Getting Started 
Author Message
 Getting Started

I have a fair bit of experiance in PHP.

Tons in HTML, CSS etc.

and a bit in JS.

Though I often use PHP( and will continue to do so ) I would like to 'learn'
C/C++.

I am slightly confused over a few issues though.

I know C++ is an OO language. Should I try and learn C++ or C first?

How hard should I expect this to be?

What should I use for development? I probably need a complier for
starters...

Will I need a book or is it easy enough to learn from internet resources?

--
JJ Harrison

www.tececo.com

--
Please reply on the list/newsgroup unless the reply it OT.



Sun, 06 Feb 2005 18:17:36 GMT  
 Getting Started

Quote:

> I have a fair bit of experiance in PHP.

> Tons in HTML, CSS etc.

I dont think those count as 'languages'. Afaik they are not turing
complete.

Quote:
> and a bit in JS.

> Though I often use PHP( and will continue to do so ) I would like to 'learn'
> C/C++.

> I am slightly confused over a few issues though.

> I know C++ is an OO language.

Not only, it is (apparently) a multi-paradigm language, see

http://www.research.att.com/~bs

Quote:
> Should I try and learn C++ or C first?

It depends, I suppose, on what you would like to
achieve.

Quote:

> How hard should I expect this to be?

C or C++ ?

Quote:

> What should I use for development? I probably need a complier for
> starters...

Do a search on google for a free compiler for your platform

Quote:
> Will I need a book or is it easy enough to learn from internet resources?

Get a book, suggested readings are posted quite often in both
comp.lang.c and comp.lang.c++

hth

--
goose
ruse at webmail dot co dot za



Sun, 06 Feb 2005 18:30:56 GMT  
 Getting Started

Quote:


> > I have a fair bit of experiance in PHP.

> > Tons in HTML, CSS etc.

> I dont think those count as 'languages'. Afaik they are not turing
> complete.

I think PHP counts as a scripting language. But not so sure with HTML, CSS

Quote:
> > and a bit in JS.

Same as PHP scripting language

Quote:
> > Though I often use PHP( and will continue to do so ) I would like to
'learn'
> > C/C++.

> > I am slightly confused over a few issues though.

> > I know C++ is an OO language.

> Not only, it is (apparently) a multi-paradigm language, see

> http://www.research.att.com/~bs

I don't get you here... A multi pattern or model language?

Quote:
> > Should I try and learn C++ or C first?

> It depends, I suppose, on what you would like to
> achieve.

Couldn't say exactly. I am interested in writting Games.

Quote:

> > How hard should I expect this to be?

> C or C++ ?

Both, probably C++ (I am interested in games and I think OO *may* make this
easier)

Quote:

> > What should I use for development? I probably need a complier for
> > starters...

> Do a search on google for a free compiler for your platform

OK

Quote:
> > Will I need a book or is it easy enough to learn from internet
resources?

> Get a book, suggested readings are posted quite often in both
> comp.lang.c and comp.lang.c++

Ok


Sun, 06 Feb 2005 19:35:54 GMT  
 Getting Started

on comp.lang.c:

Quote:


>> > I have a fair bit of experiance in PHP.

>> > Tons in HTML, CSS etc.

>> I dont think those count as 'languages'. Afaik they are not turing
>> complete.
> I think PHP counts as a scripting language. But not so sure with HTML, CSS

They are markup languages, as are XML and LaTeX. Note that while
HTML and CSS are specialised for web sites, and{*filter*}is specialised
for printed documents, XML is general-purpose and doesn't even have to
represent visually viewable data at all.
Markup languages are not programming languages and programming
languages are not markup languages.
As I said in my article about XML in a Java seminar course in the
University:
"Programming languages specify how to _do_ things. Markup languages
specify what things _are_ like. A [markup] document can't be 'run',
it has no input and no output."

--

| Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" G++ FR FW+ M- #108 D+ ADA N+++|
| http://www.*-*-*.com/ ~palaste       W++ B OP+                     |
\----------------------------------------- Finland rules! ------------/
"To know me IS to love me."
   - JIPsoft



Sun, 06 Feb 2005 19:55:29 GMT  
 Getting Started

Quote:
> I have a fair bit of experiance in PHP.

> Tons in HTML, CSS etc.

> and a bit in JS.

> Though I often use PHP( and will continue to do so ) I would like to
'learn'
> C/C++.

Decide on C or C++. IMHO C is a superior languange. If you need
any of the features C++ offer, then you are better off choosing
something else.

Quote:

> I am slightly confused over a few issues though.

> I know C++ is an OO language.
> Should I try and learn C++ or C first?

No. Learn what you want or need to learn.

Quote:

> How hard should I expect this to be?

Not hard. But C++ takes longer to learn than C. C also takes a while
compared to many languages though. The hardest part is figuring out
what invokes UB and what is implementation dependent etc. If you
read the faq for this group you should be well covered though.

Quote:

> What should I use for development? I probably need a complier for
> starters...

Compiler and editor. Gcc and Emacs is a good mix. When developing
larger projects then make is useful. Note that questions about these
tools are really off topic here (At least technical questions about them).

Quote:

> Will I need a book or is it easy enough to learn from internet resources?

Books are better.

--
Thomas.

Approaching singularity.



Sun, 06 Feb 2005 19:10:43 GMT  
 Getting Started
* Joona I Palaste
| They are markup languages, as are XML and LaTeX.
:
| "Programming languages specify how to _do_ things. Markup languages
| specify what things _are_ like. A [markup] document can't be 'run',
| it has no input and no output."

(La)TeX is a turing-complete programming language.

Jeremy.



Sun, 06 Feb 2005 20:32:57 GMT  
 Getting Started


Quote:


>> Not only, it is (apparently) a multi-paradigm language, see

>> http://www.research.att.com/~bs

> I don't get you here... A multi pattern or model language?

Multi-paradigm, wot he said. Allowing more than one paradigm, more
than one way of looking at things. Google is your friend:

    http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=paradigm&r=67

--
Chris "electric hedgehog" Dollin
C FAQs at: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/by-newsgroup/comp/comp.lang.c.html
C welcome: http://www.angelfire.com/ms3/bchambless0/welcome_to_clc.html



Sun, 06 Feb 2005 20:36:43 GMT  
 Getting Started

on comp.lang.c:

Quote:
> * Joona I Palaste
> | They are markup languages, as are XML and LaTeX.
> :
> | "Programming languages specify how to _do_ things. Markup languages
> | specify what things _are_ like. A [markup] document can't be 'run',
> | it has no input and no output."
> (La)TeX is a turing-complete programming language.

Can you show me the full source code to, for example, a program that
reads a list of integers and outputs them sorted, in (La)TeX?

--

| Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" G++ FR FW+ M- #108 D+ ADA N+++|
| http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste       W++ B OP+                     |
\----------------------------------------- Finland rules! ------------/
"To doo bee doo bee doo."
   - Frank Sinatra



Sun, 06 Feb 2005 20:58:38 GMT  
 Getting Started

Quote:



>>>I have a fair bit of experiance in PHP.

>>>Tons in HTML, CSS etc.

>>I dont think those count as 'languages'. Afaik they are not turing
>>complete.

> I think PHP counts as a scripting language. But not so sure with HTML, CSS

<oops> sorry ... I didn't mean to include PHP in that sentence above,
just HTML, CSS, etc

<snip>

Quote:
>>Not only, it is (apparently) a multi-paradigm language, see

>>http://www.research.att.com/~bs

> I don't get you here... A multi pattern or model language?

It means that it supports more than one programming
paradigm. I would advise reading over the link above.

Quote:

>>>Should I try and learn C++ or C first?

>>It depends, I suppose, on what you would like to
>>achieve.

> Couldn't say exactly. I am interested in writting Games.

Any specific target platform/market/gameType ?
do a search on google for forums that are into games
development, maybe do a search for relevant newsgroups
as well ?

Quote:

>>>How hard should I expect this to be?

>>C or C++ ?

> Both, probably C++ (I am interested in games and I think OO *may* make this
> easier)

I'd choose one, and then work hard at it. C is probably cleaner to
learn with, it is also a lot smaller, so there is less *features* to
learn

hth

<snip>

--
goose
ruse at webmail dot co dot za



Sun, 06 Feb 2005 22:12:53 GMT  
 Getting Started

Quote:

> I know C++ is an OO language. Should I try and learn C++ or C first?

Personally, I would suggest learning C first - largely because C is a
much simplier language.

The two share much in common, but do have some significant differences
which you will need to learn. C++ throws on a whole lot of extra stuff,
much of which is of dubious usefullness (imho).

Quote:
> How hard should I expect this to be?

Not very considering you are already quite familiar with the basic
constructs that nearly every language shares (if/then, loops, functions,
etc.) with your knowledge of PHP, etc.

Quote:
> What should I use for development? I probably need a complier for
> starters...

Yes, you do need a complier...

Depends upon your system. If you're on a Mac, you cannot go wrong with
Codewarrior.

Quote:
> Will I need a book or is it easy enough to learn from internet resources?

At a minimum, you will want to pick up

  The C Programming Language
  by Kernighan & Ritchie

It was the only book I ever needed to learn C.

For C++ it would be:

  The C++ Programming Language
  by Bjarne Stroustrup

--
== Eric Gorr ========= http://www.*-*-*.com/ ========= ICQ:9293199 ===
"Therefore the considerations of the intelligent always include both
benefit and harm." - Sun Tzu
== Insults, like {*filter*}, are the last refuge of the incompetent... ===



Sun, 06 Feb 2005 22:18:21 GMT  
 Getting Started

Quote:

> on comp.lang.c:
>> * Joona I Palaste
>> | They are markup languages, as are XML and LaTeX.
>> :
>> | "Programming languages specify how to _do_ things. Markup languages
>> | specify what things _are_ like. A [markup] document can't be 'run',
>> | it has no input and no output."
>> (La)TeX is a turing-complete programming language.
> Can you show me the full source code to, for example, a program that
> reads a list of integers and outputs them sorted, in (La)TeX?

Ha ha.  People don't program in TeX for a reason.  I suspect it would almost
be easier to code directly in postscript than in TeX.

In any case, the cite package
(ftp://cam.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/supported/cite.ta...)
is a macro package which sorts and compresses arbitrary integers (used for
citations -- e.g. you want your references to go [3,7-9,14,19] instead of
[7,14,19,8,3,9] or whatever).



it into the proper spot.  Like an insertion sort, I guess.  Compression
happens afterwards I guess.




%




       \else % number goes here

    \fi\fi}

Quote:
}%

Don't ask me to explain it.  My poor TeX proficiencies don't let me
understand anything more complex than a simple for-loop.

I'm sure if you're interested, there is probably a TeX newsgroup to help you.
Asking for TeX help on comp.lang.c is like, well, not very smart :)

--
 /"\                                                 m i k e   b u r r e l l

  X        AGAINST HTML MAIL,
 / \      AND NEWS TOO, dammit



Mon, 07 Feb 2005 02:13:58 GMT  
 Getting Started

on comp.lang.c:

Quote:

>> Can you show me the full source code to, for example, a program that
>> reads a list of integers and outputs them sorted, in (La)TeX?
> Ha ha.  People don't program in TeX for a reason.  I suspect it would almost
> be easier to code directly in PostScript than in TeX.
> In any case, the cite package
> (ftp://cam.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/supported/cite.ta...)
> is a macro package which sorts and compresses arbitrary integers (used for
> citations -- e.g. you want your references to go [3,7-9,14,19] instead of
> [7,14,19,8,3,9] or whatever).

(snip code)

Quote:
> Don't ask me to explain it.  My poor TeX proficiencies don't let me
> understand anything more complex than a simple for-loop.
> I'm sure if you're interested, there is probably a TeX newsgroup to help you.
> Asking for TeX help on comp.lang.c is like, well, not very smart :)

Wow, perhaps someone could implement Eliza in TeX? Maybe I'll ask the
folks over at the TeX newsgroup to do that... =)

--

| Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" G++ FR FW+ M- #108 D+ ADA N+++|
| http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste       W++ B OP+                     |
\----------------------------------------- Finland rules! ------------/
"As we all know, the hardware for the PC is great, but the software sucks."
   - Petro Tyschtschenko



Mon, 07 Feb 2005 02:18:50 GMT  
 Getting Started

Quote:

> Both, probably C++ (I am interested in games and I think OO *may* make >
this easier)

Most games have a budget of a few million dollars and are written by a team
of maybe 4-10 programmers over one or two years.
Language used is invariably C++ but written in a "Cish" fashion - it's rare
to see full object-oriented design.
It is much easier to learn C++ if you are already fluent in C, just as it is
easier to learn C if you know an assembly language.


Mon, 07 Feb 2005 04:24:35 GMT  
 Getting Started

Quote:
> * Joona I Palaste
> | They are markup languages, as are XML and LaTeX.
> :
> | "Programming languages specify how to _do_ things. Markup languages
> | specify what things _are_ like. A [markup] document can't be 'run',
> | it has no input and no output."

> (La)TeX is a turing-complete programming language.

And so is PHP.

--
Thomas.

Approaching singularity.



Mon, 07 Feb 2005 02:42:58 GMT  
 Getting Started

Quote:
> > Both, probably C++ (I am interested in games and I think OO *may* make >
> this easier)

> Most games have a budget of a few million dollars and are written by a
team
> of maybe 4-10 programmers over one or two years.
> Language used is invariably C++ but written in a "Cish" fashion - it's
rare
> to see full object-oriented design.
> It is much easier to learn C++ if you are already fluent in C, just as it
is
> easier to learn C if you know an assembly language.

Well I can get a team of 2(maybe 3 later) programmers plus 1 - 2 graphics
and 1 - 2 game design.

I will go for C++ I think.

Although C sounds eaiser The other programmer has used it a bit. But He only
uses it to write DLLs. He prefers to use VB 6.0 for most stuff.

I have a friend who is interested in learning C/C++ but he has no
programming experiance.

--
JJ Harrison

www.tececo.com



Mon, 07 Feb 2005 16:41:28 GMT  
 
 [ 15 post ] 

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