Are C programmers in demand? 
Author Message
 Are C programmers in demand?

I am a college student and I just finished taking a second class in C
programming. I love the language for its simple elegance and power and would
love to apply for a job as a C programmer upon graduating. When I looked in
the newspaper for IT jobs to access what's hot and what's not. All I see are
huge demands for Web Developers (lotus Notes, HTML, Frontpage, VB script,
Java script,etc.) of all sorts, Visual Basic, Power Builder, MFC
programmers, Oracle database programmers, etc.

I hardly saw any C programmer positions compared to the amount of positions
displayed for other programming languages. Is there a viable market for
someone looking to make a living programming only in C?

Why is my college pushing (seems like it at least) the Visual Basic, Web
programming and GUI programming route? When these tools and languages have a
great many more limitations than C.

Thank you for any thoughts and advice on the matter.



Sat, 24 Aug 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Are C programmers in demand?

Quote:
>I am a college student and I just finished taking a second class in C
>programming. I love the language for its simple elegance and power and would
>love to apply for a job as a C programmer upon graduating. When I looked in

Note that questions about employment do not pertain to the discussion topics of
comp.lang.c.

Quote:
>the newspaper for IT jobs to access what's hot and what's not. All I see are
>huge demands for Web Developers (lotus Notes, HTML, Frontpage, VB script,
>Java script,etc.) of all sorts, Visual basic, Power Builder, MFC
>programmers, Oracle database programmers, etc.

These kinds of programming tasks are not systems programming, and some of them
are not even programming at all. If you are interested in C, chances are you
want to be a systems programmer.

Quote:
>I hardly saw any C programmer positions compared to the amount of positions
>displayed for other programming languages.

The positions are not for programming languages but for certain kinds of
work. You are probably not interested in doing the kind of *work* that is
typically done in these languages.

Quote:
>Is there a viable market for
>someone looking to make a living programming only in C?

Software development is not about programming in a certain language. You
have to develop expertise in applying the language to problems.

Quote:
>Why is my college pushing (seems like it at least) the Visual Basic, Web
>programming and GUI programming route?

Because your college is probably driven by the demands of local businesses.
They are teaching the latest buzzword tools, rather than software skills.
You need to find some school that teaches ``{*filter*}'' systems programming.

It's easier for a college to pump out VB monkeys who are able to do useful work
in the VB arena than to pump out C programmers that are useful in the world
where C is used.  Out of a random sample of 1000 people, you can probably make
200 into useful VB programmers, and about zero into useful C programmers.

C is used in situations that also call for monstrous software skills.  The so
called world of ``{*filter*}'' systems programming.

For these kinds of jobs, nobody looks for someone who is a mere ``C
programmer''.  These jobs need someone who can use C to solve the difficult
problems in the {*filter*} systems programming domain, not someone who has
finished an introductory course or two in C!

Why are there so many jobs inolving the Web or scripting languages? Because
these tools are used to *customize* software directly for the end-users.
People want their own custom web page, or database front end and so forth.
People are not likely to want a C programmer to make custom modifications to,
say, their firewall's embedded OS; you have to go work for the company that
makes the router.

Quote:
>When these tools and languages have a great many more limitations than C.

But there are some that don't. Do you want to make yourself ineligible for a
great systems programming job because it requires something other than C.

Would you opt out of working on, say, the kernel of a network router because
the job needed C++ and you only know C?



Sat, 24 Aug 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Are C programmers in demand?
This is off-topic for this newsgroup.

However...

YES! There is great demand for C. Especially in embedded real time.


)I am a college student and I just finished taking a second class in C
)programming. I love the language for its simple elegance and power and would
)love to apply for a job as a C programmer upon graduating. When I looked in
)the newspaper for IT jobs to access what's hot and what's not. All I see are
)huge demands for Web Developers (lotus Notes, HTML, Frontpage, VB script,
)Java script,etc.) of all sorts, Visual basic, Power Builder, MFC
)programmers, Oracle database programmers, etc.
)
)I hardly saw any C programmer positions compared to the amount of positions
)displayed for other programming languages. Is there a viable market for
)someone looking to make a living programming only in C?
)
)Why is my college pushing (seems like it at least) the Visual Basic, Web
)programming and GUI programming route? When these tools and languages have a
)great many more limitations than C.
)
)Thank you for any thoughts and advice on the matter.
)
)
)
)
)

--
----
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This message made from 100% recycled bits.
I don't speak for Alcatel      <- They make me say that.



Sat, 24 Aug 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Are C programmers in demand?


Quote:
> I am a college student and I just finished taking a second class in C
> programming. I love the language for its simple elegance and power and
> would love to apply for a job as a C programmer upon graduating.

You're not going to find many jobs for a "C programmer".  What you will
find are jobs for embedded/realtime/system/application programmers,
which may or may not require C.  Think about the kind of work you want
to do.  Do you want to write games?  Device drivers?  Compilers?
Operating systems?  Data management applications?  GUIs?

Quote:
> When I looked in the newspaper for IT jobs to access what's hot and
> what's not. All I see are huge demands for Web Developers (lotus
> Notes, HTML, Frontpage, VB script, Java script,etc.) of all sorts,
> Visual basic, Power Builder, MFC programmers, Oracle database
> programmers, etc.

The Web market is exploding at a frankly scary clip, so those skills are
in high demand.  However, it is not a representative sample of the
total software job market.

Quote:
> I hardly saw any C programmer positions compared to the amount of
> positions displayed for other programming languages. Is there a
> viable market for someone looking to make a living programming only
> in C?

First rule of being a professional -- you are going to have to be
flexible.  Expose yourself to as many different languages (and different
*kinds* of languages -- 3GLs, 4GLs, OOLs, functional languages, etc) as
possible.  First of all, it will help reinforce general programming
concepts.  Second of all, it will help teach you where C's limitations
are.  The first time you try to write a GUI with C, you are going to
emphatically wish you had taken the time to learn Java or VB.

Quote:
> Why is my college pushing (seems like it at least) the Visual Basic,
> Web programming and GUI programming route? When these tools and
> languages have a great many more limitations than C.

They probably have an industrial advisory board telling them what skills
they are going to need in the next few years.  The majority of IT jobs
involve shoving data around, which is something VB excels at.

Quote:

> Thank you for any thoughts and advice on the matter.

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Sat, 24 Aug 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Are C programmers in demand?
Tom;
I hope I don't step on any toes here.

The reason you are seeing the 'buzz word' languages in the paper is the
simple fact that the web is in high demand. Now this does not mean that
there is not a demand for 'c' programmers. If you subscribed to a 'head
hunter' service, you would see also a lot of COBOL, Oracle, DB2, RPG,
etc. Now a distinction can be made that the newspapers *might* cater to
one type of clients, and the headhunters cater to another type of
clients. I would not use the newspaper as the sole source of your
sampling.

Look at :

www.dice.com
www.jobdirect.com
etc....

Quote:

> I am a college student and I just finished taking a second class in C
> programming. I love the language for its simple elegance and power and would
> love to apply for a job as a C programmer upon graduating. When I looked in
> the newspaper for IT jobs to access what's hot and what's not. All I see are
> huge demands for Web Developers (lotus Notes, HTML, Frontpage, VB script,
> Java script,etc.) of all sorts, Visual basic, Power Builder, MFC
> programmers, Oracle database programmers, etc.

> I hardly saw any C programmer positions compared to the amount of positions
> displayed for other programming languages. Is there a viable market for
> someone looking to make a living programming only in C?

> Why is my college pushing (seems like it at least) the Visual Basic, Web
> programming and GUI programming route? When these tools and languages have a
> great many more limitations than C.

> Thank you for any thoughts and advice on the matter.

--
================================================
Jerry Walter
Bentley Systems, Inc.
Geoengineering Business Group

(937) 332-0053
================================================


Sat, 24 Aug 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Are C programmers in demand?

Quote:

> Is there a viable market for
> someone looking to make a living programming only in C?

It's unthinkable that you could be a serious programmer
without being fluent in C, just as you can't be an expert
on the Roman Catholic Church history without knowing Latin.
However knowing C by itself is not terribly useful, just as
knowing the Latin language but nothing about history or
literature isn't much good to anyone either.

If you wish to program mainly in C either learn assembly
language and go for a job in embedded systems, learn C++
and Microsoft Windows API and go for a job in applications
development, or learn 3D graphics and go for a job in games.

Quote:
> Why is my college pushing (seems like it at least) the
> Visual Basic, Web
> programming and GUI programming route? When these
> tools and languages have a
> great many more limitations than C.

The college is looking for immediate skills employers would
be interested in rather than developing genuine knowledge
and talent. You may need to learn all of these things, but
they call for the assimilation of facts more than real
insight into the underlying principles. The GUIs will
probably change beyond recognition in a few years, as will
Web programming. You are probably too intelligent for the
courses your college offers.

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Sun, 25 Aug 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Are C programmers in demand?


Quote:


> > Is there a viable market for
> > someone looking to make a living programming only in C?

Of course not.  As malcolm indicates below, you first have to be able to
program (give and take direction without EQUIVOCATION) in English.  That
means you BECOME an Engineer through practice of the profession.  Fidel
Castro refers to the process in his famous characterization:  You can call
yourself an Eagle without a single feather.

Quote:
> It's unthinkable that you could be a serious programmer
> without being fluent in C, just as you can't be an expert
> on the Roman Catholic Church history without knowing Latin.
> However knowing C by itself is not terribly useful, just as
> knowing the Latin language but nothing about history or
> literature isn't much good to anyone either.

You're being a little harse here.  Street slang is an adequate, working,
characterization of HISTORICAL CONTRADICTION.

Karl M, chair.



Sun, 25 Aug 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Are C programmers in demand?


Quote:





> > > Is there a viable market for
> > > someone looking to make a living programming only in C?

> Of course not.  As malcolm indicates below, you first have to be able
to
> program (give and take direction without EQUIVOCATION) in English.
That
> means you BECOME an Engineer through practice of the profession.
Fidel
> Castro refers to the process in his famous characterization:  You can
call
> yourself an Eagle without a single feather.

...which would mean something along the lines of "you may call yourself
an engineer without any practice whatsoever". Is that what you wanted to
point out?

Quote:
> > It's unthinkable that you could be a serious programmer
> > without being fluent in C, just as you can't be an expert
> > on the Roman Catholic Church history without knowing Latin.
> > However knowing C by itself is not terribly useful, just as
> > knowing the Latin language but nothing about history or
> > literature isn't much good to anyone either.

> You're being a little harse here.  Street slang is an adequate,
working,
> characterization of HISTORICAL CONTRADICTION.

> Karl M, chair.

/A

--
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| Andreas K?h?ri
| Uppsala University
| Sweden

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Before you buy.



Sun, 25 Aug 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Are C programmers in demand?
I just wanted to say to everyone that answered my question, Thank You. I
also apologize for posting an off topic question on this forum. I just
thought erroneously who better to answer a question on being a C programmer
than the real "McCoy".

Thanks again.


Quote:
> I am a college student and I just finished taking a second class in C
> programming. I love the language for its simple elegance and power and
would
> love to apply for a job as a C programmer upon graduating. When I looked
in
> the newspaper for IT jobs to access what's hot and what's not. All I see
are
> huge demands for Web Developers (lotus Notes, HTML, Frontpage, VB script,
> Java script,etc.) of all sorts, Visual basic, Power Builder, MFC
> programmers, Oracle database programmers, etc.

> I hardly saw any C programmer positions compared to the amount of
positions
> displayed for other programming languages. Is there a viable market for
> someone looking to make a living programming only in C?

> Why is my college pushing (seems like it at least) the Visual Basic, Web
> programming and GUI programming route? When these tools and languages have
a
> great many more limitations than C.

> Thank you for any thoughts and advice on the matter.



Sun, 25 Aug 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Are C programmers in demand?

Quote:
Tom McFadden writes:
> I love the language for its simple elegance and power and ....

I missed that.  Jeez, if you like C you would have an {*filter*} if you saw
something decent like ALGOL 60.  You think its elegant to have % mean modulo?
To have
  a = b
 mean replace a with b?  After hundreds of years of history that says it means
something entierly different?  
I could go on.  But I won't.


Sun, 25 Aug 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Are C programmers in demand?


Quote:
> Tom McFadden writes:

> > I love the language for its simple elegance and power and ....

> I missed that.  Jeez, if you like C you would have an {*filter*} if you saw
> something decent like ALGOL 60.  You think its elegant to have % mean

modulo?

Questions of mere stereo-typing (style) are without standing on the AGENDA.
If you'd like to discuss OVERLOAD further, might I suggest you take your
item to C++.  Thanks, Karl M, chair.



Sun, 25 Aug 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Are C programmers in demand?

Quote:



> > Fidel
> > Castro refers to the process in his famous characterization:  You can
> > call
> > yourself an Eagle without a single feather.

> ...which would mean something along the lines of "you may call yourself
> an engineer without any practice whatsoever". Is that what you wanted to
> point out?

Have you ever found a situation where a quote from Fidel Castro
would be helpful? I think he means "you can call yourself a hen,
but it's laying eggs that counts" or the more Zen-like "judge a
cloud by its weather".

--
Craig

Manchester, NH
Everyone hears only what he understands. -- Goethe



Mon, 26 Aug 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Are C programmers in demand?
The answer to your question is yes, simply  because there is so much C code out
there that needs to be maintained. Just go to: www.monster.com and search on
keyword: C programmer. It also pays to know C++ as well.


Mon, 26 Aug 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Are C programmers in demand?

Quote:
>I am a college student and I just finished taking a second class in C
>programming. I love the language for its simple elegance and power and would
>love to apply for a job as a C programmer upon graduating.

C is not elegant, it's a necessary evil. When you have spent hours
tracking down a bug that would be picked-up as a compiler/linker error
in a better language you will realise that.

Quote:
>When I looked in
>the newspaper for IT jobs to access what's hot and what's not. All I see are
>huge demands for Web Developers (lotus Notes, HTML, Frontpage, VB script,
>Java script,etc.) of all sorts, Visual basic, Power Builder, MFC
>programmers, Oracle database programmers, etc.

>I hardly saw any C programmer positions compared to the amount of positions
>displayed for other programming languages.

for the same reason that lawyers don't refer to themselves as "office
workers".  Being a C programmer is a fairly low-grade occupation
compared to, say, being an embedded-systems software engineer. They
actually spend a lot of time writing C, but acquire other skills as
well.

Quote:
>Is there a viable market for someone looking to make a living programming only in C?

A declining one - much of what was once done in C is now done in C++.

Quote:
>Why is my college pushing (seems like it at least) the Visual Basic, Web
>programming and GUI programming route? When these tools and languages have a
>great many more limitations than C.

Actually, most of the above are poor introductions to software. You
might like to try Java  (not Java script), it's C-like but much better
constructed than either C or C++.


Mon, 26 Aug 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Are C programmers in demand?


Quote:



> > Tom McFadden writes:

> > > I love the language for its simple elegance and power and ....

> > I missed that.  Jeez, if you like C you would have an {*filter*} if
> > you saw something decent like ALGOL 60.  You think its elegant to
> > have % mean modulo?

> Questions of mere stereo-typing (style)

Huh, and here I thought stereo-typing was the act of programming with
the CD player cranked up to 11...

Quote:
> are without standing on the AGENDA. If you'd like to discuss OVERLOAD
> further, might I suggest you take your item to C++.  Thanks, Karl M,
> chair.

You're welcome, John B, microwave stand.

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Mon, 26 Aug 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 
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