Amzi Prolog versus LPA Prolog. 
Author Message
 Amzi Prolog versus LPA Prolog.

    I want to buy a commercial Prolog.
    Has anyone had any experience of Amzi Prolog or LPA Prolog ?  They
both look quite good but expensive. Which should I buy ?
    Or maybe Visual Prolog from a Danish company ?

            --- Martin Sondergaard.



Fri, 01 Dec 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 Amzi Prolog versus LPA Prolog.



Quote:
>    I want to buy a commercial Prolog.
>    Has anyone had any experience of Amzi Prolog or LPA Prolog ?  They
>both look quite good but expensive. Which should I buy ?
>    Or maybe Visual Prolog from a Danish company ?

Both LPA and Amzi have free trial versions which you can access from the
Web (http://www.amzi.com and http://www.lpa.co.uk). I suggest you use
these as the basis of your evaluation.

Also consider Quintus - now available from SICS (http://www.sics.se).
AFAIK there is no evaluation version.

Graham Thwaites
Grange Technology Ltd



Fri, 01 Dec 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 Amzi Prolog versus LPA Prolog.



Quote:
>    I want to buy a commercial Prolog.
>    Has anyone had any experience of Amzi Prolog or LPA Prolog ?  They
>both look quite good but expensive. Which should I buy ?
>    Or maybe Visual Prolog from a Danish company ?

Sorry if this isn't quite c.l.p material, but I'm interested...

Is there a particular reason you want a commercial Prolog?
Is it because you (or your manager) percieves *free* software to
a priori by *poor* software? Last I looked SWI Prolog which is
free was pretty good. (Actually we couldn't use it, but we were
making rather strenuous demands of it, and ended up using SICStus).

Thomas
ps See? I didn't even mention Mercury, which is free and high performance.
D'oh. :-)
--

Nail here [] for new monitor.  )O+



Fri, 01 Dec 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 Amzi Prolog versus LPA Prolog.



Quote:
>     I want to buy a commercial Prolog.
>     Has anyone had any experience of Amzi Prolog or LPA Prolog ?  They
> both look quite good but expensive. Which should I buy ?
>     Or maybe Visual Prolog from a Danish company ?

>             --- Martin Sondergaard.

I experiment with LPA and some with Amzi, in past with Turbo Prolog (today
Visual).

LPA has source debbuger, its fast,handling windows in prolog ( not simple
as Basic), run on win 32s.

Amzi dont have handling windows but if you integrate it with Visual Basic
you
get best of both worlds ( Basic visual components with prolog reasoning).

Visual prolog - not quit prolog, more like fast language with prolog
syntax. But
yuo can make real programs with it (fast and efective).

Maybe the LPA is best choice for only prolog programmer, Amzi is better
when
you need real program with reports,multi user database and fancy interface
( Basic
supplay these).



Sun, 03 Dec 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 Amzi Prolog versus LPA Prolog.

Quote:

>    I want to buy a commercial Prolog.
>    Has anyone had any experience of Amzi Prolog or LPA Prolog ?  They
>both look quite good but expensive. Which should I buy ?
>    Or maybe Visual Prolog from a Danish company ?

I think the main thing to note is that Visual Prolog is not the same
language as the others.  It is a typed language; the others are untyped.
It's a nice product, but very little Prolog code will run in it without
substantial modification.

LPA and Amzi both have good free trial packages.  My impression is that LPA
is closer to the ISO standard; Amzi is perhaps a little farther along in
giving you ways to integrate it with other Windows software.



Sun, 03 Dec 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 Amzi Prolog versus LPA Prolog.

...

Quote:

> LPA looks great, and I really like the extensions to it like Flint and
> Flex.  But I must have a full-featured development system with a
> server for VB/C++, ODBC support, and no royalties on distributed
> programs.  LPA with tech support for a year, no royalties, the server,
> OO extensions and Flint and Flex are a little over the entire total of
> my software-tools budget for an entire year.  I may still consider
> LPA, if there were a 32-bit full-featured trial version, but the
> monetary commitment is too great when I can only try a Win3.1 version
> (and perhaps even then).

The 28-day trial version is a full 32-bit prolog system; it is just that
it can run quite happily on Windows 3.x (as well as NT and 95), because
it only uses the Win32s subset.

Quote:

> Amzi! let me download a 32-bit version which is good for 90 days as
> opposed to LPA's 16-bit 30-day version.

Pls see above comment.

Long term evaluation copies of ALL available LPA software products are
available (along with hard copy manuals), upon completion of the
relevant PEA form.

Clive Spenser
www.lpa.co.uk



Tue, 05 Dec 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 Amzi Prolog versus LPA Prolog.

Quote:

> Will the trial version handle long filenames?

> - Zeno

Yes

Clive



Sat, 09 Dec 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 Amzi Prolog versus LPA Prolog.

Hi,

I am so shocked that someone actually posted something other than 'How
do I append two lists together?' that I think a response is worth while:

Bugs:
        I have tried both Amzi and LPA and found that LPA was a little buggy
when writing serious applications.  Amzi has had its moments but recent
version are pretty good.  You can get quite serious with Quintus ( i.e.
with floating point, tcp support, external db access and so on )

Support:
        I rated LPA, at best, average to nil in support and Amzi I rate
exceptional.  Quintus support is very frustrating -- for the most part
you are on your own unless you have lots of time on your hands!

Standards:
        Amzi lacked good external support libraries.  LPA a little better.
Quintus is quite good.  Ditto - what Mike Covington says - avoid any
PROLOG that forces you to type declare anything!

Portability:
        Amzi runs on almost anything.  LPA not sure(NT).  Quintus runs on
Solaris/NT and is quite childish about not running on Linux.

Speed:
        Quintus is quite quick.

Development:
        Amzi has a pretty fair environment for NT.

Application Deployment:
        Quintus applications package quite nicely ( once you figure out how to
compile - qpc/qld/C++ compiles, etc. ).  Amzi carries a run-time program
with its external applications.  Cannot remember what LPA did before I
gave up on it.

Investment:
        Quintus is sort-of in never-never land since it got bought out by
SICS.  Amzi is smallish shop -- hopefully will be around forever - also
American if that is important to you!  You might try looking into SICTUS
as well -- they have an active mailing list.

... just some thoughts .. hope this helps ...

Al,



Sun, 10 Dec 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 Amzi Prolog versus LPA Prolog.

    Thanks for your replies everyone.
    I see that Michael Covington, author of some books in prolog, was one
of the people who replied.  I'm flattered.  I hope to buy his book on
Natural Language Processing.

    I've downloaded Amzi prolog from Amzi's website, and I've been trying
it out.
    I've tried out its links to Delphi, (which is visual Pascal from
Borland ).  These are easy to use.  So I am now sure that I can combine an
Object_Oriented front end written in Delphi with a back end written in
prolog.
Amzi's "Logic Server" joins the two together.
    So I'm now in the process of converting a program I wrote for SWI
prolog, source file 250K, into Amzi prolog.  It seems straightforward.
I've nearly finished it after just 2 days.
    The next job is to connect the prolog program with a front end that
I've already written in Delphi.  My front end provides a pull-down menu
with "File open" dialog boxes etc for choosing filenames when opening and
saving files.  This will make my prolog program easier to use, and make it
look professionally finished.

    I've found that using Amzi prolog is easier than using SWI prolog
because it comes with a good set of Help pages.  ( These are not normal
Windows Help files, they are HTML pages so that you search through the
Help pages using your web browser ! )   This makes it much easier to find
just the predicate that I want, so developing a program using Amzi prolog
is rather faster than using SWI prolog.  With SWI prolog I couldn't find
the predicates I want in the poor SWI  manual.
    So I recommend that anyone using SWI prolog should seriously consider
going over to using Amzi prolog instead.  They offer a free prolog
interpreter, which they call the "prolog Listener".  You can download this
from their website, "www.amzi.com" .  They also supply a compiler with it,
but I think this is time-limited (90 days), though I don't really know.
It seems to work fine for me so far.

    I may also try out LPA prolog, but as their downloadable trial version
is time-limited to only 30 days, I don't think they offer as much test
time as they should.  Not as much as Amzi anyway.
    I expect to stay with Amzi prolog.  I'm quite happy with it.

            Martin Sondergaard.



Mon, 11 Dec 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 Amzi Prolog versus LPA Prolog.

I haven't tried Amzi, but have used LPA Prolog for building a serious
commercial application.  Our experience was rather more positive than Al
Regina's  (using version 3.3: the current one is probably 3.5).

Bugs:

Very few, mostly pretty obscure, and nothing that could not be worked
round.  Some of the mathematical functions seemed to give less precision
than could be achieved.  

Support:

Good: the one potentially {*filter*} bug we hit we got a work-around for and an
offer of a special patched version if that wasn't good enough.  

Portability

We have run LPA under 3.1, 95 and NT.

Development:

I liked the LPA interactive environment, despite the Windows limitation to
30K edit windows (hence lots of small files).  It deals well with
event-driven Windows code, which is not a trivial achievement.

Application Deployment:

Straightforward in LPA: you get an overlay file to run on top of the Prolog
exe.

Tim Clement
Adelard



Mon, 11 Dec 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 Amzi Prolog versus LPA Prolog.

Quote:

> Hi,

> I am so shocked that someone actually posted something other than 'How
> do I append two lists together?' that I think a response is worth while:

Agreed

Quote:
> Bugs:
>         I have tried both Amzi and LPA and found that LPA was a little buggy
> when writing serious applications.  Amzi has had its moments but recent
> version are pretty good.  You can get quite serious with Quintus ( i.e.
> with floating point, tcp support, external db access and so on )

LPA would be very grateful for more details here (though I appreciate it is
probably a long time ago now)

Quote:
> Support:
>         I rated LPA, at best, average to nil in support and Amzi I rate
> exceptional.  Quintus support is very frustrating -- for the most part
> you are on your own unless you have lots of time on your hands!

Again, I am suprised to come across such comments.
AFAIK, LPA does respond 'quite' quickly to all reported problems.

Quote:

> Standards:
>         Amzi lacked good external support libraries.  LPA a little better.
> Quintus is quite good.  Ditto - what Mike Covington says - avoid any
> PROLOG that forces you to type declare anything!

Hopefully, ISO will enable this area to grow.

Quote:
> Portability:
>         Amzi runs on almost anything.  LPA not sure(NT).  Quintus runs on
> Solaris/NT and is quite childish about not running on Linux.

LPA's main usage is on NT, but also works fine on Windows 95 and 3.x

Quote:
> Speed:
>         Quintus is quite quick.

> Development:
>         Amzi has a pretty fair environment for NT.

I believe LPA is regarded as having an excellent integrated development
environment (as far as most Prolog systems are concerned), with probably the most
advanced de{*filter*}s ever seen in a commercial Prolog system.

Quote:
> Application Deployment:
>         Quintus applications package quite nicely ( once you figure out how to
> compile - qpc/qld/C++ compiles, etc. ).  Amzi carries a run-time program
> with its external applications.  Cannot remember what LPA did before I
> gave up on it.

> Investment:
>         Quintus is sort-of in never-never land since it got bought out by
> SICS.  Amzi is smallish shop -- hopefully will be around forever - also
> American if that is important to you!  You might try looking into SICTUS
> as well -- they have an active mailing list.

And LPA has been producing Prolog implementations since 1981 (yes almost 20 years
ago) when it first started with micro-Prolog!

Quote:
> ... just some thoughts .. hope this helps ...

Not LPA particularly!

Quote:
> Al,

Clive Spenser
LPA


Tue, 12 Dec 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 Amzi Prolog versus LPA Prolog.

Hi Zeno,

I was using version 3.0 and I understand the V3.5/V3.6 has fixed the
problems that I encountered.

LPA does have extremely nice GUI support.  The only problem I really
encountered with LPA GUI's was that in designing and writing your code
you must be very careful to separate out GUI functions ( which tend to
be procedural ) from real PROLOG code.  In this way there is a chance
that you might be able to port to other systems.

I have had recent contact with LPA and they seem quite serious about
support;  they should definately be on your 'short-list'.

Al,

Quote:

> Thank you very much.  What an informative post!

> I have decided that, because of my experiences with Turbo Prolog and
> because I am looking for something very dynamic, that the type
> declarations of Visual Prolog won't suit my Prolog purposes at this
> time.

> Because of the information in your post, and because I want to call
> Prolog from VB code, I suppose that Quintus will not suit my current
> purposes either.

> Support, I can check (pretty much) before I purchase, and (hopefully)
> LPAs has changed since you last evaluated the two products.  But this
> is certainly something to check.  I would like to ask, was it one
> unsatisfactory occurrence that made you feel this way, or multiple?

> Your statement that LPA was a little buggy when writing serious
> applications is very important.  I do not want a Prolog to goof with
> at home, but one I can write serious applications (or application
> components) with.  Would you please clarify this a little?

> And if that's not enough, I have one more question... How can append
> two lists together?  (Just kidding :-) ).

> - Zeno
> -----------


> >Hi,

> >I am so shocked that someone actually posted something other than 'How
> >do I append two lists together?' that I think a response is worth while:

> >Bugs:
> >       I have tried both Amzi and LPA and found that LPA was a little buggy
> >when writing serious applications.  Amzi has had its moments but recent
> >version are pretty good.  You can get quite serious with Quintus ( i.e.
> >with floating point, tcp support, external db access and so on )

> >Support:
> >       I rated LPA, at best, average to nil in support and Amzi I rate
> >exceptional.  Quintus support is very frustrating -- for the most part
> >you are on your own unless you have lots of time on your hands!

> >Standards:
> >       Amzi lacked good external support libraries.  LPA a little better.
> >Quintus is quite good.  Ditto - what Mike Covington says - avoid any
> >PROLOG that forces you to type declare anything!

> >Portability:
> >       Amzi runs on almost anything.  LPA not sure(NT).  Quintus runs on
> >Solaris/NT and is quite childish about not running on Linux.

> >Speed:
> >       Quintus is quite quick.

> >Development:
> >       Amzi has a pretty fair environment for NT.

> >Application Deployment:
> >       Quintus applications package quite nicely ( once you figure out how to
> >compile - qpc/qld/C++ compiles, etc. ).  Amzi carries a run-time program
> >with its external applications.  Cannot remember what LPA did before I
> >gave up on it.

> >Investment:
> >       Quintus is sort-of in never-never land since it got bought out by
> >SICS.  Amzi is smallish shop -- hopefully will be around forever - also
> >American if that is important to you!  You might try looking into SICTUS
> >as well -- they have an active mailing list.

> >... just some thoughts .. hope this helps ...

> >Al,



Sat, 16 Dec 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 Amzi Prolog versus LPA Prolog.

Hi Clive,

Sorry, I responded to your questions through E-mail not checking
comp.lang.prolog ( I did not realize you also posted ).  Feel free to
attach my response, if you like.

Al,

Quote:


> > Hi,

> > I am so shocked that someone actually posted something other than 'How
> > do I append two lists together?' that I think a response is worth while:

> Agreed

> > Bugs:
> >         I have tried both Amzi and LPA and found that LPA was a little buggy
> > when writing serious applications.  Amzi has had its moments but recent
> > version are pretty good.  You can get quite serious with Quintus ( i.e.
> > with floating point, tcp support, external db access and so on )

> LPA would be very grateful for more details here (though I appreciate it is
> probably a long time ago now)

> > Support:
> >         I rated LPA, at best, average to nil in support and Amzi I rate
> > exceptional.  Quintus support is very frustrating -- for the most part
> > you are on your own unless you have lots of time on your hands!

> Again, I am suprised to come across such comments.
> AFAIK, LPA does respond 'quite' quickly to all reported problems.

> > Standards:
> >         Amzi lacked good external support libraries.  LPA a little better.
> > Quintus is quite good.  Ditto - what Mike Covington says - avoid any
> > PROLOG that forces you to type declare anything!

> Hopefully, ISO will enable this area to grow.

> > Portability:
> >         Amzi runs on almost anything.  LPA not sure(NT).  Quintus runs on
> > Solaris/NT and is quite childish about not running on Linux.

> LPA's main usage is on NT, but also works fine on Windows 95 and 3.x

> > Speed:
> >         Quintus is quite quick.

> > Development:
> >         Amzi has a pretty fair environment for NT.

> I believe LPA is regarded as having an excellent integrated development
> environment (as far as most Prolog systems are concerned), with probably the most
> advanced de{*filter*}s ever seen in a commercial Prolog system.

> > Application Deployment:
> >         Quintus applications package quite nicely ( once you figure out how to
> > compile - qpc/qld/C++ compiles, etc. ).  Amzi carries a run-time program
> > with its external applications.  Cannot remember what LPA did before I
> > gave up on it.

> > Investment:
> >         Quintus is sort-of in never-never land since it got bought out by
> > SICS.  Amzi is smallish shop -- hopefully will be around forever - also
> > American if that is important to you!  You might try looking into SICTUS
> > as well -- they have an active mailing list.

> And LPA has been producing Prolog implementations since 1981 (yes almost 20 years
> ago) when it first started with micro-Prolog!

> > ... just some thoughts .. hope this helps ...

> Not LPA particularly!

> > Al,

> Clive Spenser
> LPA



Sat, 16 Dec 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 
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