Python 3000. Here we go again. 
Author Message
 Python 3000. Here we go again.

Hello,

Let's open healing wounds.
I've looked around on python.sourceforge.net and python.org but I still
can't find any official reference to python 3000.  I looked through the
PEPs, the SIGs, google, etc..

- has anyone been thinking about a new design for Python?
- is there any moderated forum specifically for Py3k brainstorming?

justification for my question in case I'm flamed again:   I want use
static typing.  I want real class methods.  I want to be crazy and derive
from an int. My programs could benefit from full lexical scoping. I *hope*
any such rewrite retains case sensitivity (yes there are SIGs devoted to
typing and scoping, but they don't necessarily relate to Py3k).

Thanks,

Roey (now the more stylish /R).



Fri, 04 Jul 2003 09:19:34 GMT  
 Python 3000. Here we go again.

    Roy> - has anyone been thinking about a new design for Python?
Yes.
    Roy> - is there any moderated forum specifically for Py3k brainstorming?
Not that I'm aware of.

As far as I know, Py3k is still mostly in Guido's head, though I imagine
he's been discussing it with his closest associates when they haven't been
working on Python2.0, Python2.1, migrating from CNRI to BeOpen, and
migrating from BeOpen to Digital Creations.  All these things have probably
conspired to push Py3k out a bit.  The Python2.1 release schedule was just
recently updated.  I think alpha1 is due out this week.  See PEP 226 for
details:

    http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0226.html

There has been little discussion of it on python-dev that I can recall and
that's only been tangential to other topics.  You can browse the python-dev
archives at

    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/

Your desires for static typing, real class methods, unification of types and
classes, lexical scoping and case sensitivity are shared by many other
people.  I doubt they will be neglected when the time comes to roll up
sleeves and get to work on Py3k.

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Fri, 04 Jul 2003 12:12:45 GMT  
 Python 3000. Here we go again.
[Roy Katz]

Quote:
> Let's open healing wounds.
> I've looked around on python.sourceforge.net and python.org but I
> still can't find any official reference to Python 3000.

P3K is just a cute name for "what might happen someday".  It really doesn't
have a concrete meaning beyond that.

Quote:
> ...
> - has anyone been thinking about a new design for Python?

Compared to Guido, many <wink>.  My *belief* is that reality will force
Guido and his team to stick with incremental change; a total "flag day"
redesign looks increasingly unlikely.

Quote:
> - is there any moderated forum specifically for Py3k brainstorming?

The Python world has no moderated forums at all, apart from
comp.lang.python.announce.  There's a Python-Dev mailing list whose archives
are readable (provided you can find them), but the only way to get on that
is to be invited by Guido, and the only sure way to get invited is to
establish a history of making solid contributions to Python development
(contributing amazing code, fixing insidious bugs, writing breathtaking
PEPs, ...).

Quote:
> justification for my question in case I'm flamed again:

Hey, you're just asking questions.  I suppose that's damned good *reason* to
flame you, though!  Hmm.  I'll think about it.

Quote:
> I want use static typing.  I want real class methods.  I want to
> be crazy and derive from an int. My programs could benefit from full
> lexical scoping. I *hope* any such rewrite retains case sensitivity
> (yes there are SIGs devoted to typing and scoping, but they don't
> necessarily relate to Py3k).

Contribute to the PEP process:  champion an idea and help make it happen:

    http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/

Note that lexical scoping is the subject of PEP 227; as the page says, it
may even be part of Python 2.1.  But note too that if it is, it won't happen
because someone asked for it, but because someone wanted it enough to do all
the work (incl. a tasteful yet irresistible sales job).

a-lot-like-real-life-ly y'rs  - tim



Fri, 04 Jul 2003 12:10:57 GMT  
 Python 3000. Here we go again.

Quote:

> - has anyone been thinking about a new design for Python?

Yes. Lots of people.

Quote:
> - is there any moderated forum specifically for Py3k brainstorming?

Well, c.l.py is not moderated, but it is still an excellent forum
for Py3K brainstorming.

Quote:
> My programs could benefit from full lexical scoping.

Python 2.1 is likely to have lexical scoping.

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Sat, 05 Jul 2003 00:18:02 GMT  
 Python 3000. Here we go again.
Of course, those of us with some amount of production
code written in Python 1.x and 2.x have a very hard
desire for Python 3K: backward compatibility.

Russell

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Fri, 04 Jul 2003 22:51:37 GMT  
 Python 3000. Here we go again.

Quote:

> Of course, those of us with some amount of production
> code written in Python 1.x and 2.x have a very hard
> desire for Python 3K: backward compatibility.

I suspect that this won't be a very big problem in reality. While
Py3K might be quite a bit less backward compatible with older Python
code, I think it will be very easy to compensate for these backwards
compatabilities. Besides, the schedule for 3K is quite amorphous,
and there will be probably a 2.x release while 3K is being developed --
I'm betting it will have warnings for all features that might hurt
portability to Py3K.
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Sat, 05 Jul 2003 07:46:53 GMT  
 Python 3000. Here we go again.


Quote:

>- has anyone been thinking about a new design for Python?
>- is there any moderated forum specifically for Py3k brainstorming?

I think this is about as close as you'll get:

http://www.*-*-*.com/
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Mon, 07 Jul 2003 09:22:16 GMT  
 Python 3000. Here we go again.
Aye, thanks :)

Roey


Quote:


> >- has anyone been thinking about a new design for Python?
> >- is there any moderated forum specifically for Py3k brainstorming?

> I think this is about as close as you'll get:

> http://www.*-*-*.com/
> --

> Androgynous poly {*filter*} vanilla {*filter*} het    <*>     http://www.*-*-*.com/
> Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

> A house is a machine to keep your cat dry.  --Aahz



Mon, 07 Jul 2003 11:31:30 GMT  
 Python 3000. Here we go again.
On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 18:18:02 +0200 (IST), Moshe Zadka

Quote:

>Python 2.1 is likely to have lexical scoping.

What is meant by lexical scoping?


Fri, 22 Aug 2003 21:10:22 GMT  
 Python 3000. Here we go again.


I would like to see aspects added. Maybe call it AspectPy?
If not that then at least full MOP features ( comes close, but not
really there ).



Fri, 22 Aug 2003 21:13:19 GMT  
 
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