Propossal for new group to drop traffic in comp.lang.perl.misc 
Author Message
 Propossal for new group to drop traffic in comp.lang.perl.misc

I would like to propose a new group for perl and web related activities.

group:                  Description:
comp.lang.perl.www      Perl and the Web programming.

This group would be unmoderated.

A LOT OF WEB related stuff is being done in perl.  I think that a
group dedicated to the perl programmer and the web would be
appropriate.  It would free this group up for those language specific
questions for the advanced perl programmer.

Well what do you think guys?

P.S. I have no clue on how to start a group.

---
Mark Daku



Tue, 22 Dec 1998 03:00:00 GMT  
 Propossal for new group to drop traffic in comp.lang.perl.misc


Quote:
> A LOT OF WEB related stuff is being done in perl.  I think that a
> group dedicated to the perl programmer and the web would be
> appropriate.

I tend to disagree. There's already comp.infosystems.www.authoring.cgi,
which is the place for almost all such discussions. Making a new group
wouldn't be likely to drop traffic in comp.lang.perl.misc anyway, given
the large amount of crossposting that we see. Thanks for thinking of it,
though.

-- Tom Phoenix            http://www.teleport.com/~rootbeer/




Tue, 22 Dec 1998 03:00:00 GMT  
 Propossal for new group to drop traffic in comp.lang.perl.misc

Quote:

>I would like to propose a new group for perl and web related activities.

>group:                  Description:
>comp.lang.perl.www      Perl and the Web programming.

IMHO that should be in comp.infosystems.www.whatever and a c.l.p.www would
only generate a lot of crossposts.

--
Party? Party, lord? Yes, lord. Right away, lord.
        - Beopunk {*filter*}wulf



Tue, 22 Dec 1998 03:00:00 GMT  
 Propossal for new group to drop traffic in comp.lang.perl.misc

[mailed and posted]


Quote:
> group:                     Description:
> comp.lang.perl.www Perl and the Web programming.

> A LOT OF WEB related stuff is being done in perl.  I think that a
> group dedicated to the perl programmer and the web would be
> appropriate.  It would free this group up for those language specific
> questions for the advanced perl programmer.

> Well what do you think guys?

There'd probably be lots of cross-posting.  People would post it to the
'www' group because it's web related, but it might also be a generic perl
questionn, so what they heck.  I'll post it to *both*.  Then someone will
surely read it and tell me what I need to know.

Honestly, in the year or two I've been on these groups, I've noticed that
the *vast majority* of www-perl related quetsions are really perl
questions that have arisen because people didn't take the time to first
learn perl (before jumping on the WWW bandwagon).

There are a lot of www-specific issues, but their numbers pale in
comparison to the number of people who are having trouble with perl.

Jeremy
--
Jeremy Zawodny
MaraWeb Development
Information Technology Services
Marathon Oil Company, Findlay Ohio



Fri, 25 Dec 1998 03:00:00 GMT  
 Propossal for new group to drop traffic in comp.lang.perl.misc

Quote:


>> A LOT OF WEB related stuff is being done in perl.  I think that a
>> group dedicated to the perl programmer and the web would be
>> appropriate.

>I tend to disagree. There's already comp.infosystems.www.authoring.cgi,
>which is the place for almost all such discussions. Making a new group
>wouldn't be likely to drop traffic in comp.lang.perl.misc anyway, given
>the large amount of crossposting that we see. Thanks for thinking of it,
>though.

I'm not quite sure. I've read a lot of responses against this new group.
But then again although I've read quite a lot c.l.p.m. I never does
remember the full name of c.i.w.a.c.  What I want to say is that
c.i.w.a.c is an awful name of a newgroup, and I understand why newbies
don't find this and tend to use c.l.p.m instead(or crosspost here).

If you're fresh at perl-programming and working with www, and you start
looking for a newgroup, which you aren't quite sure what is, which one
do you find first? c.l.p.m ? or c.i.w.a.c? My bet is on c.l.p.m.

What I'm wondering is whether this is a justifiable reason of creating
a new newgroup. I'm thinking of either c.l.p.www (which maybe isn't the
best choice) or maybe something along the lines of
comp.infosystems.www.perl

The last one c.i.w.p. has the advantage of be mainly under the
www-tree of newsgroups, and although most questions are likely to be
simple perl-questions (quite a few FAQs) those reading the newsgroups
would be able to cope with answering them.

And if they do crosspost one could ignore those questions
relying on the c.i.w.p. to answer them or if it's an interesting
question maybe answer it. If one don't appreciate this question at all,
one might kill all articles posted to c.l.p.m which are crossposted to
c.i.w.p. And this I think would reduce the volume of c.l.p.m.

--
  \\\|||///  \ Even Holen, Berg Presteg?rd, Jonsvannsvn 45, N-7016 Trondheim


oOo  (_)  oOo   \        'Christians are not perfect they are forgiven'



Sat, 26 Dec 1998 03:00:00 GMT  
 Propossal for new group to drop traffic in comp.lang.perl.misc



: >
: >> A LOT OF WEB related stuff is being done in perl.  I think that a
: >> group dedicated to the perl programmer and the web would be
: >> appropriate.
: >
: >I tend to disagree. There's already comp.infosystems.www.authoring.cgi,
: >which is the place for almost all such discussions. Making a new group
: >wouldn't be likely to drop traffic in comp.lang.perl.misc anyway, given
: >the large amount of crossposting that we see. Thanks for thinking of it,
: >though.
: >
:
: I'm not quite sure. I've read a lot of responses against this new group.
: But then again although I've read quite a lot c.l.p.m. I never does
: remember the full name of c.i.w.a.c.  What I want to say is that
: c.i.w.a.c is an awful name of a newgroup, and I understand why newbies
: don't find this and tend to use c.l.p.m instead(or crosspost here).
:

This wasn't true 9 months ago.  Somewhere around that time, in
one of the similar threads going about then, I predicted that users
seeking help would soon be showing up on comp.lang.perl.misc because
of the abysmal SNR of c.i.w.a.c.  At that time, the number of daily
posts on the two groups were about the same -- now comp.lang.perl.misc
seems to have 30-40% more traffic than c.i.w.a.c.  I am sure that the
creation of the Java groups made a difference, but not that much.

When the experts left c.i.w.a.c, many of the more knowledgeable
novices started posting here, in search of answers not in the form
of "try tHiS RAD prog, DooD!"

--
Regards,
Mike Heins                          http://www.iac.net/~mikeh ___       ___
                                    Internet Robotics        |_ _|____ |_ _|
Few blame themselves until they     131 Willow Lane, Floor 2  | ||  _ \ | |
have exhausted all other            Oxford, OH  45056         | || |_) || |
possibilities.                                               |___|  _ <|___|



Sat, 26 Dec 1998 03:00:00 GMT  
 Propossal for new group to drop traffic in comp.lang.perl.misc


Quote:
> I'm thinking of either c.l.p.www (which maybe isn't the best choice) or
> maybe something along the lines of comp.infosystems.www.perl

Can you give us an example of a question which would be more appropriately
placed in one of these hypothetical new groups than in an existing group?
If you can convince me that there are such questions, I'll be glad to
support the group.

-- Tom Phoenix            http://www.teleport.com/~rootbeer/




Sat, 26 Dec 1998 03:00:00 GMT  
 Propossal for new group to drop traffic in comp.lang.perl.misc

Quote:


>> I'm thinking of either c.l.p.www (which maybe isn't the best choice) or
>> maybe something along the lines of comp.infosystems.www.perl

>Can you give us an example of a question which would be more appropriately
>placed in one of these hypothetical new groups than in an existing group?
>If you can convince me that there are such questions, I'll be glad to
>support the group.

I can't think of an exact question which would _only_ belong in
c.i.w.p., but some questions like the following list might be easily
asked in such a group.

    How to get data from  <SELECT MULTIPLE>?
    How to save data between forms?
    How to avoid cgi-bin?
    How to use fast-cgi?
    Is it possible to keep running a script, between calls from html? How?      
My theory is that if there were something like c.i.w.p. then it would be
used instead of c.l.p.m. (and maybe instead of c.i.w.a.c (?)) therebye
lowering the volume of c.l.p.m. I do think that some newbies and
oldtimers would subscribe to c.i.w.p. due to the combination of www and
perl, and that there is quite a few question which would be appropriate
to ask in this group.

What I don't want to say is that these questions can't be answered
elsewhere. But I think they would be far more on topic in c.i.w.p. then
in some of the other places where these questions are asked at the time
being.

(Please note that I do not read c.i.w.a.c. at the time begin, so I do
 not know the amount of questions from this group which would emigrate
 into a new c.i.w.p.-group)

What do you think of a new c.i.w.p.? Would it lower the volume of others
newsgroups? Or would it just add a another newsgroup to an already
overwhelmingly large newsgroup-tree?

--
  \\\|||///  \ Even Holen, Berg Presteg?rd, Jonsvannsvn 45, N-7016 Trondheim


oOo  (_)  oOo   \        'Christians are not perfect they are forgiven'



Sun, 27 Dec 1998 03:00:00 GMT  
 Propossal for new group to drop traffic in comp.lang.perl.misc


Quote:

> I'm not quite sure. I've read a lot of responses against this new group.
> But then again although I've read quite a lot c.l.p.m. I never does
> remember the full name of c.i.w.a.c.  What I want to say is that
> c.i.w.a.c is an awful name of a newgroup, and I understand why newbies
> don't find this and tend to use c.l.p.m instead(or crosspost here).

> If you're fresh at perl-programming and working with www, and you start
> looking for a newgroup, which you aren't quite sure what is, which one
> do you find first? c.l.p.m ? or c.i.w.a.c? My bet is on c.l.p.m.

With this argument, we can go back to the automailer proposed here in
the past few weeks.  If newbies knew that c.i.w.a.c existed, they could
move their posts there (or at least not post their CGI questions there
in the future).  

I still feel that the automailer is a good idea.  If used correctly, it
will seriously slow the traffic in my favorite newsgroup. (c.l.p.m)

just my ha'penny.
-Todd

--
Todd O'Boyle            - Programmer, Perl Hacker, BMX Rider, etc. -
URL: <a href="http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~toddo/"> Todd's Homepage! </a>




Sun, 27 Dec 1998 03:00:00 GMT  
 Propossal for new group to drop traffic in comp.lang.perl.misc

The best thing would be to find some subject that clearly covers
about half of all the messages in the group and that also makes
it easier to find messages on the topic you are moost intrested
in.

Some suggestions:
 * A group on objects in pearl.
 * A special group on regular expressions.
 * An perl NT group.

--
 / Jonas Liljegren
http://w3.adb.gu.se/~a95jonas/welcome.html
Geek Code 3.1 GIT/P/Od-s+:-a24C++US++P++LEW++N++



Sun, 27 Dec 1998 03:00:00 GMT  
 Propossal for new group to drop traffic in comp.lang.perl.misc


comp.infosystems.www.perl (or similar) group:

Quote:
> I can't think of an exact question which would _only_ belong in
> c.i.w.p., but some questions like the following list might be easily
> asked in such a group.

>     How to get data from  <SELECT MULTIPLE>?

No, that's one of the "How do I write cgi-bin scripts?" questions which
should be answered in a Perl context with the single FAQ "Use CGI.pm and
read its docs."

Quote:
>     How to save data between forms?

Same.

Quote:
>     How to avoid cgi-bin?

Not Perl-specific. This should be answered in a web faq or a server's
docs.

Quote:
>     How to use fast-cgi?

I've never heard of 'fast-cgi', but it sure doesn't sound Perl-specific.
And it sounds like a FAQ. And it sounds like something that CGI.pm would
do for me so that I wouldn't even need to ask the question. :-)

Quote:
>     Is it possible to keep running a script, between calls from html?
> How?

Not Perl-specific.

Quote:
> My theory is that if there were something like c.i.w.p. then it would be
> used instead of c.l.p.m.

Your reasoning is specious. I'd like to reduce the congestion in
c.l.p.misc as well, but not by making a new newsgroup for questions that
are already answered in FAQs and docs. If we only got those questions
removed from c.l.p.misc (and not merely moved to another newsgroup, where
they'd merely waste bandwidth) we'd all be better off.

Quote:
> What I don't want to say is that these questions can't be answered
> elsewhere.

Well, if they can be answered in a FAQ or in docs, they should. Of the
rest, if they aren't Perl-specific, why put them into a Perl group? You're
asking C, Tcl, Python, and fortran programmers to all ask the same
questions and get the same answers, but in different newsgroups. (And, for
that matter, the people who can _answer_ such questions would need to read
multiple newsgroups.) That's not efficient.

I'm willing to support new newsgroups when they would serve a real need,
but I haven't seen a real need for this one yet.

-- Tom Phoenix            http://www.teleport.com/~rootbeer/




Mon, 28 Dec 1998 03:00:00 GMT  
 
 [ 11 post ] 

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