continue to use ISO C instead of C++, java or future hypes 
Author Message
 continue to use ISO C instead of C++, java or future hypes


[snip]

Quote:
> I wonder if there already is somewhere a
> movement of "I-do-not-want-to-change-the-
> programming-language-every-10-years-and-will-
> stay-with-ISO-C"-people, any websites?

[snip]

I think plenty of people have not made a move to the relatively recent
language C, for the reasons you mention. (I am not one such, because I
only started "serious" programming well after C was standardized and had
become popular.) fortran has been around in some form for much longer than
C, and many people are still working with the now-"obsolete" version
FORTRAN 77, because they understand it and it does the job. LISP also has
ancient origins, but comes in so many versions that it is arguably not a
single language.

As I say I am quite new to programming but can see how depressing it might
get over the years, the way languages and systems change in one
self-perpetuating upgrade "process".

At some stage in the next few years you will have to decide whether to
move to C9x, for example. At least C9x stays fairly close to the "spirit"
of C89 and the change would be minor, compared to moving to C++. (A lot,
but not all, of the proposed changes in C9x are genuine improvements to C;
there is a fair, but not total, degree of backwards-compatibility with
C89.)

Daniel Barker,
Institute of Cell and Molecular Biology,
Swann Building,
King's Buildings,
Mayfield Road,
Edinburgh
EH9 3JR
UK



Sun, 27 May 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 continue to use ISO C instead of C++, java or future hypes
[...]
: I think too much effort is put in learning
: new languages. Let's stay with C, because
: there is already a huge base of code and knowledge

This is a compelling reason to stick with C for many cases.  There
are also many cases where there isn't a significant code or knowledge
base to leverage.  Sticking with C in those cases may incur unnecessary
burden upon your development.

: and its free from structured control flow trashing
: by "exceptions".

This issue must be examined closely.  Does C have a better way of
handling exceptions, or does your garden variety C program simply
not handle exceptions?  IOW, is C easier to read because it is so
by design, or simply because it simplified its problem domain?

: OO programming, platform independent programming
: and so on can be done in ISO C, I do not
: want to go into details here.

You should.  ANSI/ISO C is highly portable, when used correctly.
I have yet to see good examples of OOP in C.  C's lack of OOP
syntax and semantics forces the programmer to do more work than
is necessary, and so isn't usually a good choice for OOP.

: I wonder if there already is somewhere a
: movement of "I-do-not-want-to-change-the-
: programming-language-every-10-years-and-will-
: stay-with-ISO-C"-people, any websites?
[...]

Why not dispense with the religious debates and change languages
when the project is best (including learning curve) done using a
different language?  Engineering is about getting a good product
out in time, not about programming language or paradigm preference.



Sun, 27 May 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 continue to use ISO C instead of C++, java or future hypes

Quote:
> ok, let's take english as an example.

gee, english hasn't changed at all over the last 10 years.

just ask anyone in alt.usage.english - follow ups there (off topic here)



Mon, 28 May 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 continue to use ISO C instead of C++, java or future hypes

Quote:

> I think too much effort is put in learning
> new languages.

I've just been working on a project that used C++ with the STL, and I
must disagree in the strongest possible terms. Newer languages have
such amazing productivity gains that it is hard to make an argument for
not using them. Legacy code is the only reason I can think of to still
use C.

Using old computer languages, by analogy, is not analogous to replacing
a *natural language* every few years (this is certainly not necessary,
and an organic language like Perl has shown even a computer language
can grow and adapt), but is much more like refusing to quit using Roman
numerals after someone shows you the decimal point!

Quote:
> I wonder if there already is somewhere a
> movement of "I-do-not-want-to-change-the-
> programming-language-every-10-years-and-will-
> stay-with-ISO-C"-people, any websites?

There will always be a Luddite-like faction which resists any change,
regardless of what the change is. You can bank on that.

Scott



Mon, 28 May 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 continue to use ISO C instead of C++, java or future hypes


: > I've just been working on a project that used C++ with the STL, and I
: > must disagree in the strongest possible terms.

: whew, i am impressed by that strong language! but sincerely,
: I read a book about C++/STL and I must agree to some extend:
: concepts like iterators and templates are real strong.
: But interfaces (in the oo sense) could have been defined just
: as well in C (as a struct of function pointers) and a standard
: for c interfaces plus a standard c library using this standard
: would have done as well.

Well, no.  GUI interfaces are a real pig.  I've just started programming
them, and I'm happy with the APIs, happy with the algorithms, and very
unhappy with the look of my code.  There's just too much state to be
kept around; OO techniques break up that state and store it in the
particular classes to which it's relevant.  I'm writing GUI code in C
for various reasons, mostly because it's a C API and I don't know
C++ well, but no question, I'd be a lot more productive in something
OO.  (Preferably Modula-3, but I'll take what I can get).

Will



Tue, 29 May 2001 03:00:00 GMT  
 
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