boycotting terse 
Author Message
 boycotting terse

Quote:


> >I'm kind of peeved... for one thing I said several times what I thought
> >the problems with terse are and then jim came along and said he couldn't
> >see any problems with terse and asked what I thought the problems with
> >terse are.  I don't like being treated in this fashion... I assume all
> >it means is Jim isn't interested in what other people think, he just wants
> >money for his idea.

> I disagree. Jim is right there helping folks ALL the time whether it be
> regarding TERSE or not regarding TERSE.

> >bounding qualities of the possible relationships.  But who would
> >argue that the principles that are used to combine notes into chords
> >are themselves a song that can be copyrighted?  Who would argue that the
> >relationship between two successive integral numbers is the kind of pattern
> >that can be copyrighted and withheld from mathematicians and scientists?

> I disagree. TERSE *IS* the equivalent to a song - a combination of chords
> and notes, etc. that make up the whole. I program and play guitar and can
> easily see the equate. The elements he used to create TERSE would be the
> notes, chords, etc. the whole program equals the song.

i suppose... the whole program equal the song, true.  but were not
taking about
the program, were taking about the language...

see my previous post, 'nega' vs 'terse' = 'infozip' vs 'pkzip'

and in addition,

'nega' do (did?) not implement all the feature of 'terse', only most,
and it do
some things that 'terse' do not do... i don't know what they are though

'infozip' do not implement all the feature of 'pkzip', only most, and it
do
some things that 'pkzip' do not do... portability, for instance

where is the difference?

and again, i say that Jim may be right - but note also, that Tenie has
live up
to his promise - to advertise 'terse' in his magazine.  there is no
breach of
contract unless Tenie signed agreement to not compete... i doubt it.

i dont think, even if Jim sued... he could get more than $58, the price
of a
copy of 'terse', or to get Tenie to give his copy of 'terse' back to
Jim...
or possibly triple of $58, or $174, but this would be still low amount
and not
worth lawyer fee

Quote:
> You can make your own choice, we can make ours. Jim Neil is NOT a large
> software conglomerate, just a guy that wrote a program, had it ripped off
> and cloned via imm{*filter*}deception and is fighting for what's his.

but i notice that you can not get 'nega' or 'hla/i' or other 'terse'
clone
anywhere on the internet... so no violation is occur now...  it would be
very difficult, for Jim to prove it actually harm him

i do not understand you point of view, a magazine is under no obligation
to either its advertisers, or the programs it review,

so if a guy at 'pc-magazine' get a copy of program, to review, and he
review
it...  and he also let his friend or colleague see it, and they produce
then
a similar program... the first guy is not violating copyright... there
is no
such crime as 'assisted copyright violation', and since they are off the
net
now, it could only be an 'attempted assisted copyright violation'...

and as for Tylisha be Tenie's psuedonym... maybe she do not have email,
is that so hard to understand?  most people in the world have not email.

still, even if she were his psuedonym - nega is not available on the
internet
so where is the violation?  it would be difficult to prove it harm
Jim... and
there nothing illegal about psuedonyms.

-- Yuri S.

yes my email address is bogus to not get junk mail, email me to get
the real thing...



Thu, 26 Aug 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 boycotting terse

I'm kind of peeved... for one thing I said several times what I thought
the problems with terse are and then jim came along and said he couldn't
see any problems with terse and asked what I thought the problems with
terse are.  I don't like being treated in this fashion... I assume all
it means is Jim isn't interested in what other people think, he just wants
money for his idea.

Which is becoming my general feeling about jim... he doesn't care as long
as he gets money.  For example he doesn't seem to care that his analogies
are all screwy.. he says over and over that terse is like a song that you
dance to.  But terse isn't a song, it is a collection of notes that
can be used to create a song... if terse were a song it would have a
single definite pattern and that pattern would be playing in the background
while you work.  Now I agree there IS a pattern to terse... but as jim
has pointed out himself it is the same kind of pattern that there is to
real numbers, the same kind of pattern that there is between notes that
can be used to make a song.  That is, there are rules which describe the
bounding qualities of the possible relationships.  But who would
argue that the principles that are used to combine notes into chords
are themselves a song that can be copyrighted?  Who would argue that the
relationship between two successive integral numbers is the kind of pattern
that can be copyrighted and withheld from mathematicians and scientists?

And yet jim would have us believe that the rules which govern the way that
the symbols of terse are put together are copyrightable in the same way
a song is copyrightable.  Notice- a song is a SPECIFIC combination of
notes that were put together according to the rules of songwriting.  Terse
then is more like the rules that guide the writing than it is a specific
combination of notes that make up a song.  For this reason I believe the
more accurate analogy is that terse is the notes, programs written in
terse are the song.  Jim's dance theme is wishful thinking.

I think jim is too blinded by his money seeking to look through anything
but tinted glasses: so I think what we should do is simply let him have
what he can get.  Terse really isn't that great for mainstream programming...
jim's absence of watching how people program in favor of unwavering over
the years has seen to that.  But meanwhile I recommend that those of us
who might be swayed to use terse for one simplistic project or another
simply abstain and use something else.  Simply don't promote it any further
than it has been and let jim's greed make it a still birth rather than
letting it grow into something that could be useful.

Sure we could fight him; and depending on who snowed the judge the best
(e.g. who's lawyer is better) the judge might give it to him.  But why bother
when we can just let it die off?

David



Fri, 27 Aug 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 boycotting terse

Whoah!,


Quote:
> I'm kind of peeved... for one thing I said several times what I thought
> the problems with terse are and then jim came along and said he couldn't
> see any problems with terse and asked what I thought the problems with
> terse are.  I don't like being treated in this fashion...

I doubt you have been treated in this manner. Jim is EXCELENT is
support of his customers and others. He probably wanted proof of
Terse giving problems, and you failed to provide him with it.
Then what can he do? Guess?

Quote:
> I assume all
> it means is Jim isn't interested in what other people think, he just wants
> money for his idea.

Now, THIS IS A LOAD OF CRAP!  Jim actually VALUES what people think and
say. We now have gone from discussion too personal attack and abuse.
Shame on you for being such a coward! What is your problem? If it is the
fact that you both disagree with eachother, then fine. Don't inflict
others with your lies. It is a matter between the two of you.

Quote:
> Which is becoming my general feeling about jim... he doesn't care as long
> as he gets money.  For example he doesn't seem to care that his analogies
> are all screwy.. he says over and over that terse is like a song that you
> dance to.  But terse isn't a song, it is a collection of notes that
> can be used to create a song...

Jim has quoted laws to back up his statements. You havn't quoted
ANYTHING!
I damn well challenge you to quote the laws of giving computer software
a _different_ treatment than a movie, a book, a song, etc, etc.

Put up, or shut up, please.

Quote:
> if terse were a song it would have a
> single definite pattern and that pattern would be playing in the background
> while you work.  Now I agree there IS a pattern to terse... but as jim
> has pointed out himself it is the same kind of pattern that there is to
> real numbers, the same kind of pattern that there is between notes that
> can be used to make a song.  That is, there are rules which describe the
> bounding qualities of the possible relationships.  But who would
> argue that the principles that are used to combine notes into chords
> are themselves a song that can be copyrighted?  

You're trying to change the subject. By definitions, Jim says Terse is
like
a song, you say otherwise. Prove it by LAW, which is the subject here.
Jim
has proven his point more than once.

Quote:
> Who would argue that the
> relationship between two successive integral numbers is the kind of pattern
> that can be copyrighted and withheld from mathematicians and scientists?

A song on a CD is digital. Same thing. You try to change the discussion
from the IDEA of something, into the material it is written on.

Quote:
> And yet jim would have us believe that the rules which govern the way that
> the symbols of terse are put together are copyrightable in the same way
> a song is copyrightable.

Once again, prove otherwise.

Quote:
> Notice- a song is a SPECIFIC combination of
> notes that were put together according to the rules of songwriting.  Terse
> then is more like the rules that guide the writing than it is a specific
> combination of notes that make up a song.  For this reason I believe the
> more accurate analogy is that terse is the notes, programs written in
> terse are the song.  Jim's dance theme is wishful thinking.

Jim doesn't limit his interpretation of Terse just to songs. He applies
them also to books, movies, etc. Your disection of ONE of his examples
just simply proves that your are on thin ice, and tries to find solid
ground.

Quote:
> I think jim is too blinded by his money seeking to look through anything
> but tinted glasses: so I think what we should do is simply let him have
> what he can get.  

You are incredibly naive in your view of the world. If you really belive
what you are saying, then you don't know Jim. If you don't know Jim,
then
stop these pathetic personal attacks. They are nothing more than
childish.

Quote:
> Terse really isn't that great for mainstream programming...
> jim's absence of watching how people program in favor of unwavering over
> the years has seen to that.  

He never claimed Terse for being something the mainstream programmer
needed.
It is a tool for assembler programmers, or those who wants to put a
little
spark into their code. Hell, you can even put it into Visual Basic if
you
really wants to.

Quote:
> But meanwhile I recommend that those of us
> who might be swayed to use terse for one simplistic project or another
> simply abstain and use something else.  Simply don't promote it any further
> than it has been and let jim's greed make it a still birth rather than
> letting it grow into something that could be useful.

Don't take Davids words for this, as his views are polluted by personal
opinions. Base the product on what it is, not by some guy telling you
that the creator of it is "no good".

This is a truly lame attack on Jim, David.

Quote:
> Sure we could fight him; and depending on who snowed the judge the best
> (e.g. who's lawyer is better) the judge might give it to him.  But why bother
> when we can just let it die off?

Just like you. Why bother?

Not really any kind regards at all,

Alexander

--
________________________________________________________

  Life is not a mystery to solve, but a puzzle to play
________________________________________________________


   work: +47 22 20 98 70     priv: +47 22 67 07 79
       Herslebsgt. 30 b, 0561, Oslo, Norway



Fri, 27 Aug 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 boycotting terse


Quote:
>I'm kind of peeved... for one thing I said several times what I thought
>the problems with terse are and then jim came along and said he couldn't
>see any problems with terse and asked what I thought the problems with
>terse are.  I don't like being treated in this fashion... I assume all
>it means is Jim isn't interested in what other people think, he just wants
>money for his idea.

I disagree. Jim is right there helping folks ALL the time whether it be
regarding TERSE or not regarding TERSE.

Quote:
>bounding qualities of the possible relationships.  But who would
>argue that the principles that are used to combine notes into chords
>are themselves a song that can be copyrighted?  Who would argue that the
>relationship between two successive integral numbers is the kind of pattern
>that can be copyrighted and withheld from mathematicians and scientists?

I disagree. TERSE *IS* the equivalent to a song - a combination of chords
and notes, etc. that make up the whole. I program and play guitar and can
easily see the equate. The elements he used to create TERSE would be the
notes, chords, etc. the whole program equals the song.

Quote:
>who might be swayed to use terse for one simplistic project or another
>simply abstain and use something else.  Simply don't promote it any further
>than it has been and let jim's greed make it a still birth rather than
>letting it grow into something that could be useful.

You can make your own choice, we can make ours. Jim Neil is NOT a large
software conglomerate, just a guy that wrote a program, had it ripped off
and cloned via imm{*filter*}deception and is fighting for what's his.

I agree with thsoe that say - Just let those in opposition write their own
symbolic lanaguage. I have found many others that have done so - Moonrock
BASIC, BASM286, Micro C - all output MASM/TASM compatible source.

Ep
Ed Parry - Southern California, USA

Unauthorized amphibians will be toad away.



Fri, 27 Aug 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 boycotting terse



Quote:
> Jim has quoted laws to back up his statements. You havn't quoted
> ANYTHING!
> I damn well challenge you to quote the laws of giving computer software
> a _different_ treatment than a movie, a book, a song, etc, etc.

When did the TERSE language become a piece of computer software? Last time
I looked it was a *language*; the TERSE compiler is the software.

[rest snipped]

--
jfpoole -- { Remember people; details! }
http://www.undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca/~jfpoole



Fri, 27 Aug 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 boycotting terse

: Whoah!,
:

: > I'm kind of peeved... for one thing I said several times what I thought
: > the problems with terse are and then jim came along and said he couldn't
: > see any problems with terse and asked what I thought the problems with
: > terse are.  I don't like being treated in this fashion...
:
: I doubt you have been treated in this manner. Jim is EXCELENT is
: support of his customers and others. He probably wanted proof of
: Terse giving problems, and you failed to provide him with it.
: Then what can he do? Guess?

No, terse does not have any problems I am aware of... it performs to spec
AFAIK.  I just got upset becuase I sat down and said there are a couple of
things that aren't too hard to do that would make it useable for me.
For example I write HUGE programs... 10000 lines is not uncommon even
in assembly.  Now my TERSE development cycle is:

1) type in terse code
2) run terse compiler
3) run assembler
4) look at errors
5) try to find the correlation between the error in the assembly program
and the terse program
6) fix the error
7) start over

This is fine for small projects, and when I tested terse out initially I
was very impressed.  But, the second I started on one of my larger programs
and started getting *tons* of syntax errors step 5 of the above just became
too much trouble; so I abandoned terse.  I respect the author's right
not to change things... but that one thing that could be changed makes
the difference between whether I use the program or not.  And I am a little
bit upset at jim's unwillingness to change even a little combined with his
unwillingness to let others change it for him.  One day I felt like sitting
down and writing a new version and GIVING it to him just so terse would
be useable for me... but then I read some of his messages and just got
turned off on the whole thing.

:
: > I assume all
: > it means is Jim isn't interested in what other people think, he just wants
: > money for his idea.
:
: Now, THIS IS A LOAD OF CRAP!  Jim actually VALUES what people think and
: say. We now have gone from discussion too personal attack and abuse.
: Shame on you for being such a coward! What is your problem? If it is the
: fact that you both disagree with eachother, then fine. Don't inflict
: others with your lies. It is a matter between the two of you.

Well... the reason I said what I said is that I came out and said what
my problem with terse was several times.  Jim didn't seem to notice...
in fact in response to one of my messages he even said terse was perfect
and then asked me what I would have him change?  And this was AFTER
I had already said what my problem was...  thath's when I threw in the
towl.

:
: > Which is becoming my general feeling about jim... he doesn't care as long
: > as he gets money.  For example he doesn't seem to care that his analogies
: > are all screwy.. he says over and over that terse is like a song that you
: > dance to.  But terse isn't a song, it is a collection of notes that
: > can be used to create a song...
:
: Jim has quoted laws to back up his statements. You havn't quoted
: ANYTHING!
: I damn well challenge you to quote the laws of giving computer software
: a _different_ treatment than a movie, a book, a song, etc, etc.

I have, several times quoted the issues.  In fact I see I did in the paragraph
above:  you seem to have the same problem as jim in that you can't read
what I write the first time and have to ask me what I said.  Here we go again:  terse
is a method, a set of rules by which you can produce meaningful dialogs
in this case with a computer.  Now it may be that the terse COMPILER is
a specific song written according to the rules of terse... but the terse
COMPILER is not itself TERSE.  Would you have me say that since I know the
relationship between integer numbers, that is add one and you get the
next... would you say that is grounds for me to OWN integer numbers and
require you to pay me a fee before I let you use them?  This may
sound trivial to yoi7u... but at some point there was someone just like
jim who made up the number system.  What if he had claimed ownership?
What would be the impact on technology and science if his heirs could
charge a fee to anyone who wrote a mathematical equation simply because
they used numbers?

And musical notes?  They aren't a SONG, they are the components with which
you WRITE a song.  if they were a song someone could own them... and the
results would be disastrous in that noone else could write music without
paying the piper.  This would definitiely cut down on the amount of music
being written.

:
: Put up, or shut up, please.

If you don't want to listen but want to go on blindly with what you think
that is your business, not mine.

:
: > if terse were a song it would have a
: > single definite pattern and that pattern would be playing in the background
: > while you work.  Now I agree there IS a pattern to terse... but as jim
: > has pointed out himself it is the same kind of pattern that there is to
: > real numbers, the same kind of pattern that there is between notes that
: > can be used to make a song.  That is, there are rules which describe the
: > bounding qualities of the possible relationships.  But who would
: > argue that the principles that are used to combine notes into chords
: > are themselves a song that can be copyrighted?  
:
: You're trying to change the subject. By definitions, Jim says Terse is
: like
: a song, you say otherwise. Prove it by LAW, which is the subject here.
: Jim
: has proven his point more than once.

Ok, who owns the symbols jim used in terse?  But more to the point...
we haven't decided ANYTHING by law here.  This whole thing is an argument
of opinions- jim's opinion is that his terse is analogous to a song
so he owns it- my opinion is that his terse is not analogous to a song but
is rather analogous to the rules used to make a song: with the implication
that jim can NOT own it.  NEither of us has proved a darn thing; we have
just stated our opinions and are trying to get others to agree with us-

But recognize what you have just said- by definition Jim says terse is like
a song.  BY DEFINITION- it is the definition I quibble with.  If jim's
definition is correct then clearly the laws he brings into play support his
side.  But what if jim's definition is NOT correct?  This is what I
question- you just accept that jim is infallible and that his definition is
correct whereas I think jim is fallible and that his definition is incorrect.
The laws mean NOTHING until this fundamental argument is settled- is
terse like a song or is terse not like a song.  Ultimately this argument
will have to be settled in a courtroom if anyone challenges jim, but alas
that is ridiculous because the people who will be arguing the point
will have no idea of what the words they say mean... they'll just be arguing
and trying to win.  So the whole thing is nothing but a political battle
where jim tries to keep hold of what he's got and not allow for change,
and people who like what jim has done but want to see it bettered try
not to get completely shut out by a court system that probably has no
idea what the real issues are.  This is why I think we should boycott
terse- anything that comes to a legal battle which is essentailly a battle
for who gets to be top of the hill just isn't worth it.

Another issue here is that jim's terse is basically the same thing as
any high-level language- the only difference is that the correspondence
to
assembly is much greater.  So is terse really that innovative?  And
also given the level of correspondence with assembly language, if you
are going to argue that TERSE is a song you have to argue that ASSEMBLY
is a song- so jim took something from the public domain, changed the
syntax, and now seeks to own it.

Note that I am NOT saying I don't want jim to have money from his product,
or even that I would support someone else that came out with a similar
product if jim was a little more flexible.  What I AM saying is that I
think the only place this is going is a bad place... when people can
monoplize ideas just because they thought them up we won't get any better
of a situation than if AT&T still monopolized the entire telephone industry.
I WILL NOT support this kind of monopolization.
: > Who would argue that the
: > relationship between two successive integral numbers is the kind of pattern
: > that can be copyrighted and withheld from mathematicians and scientists?
:
: A song on a CD is digital. Same thing. You try to change the discussion
: from the IDEA of something, into the material it is written on.

No it is YOU who are changing the discussion.  I can write the basic rules
by which songs are written into a text file and put them on a CD, they
would be digital too.  I can write a description of musical notes in terms
of harmonic frequencies into a text file and put them on a CD, they would
be digital too.  I can put the relationship between integers down in
a text file and put them on a CD, they would be digital too.  I can put
the rules by which terse programs are written into a text file and put
them on a CD too, and they would be digital.  Now of those three things,
why are the rules of terse to be treated differently than the rules of
songwriting or the rules that govern integers?  Why can jim 'own' the
rules that govern terse but I can't own' the rules that govern integer numbers?
Again I will say a program written in terse is like a song because it
uses specific instances of the rules to make a totally repeateable pattern...
but again the rules of terse themselves allow for an infinite number of
repeatable patterns, by jim's own admission.  Again, a song has
a definitely repeatable pattern, but the collection of 'all songs' is
infinite because the rules allow for infinite variation.  ARe you really
going to blindly ...

read more »



Sat, 28 Aug 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 boycotting terse



:
: > Jim has quoted laws to back up his statements. You havn't quoted
: > ANYTHING!
: > I damn well challenge you to quote the laws of giving computer software
: > a _different_ treatment than a movie, a book, a song, etc, etc.
:
: When did the TERSE language become a piece of computer software? Last time
: I looked it was a *language*; the TERSE compiler is the software.

That is EXACTLY my point...

David
:
: [rest snipped]
:
: --
: jfpoole -- { Remember people; details! }
: http://www.undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca/~jfpoole
:
:



Sat, 28 Aug 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 boycotting terse


Quote:

>                                   TERSE is a POSITIVE thing.  I've
>invested a great deal of my life in this product.  Perhaps I'm stupid
>attempting to improve the lot of my fellow programmers.  I'm sure I
>could have made more money by writing some piece of boring business
>application, but instead I went for the "greater good".

The "greater good" being the equivalent to "the most money in Jim Neil's
pocket"  If you want to improve the lot of your fellow programmers GPL it
and release it free with source code.  Given you haven't improved it in
10 years and it went unreleased for most of that time, I'd doubt that
you've invested a great deal of your life in it.  Even now I'd be really
astonished if you can make a living off of TERSE.

Quote:
> I felt I
>could help the world more by helping programmers make their programs
>better than I ever could by writing a single application.  Who out
>there will ever attempt to help you all if they think there is no
>way to get re-paid for their efforts?  Answer: no one.

The LPF would disagree with you.  Why is money the only way you'd consider
"getting paid?"  If you sell TERSE for the good of humanity, wouldn't the
impovement in available software alone be worth it?  In fact a lot of the
people on this news group ENJOY being helpful.  Isn't that what this
news group is about?  No one here gets paid to be helpful.

Quote:
>   It is always simple to knock the efforts of ANYONE who actually
>DOES something while the rest of the world sits by and cuts it down.
>Very few get up off their butts and actually MAKE something REAL.

Technology progresses by miniscule jumps, not by incredible leaps.
And TERSE is a miniscule jump (if that).  If you want to withhold it
from the world, that's fine.  Someone will come up with something
incrementally better.  And that someone won't be you because apparently
TERSE is at the pinnicle of perfection (snicker).

Quote:
>                       Trying to make an honest dollar is damm hard
>work.

Given your opinions on copyright law, it's not an honest dollar you're
trying to make.

--
Eric Korpela                        |  An object at rest can never be

<a href="http://www.cs.indiana.edu/finger/mofo.ssl.berkeley.edu/korpela/w">
Click here for more info.</a>



Sat, 28 Aug 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 boycotting terse


Quote:

>   TERSE is EXACTLY like a song.

What aspect of "song" do you mean to use as analogy?  Do you mean
each performance or recording of one?  Or a specific arrangement
as sheet music?  Or something else?

I note that the Copyright Act, 17 U.S.C. 101-801 (1988), treats
sound recordings differently from all other works.  See 17 U.S.C.
115 (1988) for more details.  Software, by definition, cannot
have the same legal treatment as such recordings.  Perhaps you
mean another aspect by saying, "...like a song?"

Jon



Sun, 29 Aug 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 boycotting terse

George C. Lindauer wrote (300+ lines!):

- alot of stuff snipped for brevity-

Quote:

>: > I'm kind of peeved... for one thing I said several times what I thought
>: > the problems with terse are and then jim came along and said he couldn't
>: > see any problems with terse and asked what I thought the problems with
>: > terse are.  I don't like being treated in this fashion...

David replied:

Quote:
>: I doubt you have been treated in this manner. Jim is EXCELENT is
>: support of his customers and others. He probably wanted proof of
>: Terse giving problems, and you failed to provide him with it.
>: Then what can he do? Guess?

George replied:

Quote:
>No, terse does not have any problems I am aware of... it performs to spec
>AFAIK.  I just got upset becuase I sat down and said there are a couple of
>things that aren't too hard to do that would make it useable for me.
>For example I write HUGE programs... 10000 lines is not uncommon even
>in assembly.  Now my TERSE development cycle is:

Hi GCL!

1) Umm, this is direct conflict to what you stated above. First you say Jim
did not respond to problems that you claimed were in TERSE, then you claim
that TERSE doe snto ahve any problems that you are ware of?

I also did a bit of looking, and found that Jim Neil did respond to you on
March 8th:

Jim:

Quote:
>   Sorry if you are having problems locating the syntax errors in your
>TERSE code.  Do you have a copy of A2T?  It is a program that converts
>the line numbers in the assembler's error messages to the original
>TERSE line numbers.  If you need the A2T program, I'll be happy to
>send you a copy.  I have also just finished version 2.20 of the TERSE
>compiler and an planing to send out FREE updates to ALL my customers
>(I don't believe in making money from updates).  It has a bug "fix" in
>it (very rare, if it was going to bother you, you would have already
>known about it) and I've expanded the operand syntax to make using
>TERSE with TASM in IDEAL mode and with NASM trivial.  TERSE version
>2.20 will accept operands of the form [var+bx+si].  If you (or any
>other of my customers) would like a copy before I get a chance to send
>out the official notification, just send me an eMail and I'll be happy
>to send you a copy.
>   Again, thanks for saying nice things about TERSE.  I hope that A2T
>will help you locate your syntax errors.

Looks to me that he is supporting TERSE pretty good here.

Also, as I mentioned, do a Dejanews author search on him and you'll see ALOT
of posts/replies trying to help the x86 programmer in general, not just
those TERSE registered.

I also noticed that you like to post and stir the pot up a bit yourself when
it comes to the newsgroups. Is this just another attempt at that?

Ep

Ed Parry - Southern California, USA

Unauthorized amphibians will be toad away.



Sun, 29 Aug 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 boycotting terse


Quote:

>    TERSE is EXACTLY like a song.

>    1. A song is the expression of a specific idea,
>    2. A song is written and performed and recorded (on tape, CD, etc).
>    3. Songs are danced to.
>    4. You can dance to it, you can't re-record it, re-arange it, etc.
>    5. If you wish to publicly perform your dance, you pay the author.
>    6. You can create many different dances to the song.
>    7. Songs evoke different dances from different people.
>    8. The song's copyright doesn't limit it's usefulness
>    9. If you don't like the song, don't dance to it.

>    1. TERSE is the expression of a specific idea.
>    2. TERSE was created and implemented and recorded (on diskette).
>    3. TERSE is used for writting programs.
>    4. You can write in it, you can't re-write it, enhance it, etc.
>    5. If you want to write programs in TERSE, you pay the author.
>    6. You can write many different programs in TERSE.
>    7. TERSE evokes different programs from different people.
>    8. TERSE's copyright doesn't limit it's usefulness.
>    9. If you don't like TERSE, don't write programs in it.

No, this is not accurate.

1. The TERSE COMPILER is the expression of a specific idea.
2. The TERSE COMPILER was created and implemented and recorded
   (on diskette).
3. The TERSE COMPILER is used for writing programs.
4. You can write in it [THE TERSE COMPILER], you can't re-write it,
   enhance it, etc.
5. If you want to write programs using The TERSE COMPILER, you pay
   the author.
6. You can write many different programs using the TERSE COMPILER.
7. The TERSE COMPILER evokes different programs from different people.
8. The TERSE COMPILER's copyright doesn't limit it's usefulness.
9. If you don't like the TERSE COMPILER, don't write programs in it.

No one argues that you have a copyright of the TERSE compiler. The
TERSE language, however, is free and open for anybody to use to their
heart's content.

Just as the Well-Tempered Harmonic Scale is free to everyone to
write songs in.

--
==========================================================================

| "Judge all, and be prepared to be judged by all."                      |
==========================================================================



Sun, 29 Aug 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 boycotting terse


   >Newsgroups: comp.lang.asm.x86

   >TERSE is EXACTLY like a song.

   Incorrect, sir.

   It is TERSE.EXE (or TERSE.COM) that is exactly like a song.

   Until you admit it, I will continue to respond to any invalid and dangerous
information you post publically.

   I am offended by you, sir.


--: Greed causes 50% of the evil in the world.

Net-Tamer V 1.08 - Test Drive



Sun, 29 Aug 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 boycotting terse

Quote:

> Looks to me that he is supporting TERSE pretty good here.

> Also, as I mentioned, do a Dejanews author search on him and you'll see ALOT
> of posts/replies trying to help the x86 programmer in general, not just
> those TERSE registered.

so does Tenie... and so does George though not as much.

Jim never release any free software... is this helping x86 programmer?

you can find nearly a MEG of good x86 code by Tenie... all free, too,
i consider this to help x86 programmer, what has Jim done?  there is no
free published code by Jim, except what he post in newsgroups

Quote:
> I also noticed that you like to post and stir the pot up a bit yourself when
> it comes to the newsgroups. Is this just another attempt at that?

uh... so you praise Jim for posting and fault George for posting???

-- Yuri S.



Sun, 29 Aug 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 boycotting terse

Hi, Yuri,

Quote:

> > Also, as I mentioned, do a Dejanews author search on him and you'll see ALOT
> > of posts/replies trying to help the x86 programmer in general, not just
> > those TERSE registered.

> so does Tenie... and so does George though not as much.

So does most of us ... what is your point? That Tenie is innocent by
posting helpful stuff to the usenet? Or George?

Quote:
> Jim never release any free software... is this helping x86 programmer?

What an utter stupid statement. I havn't posted any free software to
the world ... now, does that make not able to help people over the
Internet?
Please, the issue is not how much free software you give away, but
HELPING at all.

(Besides, who knows what type of programming Jim does? If he's into
compilers
and big projects and such, one cannot release this if you want to make a
living as well. You seem to judge people by what they give you for free.
Wierd.)

Quote:
> you can find nearly a MEG of good x86 code by Tenie... all free, too,
> i consider this to help x86 programmer, what has Jim done?  there is no
> free published code by Jim, except what he post in newsgroups

If that code is helpful to you, then fine. Jim has helped me (and I have
never bought any Terse from him, either) optimizing critical code in my
high-risk software, all for free. I find this A LOT MORE valuable than
ANY of Tenies free software.

Now, then, why is Tenie a better helper than Jim?

Quote:
> > I also noticed that you like to post and stir the pot up a bit yourself when
> > it comes to the newsgroups. Is this just another attempt at that?
> uh... so you praise Jim for posting and fault George for posting???

Don't be stupid. There is a difference between posting good and posting
bad.

Alexander

--
________________________________________________________

  Life is not a mystery to solve, but a puzzle to play
________________________________________________________


   work: +47 22 20 98 70     priv: +47 22 67 07 79
       Herslebsgt. 30 b, 0561, Oslo, Norway



Mon, 30 Aug 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 
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