Intel Secrets Web Site forced to quit some web site activity... 
Author Message
 Intel Secrets Web Site forced to quit some web site activity...

Quote:

>On December 31, 1996, I will stop selling T-Shirts and Mouse Pads.
>If you haven't ordered one, then you must do so before this date.
>Also on December 31, 1996, the Intel Secrets Web Site will cease
>to function under the name "Intel Secrets."  Many changes will take
>place at the same time.  I will not discuss the details, so don't
>bother to ask.  Instead, go to my web site, and download everything
>you can -- because after the end of the year, some of the material
>will be going away.

This is a sad, sad thing =-(

Joseph



Thu, 29 Apr 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Intel Secrets Web Site forced to quit some web site activity...

Quote:


> >On December 31, 1996, I will stop selling T-Shirts and Mouse Pads.
> >If you haven't ordered one, then you must do so before this date.
> >Also on December 31, 1996, the Intel Secrets Web Site will cease
> >to function under the name "Intel Secrets."  Many changes will take
> >place at the same time.  I will not discuss the details, so don't
> >bother to ask.  Instead, go to my web site, and download everything
> >you can -- because after the end of the year, some of the material
> >will be going away.

> This is a sad, sad thing =-(

> Joseph

I agree, It doesn't say much for
Freedom of Speech(R)(C).
Copyright all rights reserved to the people.
Under penalty of death.

I guess that is for sale too.
Who and what is next?

--
The only government hand out I want is
the government's hand out of my pocket
---

http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/6173



Thu, 29 Apr 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Intel Secrets Web Site forced to quit some web site activity...

Quote:

> Also on December 31, 1996, the Intel Secrets Web Site will cease
> to function under the name "Intel Secrets."  Many changes will take
> place at the same time.  I will not discuss the details, so don't
> bother to ask.  Instead, go to my web site, and download everything
> you can -- because after the end of the year, some of the material
> will be going away.

All I can say is.. Oh SHIT! First Christian Ludloff's site, now yours. I
guess this means that corporate pressure can control the Net after all,
huh? So much for the information ecosystem, the megacorps have moved in
and are systematically destroying everything good about the net. I feel
sick to my stomach; the development of the Net could be mankind's
greatest achievement yet, but external pressures are destroying it --
like they are destroying the rainforest, one of the richest ecosystems
in existance.

Jaron Lanier said that commercialization of the net would kill it (as
well as many others), and it seems like that is happening.

I saw a remark somewhere that "the web is becoming just another medium",
aka a passive, corporate-controlled pipe like the TV media is today.
Netizens, we MUST fight this growing Net.evil. For the sake of our
freedom, and the freedom of information itself. Please. It's our only
hope.

The destruction of information is akin to the burning of books. Please
don't leave that as a legacy to your children. Please don't let them be
just a number in a big-money controlled world, slaving away to support
the very rich at the top, because that's how they view things at the
top; a big food chain, with you at the bottom. Make no mistake about it.

Quote:
> Intel Secrets:  http://www.x86.org

May it R.I.P. I'll miss it.


Thu, 29 Apr 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Intel Secrets Web Site forced to quit some web site activity...

Quote:
>> >On December 31, 1996, I will stop selling T-Shirts and Mouse Pads.
>> >If you haven't ordered one, then you must do so before this date.
>> >Also on December 31, 1996, the Intel Secrets Web Site will cease
>> >to function under the name "Intel Secrets."  Many changes will take
>> >place at the same time.  I will not discuss the details, so don't
>> >bother to ask.  Instead, go to my web site, and download everything
>> >you can -- because after the end of the year, some of the material
>> >will be going away.

>> This is a sad, sad thing =-(

        Not necessarily sad, sad.  Robert just has to regroup and
distance things from the word "Intel" I imagine.  If he isn't
providing proprietary or copyrighted information that does not belong
to him or describing/defaming a real company against their wishes
there shouldn't be any concerns.  Perhaps he could change the name to
some clever fictional company?  In any case it doesn't sound like he
is shutting down, but rather that he cannot use the word "Intel" or
get to close to their registered logos, etc.  So, let's hope he can
distance himself but be clever enough doing it that Intel will still
visit his website but won't have concern.  I'm not sure I want to be
in his shoes right now though as the possible legal actions of large
corporations would scare me to death.

Quote:
>I agree, It doesn't say much for Freedom of Speech(R)(C).
>Copyright all rights reserved to the people.

        I disagree.  I think it says everything for freedom of speech.
The computer industry itself is one of the finest examples too.  If
you don't jealously protect what belongs to you others will steal it
right out from under your nose.  Look at corporate espionage and
software piracy!

        My two freedom cents.


          * Sometimes The Dragon Wins! *



Thu, 29 Apr 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Intel Secrets Web Site forced to quit some web site activity...

Quote:



> > >On December 31, 1996, I will stop selling T-Shirts and Mouse Pads.
> > >If you haven't ordered one, then you must do so before this date.
> > >Also on December 31, 1996, the Intel Secrets Web Site will cease
> > >to function under the name "Intel Secrets."  Many changes will take
> > >place at the same time.  I will not discuss the details, so don't
> > >bother to ask.  Instead, go to my web site, and download everything
> > >you can -- because after the end of the year, some of the material
> > >will be going away.

> > This is a sad, sad thing =-(

> > Joseph

> I agree, It doesn't say much for
> Freedom of Speech(R)(C).
> Copyright all rights reserved to the people.
> Under penalty of death.

"The government shall pass no law.. etc"  is the basis for free speech.
That means the GOVERNMENT cannot restrict our speech.
I don't see the government involved here, so where is the free
speech issue?

Because the original post carries the title

"Intel Secrets Web Site forced to quit some web site activity..."
I assume it is the result of an out of court settlement. Robert's
refusal to discuss details must be due to an additional condition
of that settlement. Does anyone really think an individual should
be able to post company secrets that they do not have a license to
and remain unaccountable? That's not what freedom of speech is about.

Lee



Thu, 29 Apr 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Intel Secrets Web Site forced to quit some web site activity...

[snip]

Quote:
> of that settlement. Does anyone really think an individual should
> be able to post company secrets that they do not have a license to
> and remain unaccountable? That's not what freedom of speech is about.

Since when are undocumented features company secrets? By your reasoning
anyone who posts an easter egg can be sued by the company who included
it into their program. So if I put up an article on my web site on how
the Win95 easter egg is done, does this mean Mickey$oft can sue me???
Once a program/object is released to the public, information regarding
its operation is public knowledge. Just because the company does not
approve/acknowledge some of its uses doesn't make it a company secret.
So if I want to use my toaster to dry socks, and then post how well it
works on the web, Black and Decker can't sue me because I used their
product for other then intended uses. If my socks burn up, and I sue
them, then they are not responsible as I was using the object outside
its operating parameters.
        Later,

        Mike.

--
 -------------------------------------------
/   Michal Czupryn / Rensselaer Polytechnic \
[-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-]

| WWW:   http://www.rpi.edu/~czuprm         |
| PGP:   Key available by request or at     |
\        http://www.rpi.edu/~czuprm/pgp.htm /
 -------------------------------------------



Thu, 29 Apr 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Intel Secrets Web Site forced to quit some web site activity...

Quote:
>Since when are undocumented features company secrets? By your reasoning
>anyone who posts an easter egg can be sued by the company who included
>it into their program. So if I put up an article on my web site on how
>the Win95 easter egg is done, does this mean Mickey$oft can sue me???
>Once a program/object is released to the public, information regarding
>its operation is public knowledge. Just because the company does not
>approve/acknowledge some of its uses doesn't make it a company secret.
>So if I want to use my toaster to dry socks, and then post how well it
>works on the web, Black and Decker can't sue me because I used their
>product for other then intended uses. If my socks burn up, and I sue
>them, then they are not responsible as I was using the object outside
>its operating parameters.

        I agree basically too, and I have not been to the website to try
and make positive id's on this subject, nor do I intend to.  But I
would like to point out again that _probably_ what is happening is the
website may be quoting copyrighted materials without permission, and
using the Intel logo or something so close to it that Intel objects.


          * Sometimes The Dragon Wins! *



Thu, 29 Apr 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Intel Secrets Web Site forced to quit some web site activity...

Quote:

>         I agree basically too, and I have not been to the website to try
> and make positive id's on this subject, nor do I intend to.  But I

Good site. You should if you have the chance. Up to you though.

Quote:
> would like to point out again that _probably_ what is happening is the
> website may be quoting copyrighted materials without permission, and
> using the Intel logo or something so close to it that Intel objects.

That or Intel is just trying to cover up its other bugs and "hidden"
features (read: more bugs) to avoid negative press. Remember what
happened with the Pentium divide error? The cover up and misleading
information from many sources that went along with that? This site is
basically a list of Intel's mistakes, many of which they have never
publicly acknowledged. I dunno...I just think its a shame that they're
bullying Robert like that. They're being sticklers to some arcane laws
or informalities trying to protect their image, while doing exactly the
opposite. I always considered Intel a good company, but now I have
serious doubts.

-Mike.

--
 -------------------------------------------
/   Michal Czupryn / Rensselaer Polytechnic \
[-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-]

| WWW:   http://www.rpi.edu/~czuprm         |
| PGP:   Key available by request or at     |
\        http://www.rpi.edu/~czuprm/pgp.htm /
 -------------------------------------------



Thu, 29 Apr 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Intel Secrets Web Site forced to quit some web site activity...

Quote:

> That or Intel is just trying to cover up its other bugs and "hidden"
> features (read: more bugs) to avoid negative press. <snip>

Let me remind you that Intel is the ONLY company that posts it
errata publicly. That doesn't sound like a company that is trying to
hide bugs. Why not ask AIM for their errata list? What are they
hidding? What about Cyrix? AMD? SPARC? ALPHA? Why won't they
post their errata?

Lee



Thu, 29 Apr 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Intel Secrets Web Site forced to quit some web site activity...

Quote:


> [snip]
> > of that settlement. Does anyone really think an individual should
> > be able to post company secrets that they do not have a license to
> > and remain unaccountable? That's not what freedom of speech is about.

> Since when are undocumented features company secrets? By your reasoning
> anyone who posts an easter egg can be sued by the company who included
> it into their program.<snip>

Boy do you ever jump to conclusions!

I have no idea what Intel is objecting to, and Robert is refusing to
tell us. How do you know that undocumented features are the issue
here? The statement I made (if you would bother to read it) was
about company secrets that require a license. That could be
copywrited material (I really don't know). Are you arguing that
copywrite laws should be thrown out? I don't suppose that you are,
but what if that is the issue here?

 The point I started out to make was in response to the question of
free speach, and what does and does not fall under it. What is your
point?

Lee



Thu, 29 Apr 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Intel Secrets Web Site forced to quit some web site activity...

Quote:


> ><snip>
> You said, and I quote

> "I assume it is the result of an out of court settlement. Robert's
> refusal to discuss details must be due to an additional condition of
> that settlement. Does anyone really think an individual should be able
> to post company secrets that they do not have a license to and remain
> unaccountable? That's not what freedom of speech is about."

> Now, this message is referring to Robert's web site and the supposed
> secrets he has on there. Since you talk about company secrets in the
> same paragraph that you mention Robert's site, I took the information on
> his page to be what you meant by company secrets. If you were speaking
> generally, then you should have made a clearer departure from the
> original subject. If not, then the "secrets" Robert acquired weren't
> from Intel files, but from experimantation and apparent bugs. Now, since
> this is the way he acquired them, why should be held accountable? That
> is the point I'm making.

Since Robert refuses to talk, we don't know what the real issue is.
It may be restricted to the contents of his web page, it may not. We
don't know, but I assume that Intel couldn't and wouldn't persue someone
for publishing public information or information derived from publicly
available materials or devices. {*filter*} theorists may differ.

<snip>

Quote:
> My point is exactly the same. What Robert has is free speach, unless he
> acquired the information on his site illegally or has copyright
> violations, which he claims he does not. Therefore, why should he be
> prosecuted for releasing possibly harmful information? That's it.

I agree, but as you say "unless he acquired the information on his site
illegally or has copyright violations..." But who said anything about
prosecution? That would be public and he could talk about it. This
appears to be a civil case.

Perhaps not you, but some may believe that Intel is an evil corporation that
would stomp the life out of anyone who dares to air Intel's dirty laundry.
I do not. I think any company would take appropriate steps to protect their
intellectual property and copywrites. I believe that's what's going on here.

Lee



Fri, 30 Apr 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Intel Secrets Web Site forced to quit some web site activity...

Another 500 lb. gorilla runs amok!  Ben Myers

Quote:

>On December 31, 1996, I will stop selling T-Shirts and Mouse Pads.
>If you haven't ordered one, then you must do so before this date.
>Also on December 31, 1996, the Intel Secrets Web Site will cease
>to function under the name "Intel Secrets."  Many changes will take
>place at the same time.  I will not discuss the details, so don't
>bother to ask.  Instead, go to my web site, and download everything
>you can -- because after the end of the year, some of the material
>will be going away.
>Intel Secrets:  http://www.x86.org
>------
>For those of you that don't know about the Intel Secrets home page,
>read the following:
>-----
>Available at this WWW is a repository of undocumented information about
>the Intel Architecture x86 processors.  The information spans from 8086
>to the P6.
>Learn about undocumented opcodes, undocumented bits in debug registers,
>processor anomalies, processor bugs, and elegant programming techniques.
>Read on-line magazine articles about relevant topics.  And see why Intel
>has accessed this site nearly 18000 times (they obviously endorse it).
>All of this is available for your viewing and downloading, and is presented
>in an entertaining manner (entertaining to most people, that is).
>Just point your network browser to the following URL:
>http://www.x86.org
>Or anonymous FTP source code and other downloadables from:
>ftp://ftp.x86.org/pub/x86
>--
>"Intel Secrets -- What Intel doesn't want you to know"         Robert Collins
>HomePage:  http://www.x86.org       Anonymous FTP:  ftp://ftp.x86.org/pub/x86
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------




Fri, 30 Apr 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Intel Secrets Web Site forced to quit some web site activity...

Quote:


> > That or Intel is just trying to cover up its other bugs and "hidden"
> > features (read: more bugs) to avoid negative press. <snip>

> Let me remind you that Intel is the ONLY company that posts it
> errata publicly. That doesn't sound like a company that is trying to
> hide bugs. Why not ask AIM for their errata list? What are they
> hidding? What about Cyrix? AMD? SPARC? ALPHA? Why won't they
> post their errata?

They don't control the PC market!
Quote:

> Lee

I don't think this is about JUST errata and bugs, it is about freedom of
expression and the ability of people to share information without being
bullied. I don't see anybody trying to put Saturday Night Live out of
business because they poke fun at important people? There is a great
wealth of information there and it is to the CREDIT of these people that
they provide help to others.  If it's such a problem for people to speak
their opinions then perhaps somebody should look into the fact that you
wrote Cyrix(r) without stating it was a registered trademark. Perhaps
YOU are next!
Paul
The Intel Secrets Page is a valuable resource and if people don't want
every free resource to go away, then perhaps they should stand behind
those who stand at the front line?
http://www.x86.org

--
The only government hand out I want is
the government's hand out of my pocket
---
http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/6173



Fri, 30 Apr 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Intel Secrets Web Site forced to quit some web site activity...

Quote:

> Let me remind you that Intel is the ONLY company that posts it
> errata publicly. That doesn't sound like a company that is trying to

And I applaud them for that, but they haven't released the full list of
bugs in their processors.

Quote:
> hide bugs. Why not ask AIM for their errata list? What are they

Not hide their bugs? How long did it take Intel to acknowledge the
Pentium bug? From what I have heard they first tried to cover it up,
then downplay its significance and only after public outrage, agreed to
exchange the chips.

Quote:
> hidding? What about Cyrix? AMD? SPARC? ALPHA? Why won't they
> post their errata?

Perhaps, but that's beside the point.

-Mike

--
 -------------------------------------------
/   Michal Czupryn / Rensselaer Polytechnic \
[-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-]

| WWW:   http://www.rpi.edu/~czuprm         |
| PGP:   Key available by request or at     |
\        http://www.rpi.edu/~czuprm/pgp.htm /
 -------------------------------------------



Fri, 30 Apr 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Intel Secrets Web Site forced to quit some web site activity...

Quote:

> Since Robert refuses to talk, we don't know what the real issue is.
> It may be restricted to the contents of his web page, it may not. We
> don't know, but I assume that Intel couldn't and wouldn't persue someone
> for publishing public information or information derived from publicly
> available materials or devices. {*filter*} theorists may differ.

> I agree, but as you say "unless he acquired the information on his site
> illegally or has copyright violations..." But who said anything about
> prosecution? That would be public and he could talk about it. This
> appears to be a civil case.

You're straying from the point here. My original post dealt with the
fact that you stated that no "individual should be able to post company
secrets that they do not have a license to and remain unaccountable." I
say that what Robert has on his page are user discovered "anomalies",
none of which are stolen. Only assuming the information was illegally
obtained, which I very strongly doubt, should Intel bother with a civil
suit. What you are saying now is that we don't know whether the
complaints are about the information on the page or some arbitrary
graphics or logo. I am not contesting this, but rather started this
argument on the assumption that we both thought the conflict was only
caused by the information presented at the site and nothing else. Now
that you've changed your argument significantly, or maybe I should say
clarified it, this whole thing becomes a totally different situation.

-Mike.

--
 -------------------------------------------
/   Michal Czupryn / Rensselaer Polytechnic \
[-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-]

| WWW:   http://www.rpi.edu/~czuprm         |
| PGP:   Key available by request or at     |
\        http://www.rpi.edu/~czuprm/pgp.htm /
 -------------------------------------------



Fri, 30 Apr 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 
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