RFQ: Tk::Wizard - a wizard style widget for Perl/Tk 
Author Message
 RFQ: Tk::Wizard - a wizard style widget for Perl/Tk

I am toying around with an idea for a Wizard widget for Tk. This widget
would provide a Wizard interface similar to NT/95.

The Wizard would provide an interface to step through a number of
Wizard::Step items. Each step could provide a verification routine that
would ensure that the inputs were correct. The Wizard would provide the Next
and Previous buttons and would take care of changing the button names.

Is anyone else working on such a widget? How many people would be interested
in a set of widgets like this? I have a prototype that I will be looking at
to improve.

--
Owen Stenseth



Thu, 10 Feb 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 RFQ: Tk::Wizard - a wizard style widget for Perl/Tk

The whole "Wizard" idea seems to be brought to us as an insult by the
folks that brought us {*filter*}software in the first place.  It is one of
the ironies of the M$ influenced world that efforts to make 'hairball'
software usable are deemed worthy of mention in a Perl group.  At one
time the inhabitors of this group could generally assume a level of
intelligence that precluded such mind controll influenced posters.
Sadly such is no longer the case.

--
John L. Daschbach



Sun, 20 Feb 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 RFQ: Tk::Wizard - a wizard style widget for Perl/Tk


:
: The whole "Wizard" idea seems to be brought to us as an insult by the
: folks that brought us {*filter*}software in the first place.  It is one of
: the ironies of the M$ influenced world that efforts to make 'hairball'
: software usable are deemed worthy of mention in a Perl group.  At one
: time the inhabitors of this group could generally assume a level of
: intelligence that precluded such mind controll influenced posters.
: Sadly such is no longer the case.

Well, like it or not, there seems to be a lot of interest
among folks that are stuck with NT and would like to have
useful tools.  Those of us that can live/work in a unix
environment have had the benefit of quality development
tools for a while, but these new "mind controll influenced"
posters will probably soon outnumber us.  Rather than
insult them, it's probably better to nudge them along a
more rational mindset.  Don't you thing so?

That said, I've built and used perl on a number of unix
platforms.  I tried to build it on an NT 4.0 box the other
day and had little success.  sigh...  So it would seem
these folks already have an uphill battle without getting
sneered at.  8-)

Chris
--
----------------------------+--------------------------------
Christopher Mauritz         | This space reserved for some

----------------------------+--------------------------------



Mon, 21 Feb 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 RFQ: Tk::Wizard - a wizard style widget for Perl/Tk



::
:: The whole "Wizard" idea seems to be brought to us as an insult by the
:: folks that brought us {*filter*}software in the first place.  It is one of
:: the ironies of the M$ influenced world that efforts to make 'hairball'
:: software usable are deemed worthy of mention in a Perl group.  At one
:: time the inhabitors of this group could generally assume a level of
:: intelligence that precluded such mind controll influenced posters.
:: Sadly such is no longer the case.

I don't understand what it is about the Wizard idea that is so insulting.

One of the few things in Windows I liked myself was the assistance the
novice user was provided in setting up facilities with which they had no
experience.  It is infinitely preferable over X's resource mechanism for
the novice.

However, I must say I never went _beyond_ the novice level, so perhaps
that is where the problem comes in.  I can envision that an expert would
prefer to be able to do things in a faster fashion.  Of course, a perl/tk
author would not have to provide just one interface, since in perl the
philosophy is that there is always more than one way to perform an action...
--

<URL: http://www.*-*-*.com/ %7Elvirden/> <*> O- "We are all Kosh."
Unless explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should
be construed as representing my employer's opinions.



Tue, 22 Feb 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 RFQ: Tk::Wizard - a wizard style widget for Perl/Tk

Quote:



> ::
> :: The whole "Wizard" idea seems to be brought to us as an insult by the
> :: folks that brought us {*filter*}software in the first place.  It is one of
> :: the ironies of the M$ influenced world that efforts to make 'hairball'

> I don't understand what it is about the Wizard idea that is so insulting.

> One of the few things in Windows I liked myself was the assistance the
> novice user was provided in setting up facilities with which they had no
> experience.  It is infinitely preferable over X's resource mechanism for
> the novice.

I agree; I think Wizard dialogs are a good idea in some applications.  In
MS Office, for example, the feature bloat is absurd -- I guess they have to
keep adding stuff to keep people buying the new versions :-)  Anyway,
Wizard dialogs give you a way of bypassing some of the 10 menus with 20
items each, the 50 tabbed dialogs with 16 tabs each and innumerable buttons, sliders and other gizmos that you normally have to go through.  In this case,
I look at the Wizard dialogs as learning tools.  Once you find out something
can be done, it's easier to do it yourself by customizing or setting up
templates.  Sometimes the Wizard's spell fizzles, but at least it gets you
started.

On the other hand, the Windows system Wizards usually get in the way. Unfortunately, often there _isn't_ another way, so you're stuck with the
Wizard's inept guidance.  So if you're going to make an application that's
so complicated it needs a Wizard, make sure the Wizard is up to the task.

--

The Aerospace Corporation
Los Angeles, CA



Tue, 22 Feb 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 RFQ: Tk::Wizard - a wizard style widget for Perl/Tk

Quote:



> ::
> :: The whole "Wizard" idea seems to be brought to us as an insult by
> the
> :: folks that brought us {*filter*}software in the first place.  It is one
> of
> :: the ironies of the M$ influenced world that efforts to make
> 'hairball'
> :: software usable are deemed worthy of mention in a Perl group.  At
> one
> :: time the inhabitors of this group could generally assume a level of
> :: intelligence that precluded such mind controll influenced posters.
> :: Sadly such is no longer the case.

> I don't understand what it is about the Wizard idea that is so
> insulting.

> One of the few things in Windows I liked myself was the assistance the
> novice user was provided in setting up facilities with which they had

Amen brother.  Wizards are one of the few M$ ideas worth while.  Right
now I'm working on how to create configuration scripts for sendmail
under AIX for customers with nearly no Unix SysAdmin experience.
I, for one, would love to have such a widget available.  Let's face it,
several very common
programs in the Unix world have very complicated config files.  Sure,
those of us who know how
to write them can make big bucks if we keep the secrets in the temple
(and isn't that what is
really meant by 'a level of intelligence'), but then we're M$.

sendmail, news, NFS, and many others are not 'hairball' software, but
very usable tools whose
very power creates complication in configuration.  Instead of insulting
intellegent people who
have not had the time to dedicate their life to them, why not increase
their accessability by
adding features like Wizards?

Herb Nowell



Sat, 26 Feb 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 RFQ: Tk::Wizard - a wizard style widget for Perl/Tk

Quote:

> Amen brother.  Wizards are one of the few M$ ideas worth while.  Right
> now I'm working on how to create configuration scripts for sendmail
> under AIX for customers with nearly no Unix SysAdmin experience.
> I, for one, would love to have such a widget available.  Let's face it,
> several very common
> programs in the Unix world have very complicated config files.  Sure,
> those of us who know how
> to write them can make big bucks if we keep the secrets in the temple
> (and isn't that what is
> really meant by 'a level of intelligence'), but then we're M$.

> sendmail, news, NFS, and many others are not 'hairball' software, but
> very usable tools whose
> very power creates complication in configuration.  Instead of insulting
> intellegent people who
> have not had the time to dedicate their life to them, why not increase
> their accessability by
> adding features like Wizards?

> Herb Nowell

But the M$ wizard implementation typically forces you to use the
'wizard'.  Compare creating charts in Excel these days to graphs in
1-2-3 of twelve years ago.  Given 1000 x,y points in two columns create a
simple x,y graph.  Why is the twelve year old product much simpler and
more efficient to use?

sendmail, news, NFS are the antithesis of 'hairball' (a term used by
Scott McNealy, CEO of Sun, to refer to the aglomeration of 'features'
in M$ office).  

Having a method to interactivly prepare config files is a fine idea,
but I don't think encapsulating it in a widget is going to be
possible.  Unfortunately for many Unix config files you can't write
the logic as a simple binary tree, what you really need is an expert
system, ala clips.  Now a clips like system in Perl would be *great*
(there's a port of clips to Java now, how about Perl), but this has no
relation to Tk.

-John



Sat, 26 Feb 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 RFQ: Tk::Wizard - a wizard style widget for Perl/Tk


Quote:

> Amen brother.  Wizards are one of the few M$ ideas worth while.  

To pick nits, wizards are patented by Stardock (a company which gave
us Galactic Civilizations, Object Desktop and other fine games and
utilities for OS/2).  This may be an interesting year (last one did
not - it was the year when M$'s licence - from IBM - to use OLE
expired ;-).

Ilya



Sat, 26 Feb 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 
 [ 8 post ] 

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