Where Do I Go From Here (repost) 
Author Message
 Where Do I Go From Here (repost)

[I posted this from another server, and it doesn't appear to be
propagating.
So here is another attempt]

I have been learning C from the first part of the book (before you get
to the obsolete Windows stuff) that used to come with Microsoft Quick C
and compiling the sample programs using GCC. I also found a copy of
Teach Yourself C by Herbert Schildt in my local library, which seems to
cover the same material in more detail. At this point, based on either
what I have learned or what I can
look up, it seems that I can use all the basics to write programs that
receive input from the command line and print output to the screen.  I
haven't mastered the material I have already covered, of course, but as
long as I can actually use what I have already covered, I would like to
investigate programs that go beyond the command line. One thing I liked
about learning some Java a year or so ago was that one can start using
the windowing toolkit early on. So what would be a good next thing to
start working on (while still getting better at the basics)? It seems
that ncurses would allow me to go beyond the command line in Linux, GTK+

would enable me to do it for X Windows, and then there is Win32 API, the

current version, I guess, of  the Microsoft stuff in the Quick C book.
Which of these or any other possibilities would be good for some modest
ventures beyond the command line? I am stressing the "modest" part here.

Thanks in advance,

Binyomin



Sat, 24 Aug 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Where Do I Go From Here (repost)


Quote:
> [I posted this from another server, and it doesn't appear to be
> propagating.
> So here is another attempt]

> I have been learning C from the first part of the book (before you get
> to the obsolete Windows stuff) that used to come with Microsoft Quick
C
> and compiling the sample programs using GCC. I also found a copy of
> Teach Yourself C by Herbert Schildt in my local library, which seems
to
> cover the same material in more detail. At this point, based on either
> what I have learned or what I can
> look up, it seems that I can use all the basics to write programs that
> receive input from the command line and print output to the screen.  I
> haven't mastered the material I have already covered, of course, but
as
> long as I can actually use what I have already covered, I would like
to
> investigate programs that go beyond the command line. One thing I
liked
> about learning some Java a year or so ago was that one can start using
> the windowing toolkit early on. So what would be a good next thing to
> start working on (while still getting better at the basics)? It seems
> that ncurses would allow me to go beyond the command line in Linux,
GTK+

> would enable me to do it for X Windows, and then there is Win32 API,
the

> current version, I guess, of  the Microsoft stuff in the Quick C book.
> Which of these or any other possibilities would be good for some
modest
> ventures beyond the command line? I am stressing the "modest" part
here.

> Thanks in advance,

> Binyomin

I would recomend trying a few C-like languages such as C++ and Perl.
Knowing many languages are always good and it gives a deeper
understanding of how computers in general work as well as of which
programming language suits a given problem (filtering text out of a text
file is a job for Perl for example, and not for C++).

Poring your code between several operating systems is also a good
exercise (especially if it contains systemn specific stuff).

Trying out one or several APIs is always a good way of getting further.
It might be hard in the beginning to be forced into using routines that
you haven't written yourself, but it also makes you more aware of how
library interfaces should be written and used.

Trying to understand event-loops (frequently used in GUI-programming) is
good. Interrupt driven programs... signal handling... sockets...
tcp/ip... inter-process communication... client/server... databases...
internet applications... up up and away!

/A

--
+---------------------+
| Andreas K?h?ri
| Uppsala University
| Sweden

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.



Sun, 25 Aug 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Where Do I Go From Here (repost)
On Thu, 09 Mar 2000 02:45:04 +0800, /*Pingu*/

Quote:

>In my view, you are right, we should go beyond the command line program coz
>no one will use it in practical. So, GUI must be the next step we go. But,
>how to be GUI???
>That is the piont. Java is a good choice for its compatibility.

NB with other java by the same vendor. I read a press release today
that says Sun have refused to allow international standards
organizations to set up a Java Standard. This means each vendor is now
free to modify it as they like. Indeed this has already happened and
MS-Java is differnt from Sun-Java is different from IBM-Java etc

Quote:
>java may be
>too difficult for the new programmer. Perhaps, VB may be a good choice, if u
>are willing to learn another language. If u didn't, u ought to upgrade to
>c++. Because the win32 application must need c++ knowlege and concept.

Not at all true. People have been programming in Win32 API for years
before C++ and class libraries wrapped it all up.

Quote:
>Before you learn the win32 programming, u must learn the SDK. You may refer
>to the msdn to know what it is.
>Hope this could give u a little brain storm!!

Mark McIntyre

C- FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html



Sun, 25 Aug 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Where Do I Go From Here (repost)
First the presence of a standard does not require that everyone comply
with it. See also: ANSI C.

Second the absence of a standard does not make every vendor "free to
modify it as they like". Microsoft tried this, using Sun's codebase, and
is now on the business end of a court case.

Third the IBM JDK passed all the compatibility tests set forward by Sun,
and I have yet to find a place where the documented APIs differ. Even
Microsoft's implementation claims (I have never tested it) to be able to
handle any standard JDK 1.1 code.

Chris

Quote:

> On Thu, 09 Mar 2000 02:45:04 +0800, /*Pingu*/

[snip]
> >That is the piont. Java is a good choice for its compatibility.

> NB with other java by the same vendor. I read a press release today
> that says Sun have refused to allow international standards
> organizations to set up a Java Standard. This means each vendor is now
> free to modify it as they like. Indeed this has already happened and
> MS-Java is differnt from Sun-Java is different from IBM-Java etc

[snip]
Quote:
> Mark McIntyre

> C- FAQ: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html



Sun, 25 Aug 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Where Do I Go From Here (repost)
That is your opinion. For those of us who use compilers from five
languages (only one of them controlled by Sun) to JVM bytecode, it is
simply FUD.

Just a random thought, was the 386 machine language standardized? If not
we could start a whole chain of pre-standard C comparisons, which might
actually be on topic ;)

[snip]

Quote:
> Sun's absurd claim to own a language standard is the one blemish on an
> interesting project.
> For this blaspemy, I hope they draw the ire of the entire universe.  Far
> more bellicose than anything Microsoft has ever done.  Included in that list
> is the destruction of Stack.
[snip]
> Java will be (err... already is) the VB of the new Millennium.  Like it or
> not.



Sun, 25 Aug 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Where Do I Go From Here (repost)
In my view, you are right, we should go beyond the command line program coz
no one will use it in practical. So, GUI must be the next step we go. But,
how to be GUI???
That is the piont. Java is a good choice for its compatibility. java may be
too difficult for the new programmer. Perhaps, VB may be a good choice, if u
are willing to learn another language. If u didn't, u ought to upgrade to
c++. Because the win32 application must need c++ knowlege and concept.
Before you learn the win32 programming, u must learn the SDK. You may refer
to the msdn to know what it is.
Hope this could give u a little brain storm!!


Mon, 26 Aug 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Where Do I Go From Here (repost)

Quote:



> > That is your opinion. For those of us who use compilers from five
> > languages (only one of them controlled by Sun) to JVM bytecode, it is
> > simply FUD.
> Claiming to own a language standard is the most dangerous thing that has
> ever happened in computer science.  If you are not smart enough to see that,
> then I can't possibly help you.

They wrote it, they designed it, they own the trademark. I think it no
more than fair that they specify compatibility with _their_ specs to be
a requirement for being allowed to use _their_ trademark.
Of course, nobody _has_ to call their engine Java. They could always
write a look-alike called Borneo.
Now if someone had claimed copyright to BASIC, _that_ would've been
foolish; BASIC wasn't designed (AFAIK) for a single company, it was
designed for the general industry.

Richard



Mon, 26 Aug 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Where Do I Go From Here (repost)

Quote:

>Now if someone had claimed copyright to BASIC, _that_ would've been
>foolish; BASIC wasn't designed (AFAIK) for a single company, it was
>designed for the general industry.

For the record, BASIC wasn't designed, and it wasn't for industry; it was
slapped together to introduce novices to bad programming habits.


Mon, 26 Aug 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Where Do I Go From Here (repost)


Quote:





> > > > That is your opinion. For those of us who use compilers from
five
> > > > languages (only one of them controlled by Sun) to JVM bytecode,
it is
> > > > simply FUD.
> > > Claiming to own a language standard is the most dangerous thing
that has
> > > ever happened in computer science.  If you are not smart enough
to see
> that,
> > > then I can't possibly help you.

I don't think it's the most dangerous thing that has ever
happened in computer science--I doubt that it's killed anyone,
as some dangerous programming practices have.

Quote:
> > They wrote it, they designed it, they own the trademark. I think it
no
> > more than fair that they specify compatibility with _their_ specs
to be
> > a requirement for being allowed to use _their_ trademark.
> > Of course, nobody _has_ to call their engine Java. They could always
> > write a look-alike called Borneo.
> > Now if someone had claimed copyright to BASIC, _that_ would've been
> > foolish; BASIC wasn't designed (AFAIK) for a single company, it was
> > designed for the general industry.

I think BASIC was invented at Dartmouth for educational purposes.

Quote:
> What UTTER HOGWASH.  AT&T designed C.  I guess they should have
demanded
> that no one else can do anything with it except what they say?

(Is UTTER HOGWASH a SUBJECT or an OBJECT?)

Initially they let universities study Unix source code but later
restricted this to keep control of it as a product.  I think it
was the Department of Defense that introduced controlling a
language through a trademark with Ada (e.g., subsets could not
be called Ada for trademark reasons).  Still, I don't believe
there was any obstacle to creating a non-Ada language incorporating
any portion of Ada; has anyone ever successfully sued over the
theft of a language design that didn't involve stealing code?

AT&T probably had no idea of the potential value of C (what language
then had ever proven valuable?) until way too late to control
it; and trying to control it probably would have killed it before
it ever achieved any popularity, and we'd be making these off-topic
posts in comp.lang.bliss instead.

Quote:
> Microsoft called their product something else "J++" and they still
got sued
> for modifying it.  So both of your arguments are pure bologna.

I bet the J in J++ is intended to suggest Java(-like); the possibility
of creating confusion with the Java trademark would be sufficient
grounds to sue, if not to win.  My understanding was that Microsoft
got sued over violating licensing terms they had agreed to.

--
MJSR

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.



Mon, 26 Aug 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 
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