Lispworks FLI 
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 Lispworks FLI


Quote:



>> OK.  This is definitely a worthwhile topic for discussion, and I think
>> you should reframe it and post it as the start of the thread whose
>> topic you are _really_ interested in.

> What I'm really interested in is having technical questions about
> various implementations of Lisp answered on comp.lang.lisp.  When
> someone says "ask the vendor" they imply that the question is not
> appropriate here and/or that the vendors don't care enough about

No they do not, what they are telling you is go ask the company that
is the keeper of the truth for that product to get some truth.  And it
helps the company use help as a tool to drive product/documentation
improvements, fix what causes the most calls/emails.  Also there is a
cost issue, the vendors would have to have fairly senior level people
for this task and that costs more money then having it routed to a jr
level person who follows a script to resolve the problem,
open ticket
classify mail
check knoledge base
ask supervisor/lead
then bump to development if you have not found an answer
and get the answer in the knoledge base for next time.

Quote:
> comp.lang.lisp to monitor it for such questions.  Why doesn't this
> bother everyone?  For this forum to be what it should be, people
> should be strongly encouraged to ask technical questions here.  But

no one is saying do not ask it here, they are saying there is a better
place to ask if you want the best possable answer

Quote:
> how much encouragement is it when the vendors ignore the questions,
> even when nobody else can answer them?  And when people post responses
> that seem to imply the questions aren't appropriate here?

First has the vendor ignored you when you asked them, in the way they
asked you to, for help?  And do you have the right to even ask(ie did
you pay for support)?  The person at the vendor is doing this as part
of their job, it cost the company money to answer your question.  If
you do not have a licence you have not helped pay that persons wages
so do not get pissed that the company will not let them work for you.

marc



Tue, 20 Jul 2004 09:49:10 GMT  
 Lispworks FLI

Quote:

> What I'm really interested in is having technical questions about
> various implementations of Lisp answered on comp.lang.lisp.

Agreed.

 > When someone says "ask the vendor" they imply that the question is
 > not appropriate here and/or that the vendors don't care enough about

Quote:
> comp.lang.lisp to monitor it for such questions.

No, this is wrong. For the reasons I gave in an earlier post. More
than this, this is *rubbish*.

Quote:
> Why doesn't this bother everyone?

*If* what you said was true, it would, but since it is *not* true then
  what is there to get bothered about?

[...elided some more missing-the-point...]

:|w



Tue, 20 Jul 2004 16:50:59 GMT  
 Lispworks FLI

Quote:


>> for this.  While it's very nice that (some of?) the vendors read (and
>> post to) c.l.l I think it's an absurd idea to assume there is any
>> obligation at all on them to be filtering it for potential bug
>> reports. There are also a fair number of reasons why a vendor might
>> not want to respond in an open forum (although of course it's nice
>> when they do as it increases the signal/noise ratio...).
> Bug reports aren't relevant to this thread.  

Sorry, s/bug reports/support issues/ in my article.

I can't, frankly, be bothered responding to the rest of your article.
Work for an organisation that does support sometime and you'll
understand.

--tim



Mon, 19 Jul 2004 17:23:48 GMT  
 Lispworks FLI

Quote:


>> But as an example, somebody might suggest that you talk to
>> xanalys support. And if they come back with a good response,
>> maybe you could post that too and *share* this information. This
>> is what *I* would do.

> Lisp is more of a meta-language than an ordinary language.  It's about
> programs that write programs, etc.  Likewise, Lisp programmers are
> more into meta-answers than ordinary answers.  If ordinary answers to
> technical questions were provided, we wouldn't have all these
> interesting discussions about whether it's better to ask a question in
> the forum or on a support line, or whether a question is the correct
> question to ask, or the question shows the wrong attitude, or whether
> a Lisp vendor should answer technical questions in the forum or only
> on a support line.  Without such meta-discussions, and/or without all
> the usual personal bickering, comp.lang.lisp would not be the same
> forum at all.

With all these `meta's I'm surprised that you forgot metaprogramming :)

And I believe that ML and its derivaties O'Caml and SML have already
extensively used a form of the term `meta-language'. :)

Quote:
> You want me to share concrete technical information and destroy the
> very character of comp.lang.lisp?

--

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Wed, 21 Jul 2004 10:12:48 GMT  
 
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