threads.

When Tcl got "thread safety" around 8.2 or so, the plugin broke for obvious
reasons when run in IE who liked to fire a few calls into the plugin from
alternate threads.
--

$ make war
make: *** No rule to make target `war'.  Stop.  Try `love' instead.



Thu, 12 Feb 2004 05:35:08 GMT  
 tcl plugin with IE 5.5 SP2

Quote:

>So if you really think it's a worthwile thing, why not put your effort where your
>mouth is? :)

History lessons are good.  I like them.  Here's one for you.  I took the source
code for the 3 (or was it 4) versions of the plugin you provided and imported
them into a CVS tree.  I sent the tree to Jeff.  He put it into the scriptics'
CVS.  I also imported Jan Nijtmans Stubs work for what we where calling 2.1 .  I
tried to attack the external API thread problem, but realized something needed
to be invented to handle it.  That was over a year ago.  Here we are today.

I recently wrote a C++ library for handling threading issues with job posting
with Tcl's event loop, and the plugin would be a great place to put it.  What
the hell is Tcl_SetServiceMode() really doing anyways?  I can't grok it.
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/tomasoft/tes-1.3.zip

If someone would really like to have the plugin brought back from the dead, I'm
be very willing to negotiate a proposal for the job.
--

$ make war
make: *** No rule to make target `war'.  Stop.  Try `love' instead.



Thu, 12 Feb 2004 05:53:17 GMT  
 tcl plugin with IE 5.5 SP2
I don't have the expertise to update the plugin, I just want to add my voice
to the group that would like to see the plugin continue to exist in a usable
form. I use it with my students in math courses for interactive graphing
programs that I have written (that would take forever to write in Java). I
have given talks at math conferences on TCL/TK on how easy it is to use for
this sort of thing. It would be a shame to see the plugin disappear.

Bob Decker


Quote:
>    IE 5.5 SP2 and above don't support netscape style plugins.  Does this
> effectivly disable the TCL plugin in these browsers?

>        Thanks, JOE



Thu, 12 Feb 2004 13:44:41 GMT  
 tcl plugin with IE 5.5 SP2
Newbie de-lurking! While several threads here are generating new ideas
on how to make tcl young, hip and swingingly popular it's a bit
depressing to read about the stagnation of such an important aspect
(to me) of tcl's identity - the browser plugin made tcl stand out from
the 'scripting crowd'. I guess plugin-writing is becoming increasingly
passe nowadays, well, so it goes.

jon


Quote:
> I don't have the expertise to update the plugin, I just want to add my voice
> to the group that would like to see the plugin continue to exist in a usable
> form. I use it with my students in math courses for interactive graphing
> programs that I have written (that would take forever to write in Java). I
> have given talks at math conferences on TCL/TK on how easy it is to use for
> this sort of thing. It would be a shame to see the plugin disappear.

...


Thu, 12 Feb 2004 20:29:42 GMT  
 tcl plugin with IE 5.5 SP2


:When Tcl got "thread safety" around 8.2 or so, the plugin broke for obvious
:reasons when run in IE who liked to fire a few calls into the plugin from
:alternate threads.

When IE 5.5 SP2 removed netscape plugin support that broke the hopes of
using the code base in thefuture.

Hopefully another windows programmer will step forward to provide some
sort of comperable support for IE .

--
--
"See, he's not just anyone ... he's my son."  Mark Schultz

Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting



Thu, 12 Feb 2004 20:41:40 GMT  
 tcl plugin with IE 5.5 SP2

Quote:

> Newbie de-lurking! While several threads here are generating new ideas
> on how to make tcl young, hip and swingingly popular it's a bit
> depressing to read about the stagnation of such an important aspect
> (to me) of tcl's identity - the browser plugin made tcl stand out from
> the 'scripting crowd'. I guess plugin-writing is becoming increasingly
> passe nowadays, well, so it goes.

I don't think that plugin writing has necessarily become passe.  It is
more like there is a persistent resistance in the browser-using
community to installing plugins.  From my experience, users don't like
using plugins unless they come distributed with the browser.  This is
what gave Java the edge up over the Tcl/Tk plugin.  Java was already in
place when the browser was installed.  Of course, if you want to use
a more up-to-date Java, you have to install a plugin, but noone seems
to pay much attention to that fact. :-/

I would like to see the Tcl/Tk browser plugin persist.  The fact that
Netscape-style plugins are no longer being supported in IE is an
interesting wrinkle (I guess that is a consequence of Microsoft
"winning" the browser war).  Still the plugin appears to work with
up-to-date versions of Tcl/Tk.  I just helped to get it working with
Tcl/Tk 8.3.0 two weeks ago and it was a very simple change in the
configuration file (Thank you Google and c.l.t.!).  At work, I have
an interesting demo using the plugin that I'd like to expand into a
full-flegged application (Given I ever get management approval and
development money to do so.).

I've been wanting to get back involved with the plugin.  Right now,
I'm pretty well strapped into working on a large Tcl application at
home.  Perhaps I need to break off a piece of my time to look into
the plugin again.

BTW Regarding the plugin distribution issue mentioned above: Perhaps
it would be a good time to look into aligning the plugin with one
or more of the Open Source browsers that are gaining popularity.
Certainly Mozilla, but Konqueror and Nautilus are possibilities as
well (do they support plugins?).

--
Mac A. Cody



Fri, 13 Feb 2004 00:39:00 GMT  
 tcl plugin with IE 5.5 SP2

Quote:
>I guess plugin-writing is becoming increasingly
>passe nowadays, well, so it goes.

"passe" is an impression of a mode of use.  We're talking about the condition
and state of the source code for the tool that renders that mode of use.  Kinda
different...

"I ain't dead yet!" -- monty python, the great plague scene
--

C:\Dev\DevStudio60\VC98\Bin>nmake -nologo love
NMAKE : fatal error U1073: don't know how to make 'love'
Stop.



Fri, 13 Feb 2004 05:40:39 GMT  
 tcl plugin with IE 5.5 SP2
I know that Konqueror supports Netscape style plugins.  I don't know about
Nautilus...

Jeff


Quote:

> BTW Regarding the plugin distribution issue mentioned above: Perhaps
> it would be a good time to look into aligning the plugin with one
> or more of the Open Source browsers that are gaining popularity.
> Certainly Mozilla, but Konqueror and Nautilus are possibilities as
> well (do they support plugins?).

> --
> Mac A. Cody



Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:26:44 GMT  
 tcl plugin with IE 5.5 SP2


:BTW Regarding the plugin distribution issue mentioned above: Perhaps
:it would be a good time to look into aligning the plugin with one
:or more of the Open Source browsers that are gaining popularity.
:Certainly Mozilla, but Konqueror and Nautilus are possibilities as
:well (do they support plugins?).

Would the Tk look and feel match these browsers?

Also, I seem to recall Steve Ball was working on some xml and html
rendering engine from mozilla...

--
--
"See, he's not just anyone ... he's my son."  Mark Schultz

Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting



Fri, 13 Feb 2004 20:10:08 GMT  
 
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