Assembler IDE 
Author Message
 Assembler IDE

Hi,

Just wanted to let folks know that you can check out VASM - Visual Assembler
IDE at http://www.*-*-*.com/ . Also, join the message board!

--
Have Fun,
Thomas Jaeger

http://www.*-*-*.com/



Thu, 21 Aug 2003 02:09:38 GMT  
 Assembler IDE

Quote:

> Hi,

> Just wanted to let folks know that you can check out VASM - Visual
Assembler
> IDE at http://www.vasm.org. Also, join the message board!

> http://www.czar.com/vasm - FREE Visual Assembler IDE for Win32

Very good, Thomas...I like the VASM idea and it's looking good so far...my
only comment is releasing something this early on in development, as it's
basically just a text editor so far (which is obviously fundamental
functionality but nothing extra from the rest of the text editor crowd to
wet one's appetite enough ;)...

Not that it matters much but I'd suggest that you don't just release VASM
every time you add just one new feature (v0.0321, v0.0322, v0.0323, etc. ;)
or whatever because if it's too sparse on the functionality this could put
people off the effort of a download (release in higher version "steps", if
you get me ;)...

Plus, if you keep posting "just added new text cut and paste feature" here
all the time and everyone has to go re-download it every couple of days or
so, then that could annoy some of your potential users severely and put them
off bothering...

Plus, constant re-posting and re-releasing of each minor version change
would also just come across as desparate publicity, which would be a stupid
thing to convey to people when this isn't true at all...

This is not meant as a negative comment in the slightest...I really love
this VASM idea...I just noticed that you've released this _very_ early in
development and wanted to make sure that you didn't lose any potential users
by being a bit too eager to publicise it...although, of course, maybe you
weren't going to release it in such small steps as I'm suggesting and there
isn't going to be a problem here at all (but the sparseness of this version
gives that impression) but I thought I'd mention it, just in case...because
I'd hate to see a good thing like VASM get shunned just because you were a
bit eager to make it public (I mean, you're gonna have a bit of a battle
getting a lot of hardened assembly programmers interested by the "visual"
idea and you don't want to make things worse before it's even finished, do
you? ;)

Keep up the good work!! :)

Beth :)



Fri, 22 Aug 2003 04:07:20 GMT  
 Assembler IDE


Quote:
> Hi,

> Just wanted to let folks know that you can check out VASM - Visual
Assembler
> IDE at http://www.vasm.org. Also, join the message board!

> --
> Have Fun,
> Thomas Jaeger

> http://www.czar.com/vasm - FREE Visual Assembler IDE for Win32

I would strongly suggest that you work together with Shawn Bullock
http://visualassembler.freeservers.com
since his project is currently active.
The more hands you have working on a huge project like this one, the better.
Otherwise, I worry that your effort will meet the same fate (lack of
attention
span) as all the other attempts.  If would even try to contact the authors
of
the other attempts and see if they're willing contribute.
Randy Hyde


Sat, 23 Aug 2003 00:47:34 GMT  
 Assembler IDE
Hi Randy,

Actually, we did communicate in the beginning.  We had similar interests.
In fact, there is a win32 assembly message board that we had a thread not
too long ago about this.  The problem with 10 different "Visual Assembler"
IDE's (Everyone wants their own) is that you have 10 different visions and
only parts of it are uniform.  In communicating with each author of various
IDE's, one thing became painfully obvious to all of us (and hence, a
discussion thread) -- Everyone wants to do their own thing, which differs
one from another.  Some people want to write their IDE in assembly, others
in VB, yet others in Delphi.  Once you have a uniformity of language/syntax,
then you have stuff like some people want RAD, others don't care.  Some want
intellisense(r) like features, others don't.  Some people want to implement
intelllisense(r) differently.  I want my IDE to be cross platform, for Linux
and Windows (and hopefully Windows Risc and OS 9/X).  Others don't care.
Some people are even writing their Assembly IDE in Assembly, with direct
Assembly COM support... ouch... he's doing a good job, too.

I think the IDE I'm working on has way too many goals that other people have
no interest in supporting, such as multiple syntaxes/lanuages.  I do have my
work cutout, everything I accomplish for assembly, I have to provide a way
to let other people support it, say, if they decide to write a C++
environment for it, for Borland C++ or something.

The only way people will unify all of our many 20 IDE's is to make some
compromise on what our ideals are, unfortunately, it's because of our ideals
(we need features that others are missing) that is creating the diversity in
the first place.  What will be insteresting is to see which one's survive
the "IDE Wars" and gets the greatest support 3 years from now.  The bottom
line, is not to write features that you think people want, put in the
features you know people need, then you'll be supported.

Anyway, while communicating, we all found out that since no one wants to
agree on anything, no one is uniting. *Sigh*.  I would have contributed and
not set out to write my own if people didn't immediately tell me they have
no interest in many of my ideals for an Assembly IDE.

_Shawn


Quote:



> > Hi,

> > Just wanted to let folks know that you can check out VASM - Visual
> Assembler
> > IDE at http://www.vasm.org. Also, join the message board!

> > --
> > Have Fun,
> > Thomas Jaeger

> > http://www.czar.com/vasm - FREE Visual Assembler IDE for Win32

> I would strongly suggest that you work together with Shawn Bullock
> http://visualassembler.freeservers.com
> since his project is currently active.
> The more hands you have working on a huge project like this one, the
better.
> Otherwise, I worry that your effort will meet the same fate (lack of
> attention
> span) as all the other attempts.  If would even try to contact the authors
> of
> the other attempts and see if they're willing contribute.
> Randy Hyde



Sun, 24 Aug 2003 00:26:09 GMT  
 Assembler IDE
A shame that there's such discord on this because a united effort is more
likely to succeed than 20 individual ones...actually, make that 21, because
who am I to talk? The "BethTool" is also an assembly IDE (although, my scope
is much wider than just that...and the emphasis is on "code awareness" to
simplify development and reduce bugs significantly (at least, that's the
basic theory) but it needs to incorporate an IDE interface to help fulfill
that idea...rather than the idea being the IDE itself :)...

I can see the problem here because we'd have a hard time just merging our
two efforts together, that doing so with 20 or so radically different
approaches would be insanely hard to do...especially as with my tool, then
the IDE is just a means and not the end, so I can't really comprimise on the
additional features because this would render my basic BethTool development
ideas null and void (or should that be "NULL && void *"...lol ;)...

Quote:
> I think the IDE I'm working on has way too many goals that other people
have
> no interest in supporting, such as multiple syntaxes/lanuages.

This, though, sounds like a commonality between us...although, you might not
like my "overkill" approach of a sparse flexible "meta-language"...where you
basically have just a very, very simple underlying meta-language (a sort of
compilable BNF...FORTH-like in the vocabulary idea...C-like operators...it's
a bit of a mish-mash of lots of ideas), that you can compose to
higher-levels...this basically makes the language itself a part of your
project...sounds like overkill, huh? lol :) but an incredibly useful base
for the rest of the BethTool features...the IDE ideas are also similarly
unique from most others...

Quote:
> What will be insteresting is to see which one's survive the "IDE Wars"
> and gets the greatest support 3 years from now.

Yup; They say never to fight a war on more than one front...I know it's a
massive risk, for sure, but that's the way I'm going...if I pull it off,
then there's basically nothing that's close to what I provide...my father
used to have this jokey phrase he used to say for fun but I'm actually going
to try it out because I think it has merit: "If you can't beat them at their
own game, then change the rules of the game." hehehe ;)

Quote:
> The bottom line, is not to write features that you think people want, put
> in the features you know people need, then you'll be supported.

What about features that people need...just they don't know that they need
them yet because they've never really had those features before?
Umm...maybe? lol ;)

I'd also love to offer to help out with other projects like this one but I
have too much on my plate with my own project (anyway, I wonder how much
people would appreciate _my_ sort of help...lol ;)...I seriously considered,
at one point, offering to help with NASM when they asked for volunteers but
I wouldn't be able to contribute all that much time to something like that
(even if we assume they'd want _my_ brand of help ;)...lol ;)

Beth :)



Sun, 24 Aug 2003 01:20:30 GMT  
 Assembler IDE
Sorry for getting back so late. I don't check the newsgroups as often as I
should.

You're right. I should not announce minor updates, of course. I will not
anounce any further news until VASM is at least in full beta test stage and
that assembler programmers can really benefit from it.

But, I do think that it does not hurt to release new versions on the home
page as long as I describe what has changed from the previous version. Over
the years, I kinda like the "extreme programming"
(http://www.extremeprogramming.org/)  concept no matter what language is
being used. The feedback is very helpful.

The trick to convince old-time assembler coders as well as brand new
beginners to use VASM is to offer some really helpful features and at the
same time not limit the user in any way.

--
Have Fun,
Thomas Jaeger

http://www.vasm.org - FREE Visual Assembler IDE for Win32


Quote:

> > Hi,

> > Just wanted to let folks know that you can check out VASM - Visual
> Assembler
> > IDE at http://www.vasm.org. Also, join the message board!

> > http://www.czar.com/vasm - FREE Visual Assembler IDE for Win32

> Very good, Thomas...I like the VASM idea and it's looking good so far...my
> only comment is releasing something this early on in development, as it's
> basically just a text editor so far (which is obviously fundamental
> functionality but nothing extra from the rest of the text editor crowd to
> wet one's appetite enough ;)...

> Not that it matters much but I'd suggest that you don't just release VASM
> every time you add just one new feature (v0.0321, v0.0322, v0.0323, etc.
;)
> or whatever because if it's too sparse on the functionality this could put
> people off the effort of a download (release in higher version "steps", if
> you get me ;)...

> Plus, if you keep posting "just added new text cut and paste feature" here
> all the time and everyone has to go re-download it every couple of days or
> so, then that could annoy some of your potential users severely and put
them
> off bothering...

> Plus, constant re-posting and re-releasing of each minor version change
> would also just come across as desparate publicity, which would be a
stupid
> thing to convey to people when this isn't true at all...

> This is not meant as a negative comment in the slightest...I really love
> this VASM idea...I just noticed that you've released this _very_ early in
> development and wanted to make sure that you didn't lose any potential
users
> by being a bit too eager to publicise it...although, of course, maybe you
> weren't going to release it in such small steps as I'm suggesting and
there
> isn't going to be a problem here at all (but the sparseness of this
version
> gives that impression) but I thought I'd mention it, just in
case...because
> I'd hate to see a good thing like VASM get shunned just because you were a
> bit eager to make it public (I mean, you're gonna have a bit of a battle
> getting a lot of hardened assembly programmers interested by the "visual"
> idea and you don't want to make things worse before it's even finished, do
> you? ;)

> Keep up the good work!! :)

> Beth :)



Sun, 31 Aug 2003 12:30:56 GMT  
 Assembler IDE
Randy,

I would agree 100% if people could agree and make compromises. We did have
some heated discussions on Iczelion's message board but we could not even
agree on what file format to use for the Project settings (INI vs XML etc.).

There was an attempt several years ago (I believe "Visual Assembler") that
was done in Borland C++ Builder but had died. I'm not sure why it died.
Whatever the reasons, if someone is really determined to stick with for a
long time like several years and listen to users feedback and respond
accordingly, then you'll be able to see a great product (commercial or
freeware). So far, I have not seen this in the assembler scene (other than
the MASM and TASM products).

I want to learn more assembler. Specifically, I want to learn more Win32
assembler. On the other hand, I'm spoiled. I'm spoiled with Delphi. Delphi
has so many great features it's VERY hard to step back when trying to learn
something new. Borland put 15 years into the Delphi IDE. Why not learn from
the master? True, there are some things Borland needs to work on, but,
overall, the Delphi IDE beats any other one I've seen. VASM will have some
things that the current Delphi 5 IDE does not have (even the Delphi 6 IDE).
That's because I want to help the assembler coding process as well the
entire management of assembler projects. In short, I honestly think that the
Delphi IDE has an ingenious design (VCL). It's now available on Linux with
Delphi for Linux (Kylix). The Delphi IDE is truly a two-way IDE meaning that
nothing is stoping the pro from using it but only gain productivity. In
addition, beginners are being helped in many ways.

My goal is to come as close as I can to the Delphi IDE for assembler and
maybe even beat it (the de{*filter*} one of the biggest hurdles).

--
Have Fun,
Thomas Jaeger

http://www.*-*-*.com/ - FREE Visual Assembler IDE for Win32

Quote:



> > Hi,

> > Just wanted to let folks know that you can check out VASM - Visual
> Assembler
> > IDE at http://www.*-*-*.com/ . Also, join the message board!

> > --
> > Have Fun,
> > Thomas Jaeger

> > http://www.*-*-*.com/

> I would strongly suggest that you work together with Shawn Bullock
> http://www.*-*-*.com/
> since his project is currently active.
> The more hands you have working on a huge project like this one, the
better.
> Otherwise, I worry that your effort will meet the same fate (lack of
> attention
> span) as all the other attempts.  If would even try to contact the authors
> of
> the other attempts and see if they're willing contribute.
> Randy Hyde



Sun, 31 Aug 2003 12:47:23 GMT  
 Assembler IDE
Shawn,

In a way, it would be sad if after all these assembler IDE attempts none
would survive because everybody did there own thing. But, I don't think this
is going to happen.

When the original assembler IDE project started several years ago, it was
the only one around. Now, we have 10 or more springing up. Why? Obviously,
some feel that there is a need for it and is long overdue. Some are doing it
to proof to themselves that they can do it and stick with until it version
1.0 is out matured from the beta tests. At least, that is my intention, not
to give up.

This time, I think, there is a much better chance that one or two will
survive and reviving the assembler language to new possibilities. How can I
argue with a Project Manager that assembler could be a solution when I can't
even show him a decent IDE and how productive one can be? All the great
arguments that Randall points out on his webpage (thanks Randall) that
assembler could be a solution, are not really helping in pushing assembler
without people to "see" that one can do it. Business people are funny bunch.
They make decisions on buzzwords and "looks" or listen to some "expert" and
have them smuse the latest buzzwords.

Honestly, and I think you will agree on this, assembler can really benefit
if an IDE can show the power of assembler. That's what people thought of
Delphi in the beginning (1995). "Are you nuts? Pascal? You must be crazy."
Some of it's  greatest strengths are the VCL and IDE of Delphi. I know this
can be done for assembler. I'm 100% certain.

I think it's a good thing that we have 10 or more IDE projects going. This
makes it even more attractive to use assembler. Only time will tell.

--
Have Fun,
Thomas Jaeger

http://www.vasm.org - FREE Visual Assembler IDE for Win32


Quote:
> Hi Randy,

> Actually, we did communicate in the beginning.  We had similar interests.
> In fact, there is a win32 assembly message board that we had a thread not
> too long ago about this.  The problem with 10 different "Visual Assembler"
> IDE's (Everyone wants their own) is that you have 10 different visions and
> only parts of it are uniform.  In communicating with each author of
various
> IDE's, one thing became painfully obvious to all of us (and hence, a
> discussion thread) -- Everyone wants to do their own thing, which differs
> one from another.  Some people want to write their IDE in assembly, others
> in VB, yet others in Delphi.  Once you have a uniformity of
language/syntax,
> then you have stuff like some people want RAD, others don't care.  Some
want
> intellisense(r) like features, others don't.  Some people want to
implement
> intelllisense(r) differently.  I want my IDE to be cross platform, for
Linux
> and Windows (and hopefully Windows Risc and OS 9/X).  Others don't care.
> Some people are even writing their Assembly IDE in Assembly, with direct
> Assembly COM support... ouch... he's doing a good job, too.

> I think the IDE I'm working on has way too many goals that other people
have
> no interest in supporting, such as multiple syntaxes/lanuages.  I do have
my
> work cutout, everything I accomplish for assembly, I have to provide a way
> to let other people support it, say, if they decide to write a C++
> environment for it, for Borland C++ or something.

> The only way people will unify all of our many 20 IDE's is to make some
> compromise on what our ideals are, unfortunately, it's because of our
ideals
> (we need features that others are missing) that is creating the diversity
in
> the first place.  What will be insteresting is to see which one's survive
> the "IDE Wars" and gets the greatest support 3 years from now.  The bottom
> line, is not to write features that you think people want, put in the
> features you know people need, then you'll be supported.

> Anyway, while communicating, we all found out that since no one wants to
> agree on anything, no one is uniting. *Sigh*.  I would have contributed
and
> not set out to write my own if people didn't immediately tell me they have
> no interest in many of my ideals for an Assembly IDE.

> _Shawn





> > > Hi,

> > > Just wanted to let folks know that you can check out VASM - Visual
> > Assembler
> > > IDE at http://www.vasm.org. Also, join the message board!

> > > --
> > > Have Fun,
> > > Thomas Jaeger

> > > http://www.czar.com/vasm - FREE Visual Assembler IDE for Win32

> > I would strongly suggest that you work together with Shawn Bullock
> > http://visualassembler.freeservers.com
> > since his project is currently active.
> > The more hands you have working on a huge project like this one, the
> better.
> > Otherwise, I worry that your effort will meet the same fate (lack of
> > attention
> > span) as all the other attempts.  If would even try to contact the
authors
> > of
> > the other attempts and see if they're willing contribute.
> > Randy Hyde



Sun, 31 Aug 2003 13:11:18 GMT  
 Assembler IDE
Beth,

That's my point about features users need. Until I've seen and used the
Delphi IDE, I didn't know that there were better ways to help a programmer
to be more productive. I'm spoiled. I want the same features for assembler.
Since there is so such as IDE, I must code one myself. I really love doing
it as well. I'm learning an awful lot of new stuff about the internals of
Delphi in addition to a lot of assembler.

To be honest, I don't think that an assembler IDE should be developed in
assembler. At least, not at the beginning. One of super strengths of a HLL
is the time to develop. I want VASM to be in beta by Summer and completed
for version 1.0 by Fall. Impossible to do in assembler (at least for me).
Leave the visual strengths to existing RAD tools such as Delphi until
assembler itself has a RAD tool that was done 100% in Assembler but with the
features of a Delphi IDE.

--
Have Fun,
Thomas Jaeger

http://www.vasm.org - FREE Visual Assembler IDE for Win32


Quote:
> A shame that there's such discord on this because a united effort is more
> likely to succeed than 20 individual ones...actually, make that 21,
because
> who am I to talk? The "BethTool" is also an assembly IDE (although, my
scope
> is much wider than just that...and the emphasis is on "code awareness" to
> simplify development and reduce bugs significantly (at least, that's the
> basic theory) but it needs to incorporate an IDE interface to help fulfill
> that idea...rather than the idea being the IDE itself :)...

> I can see the problem here because we'd have a hard time just merging our
> two efforts together, that doing so with 20 or so radically different
> approaches would be insanely hard to do...especially as with my tool, then
> the IDE is just a means and not the end, so I can't really comprimise on
the
> additional features because this would render my basic BethTool
development
> ideas null and void (or should that be "NULL && void *"...lol ;)...

> > I think the IDE I'm working on has way too many goals that other people
> have
> > no interest in supporting, such as multiple syntaxes/lanuages.

> This, though, sounds like a commonality between us...although, you might
not
> like my "overkill" approach of a sparse flexible "meta-language"...where
you
> basically have just a very, very simple underlying meta-language (a sort
of
> compilable BNF...FORTH-like in the vocabulary idea...C-like
operators...it's
> a bit of a mish-mash of lots of ideas), that you can compose to
> higher-levels...this basically makes the language itself a part of your
> project...sounds like overkill, huh? lol :) but an incredibly useful base
> for the rest of the BethTool features...the IDE ideas are also similarly
> unique from most others...

> > What will be insteresting is to see which one's survive the "IDE Wars"
> > and gets the greatest support 3 years from now.

> Yup; They say never to fight a war on more than one front...I know it's a
> massive risk, for sure, but that's the way I'm going...if I pull it off,
> then there's basically nothing that's close to what I provide...my father
> used to have this jokey phrase he used to say for fun but I'm actually
going
> to try it out because I think it has merit: "If you can't beat them at
their
> own game, then change the rules of the game." hehehe ;)

> > The bottom line, is not to write features that you think people want,
put
> > in the features you know people need, then you'll be supported.

> What about features that people need...just they don't know that they need
> them yet because they've never really had those features before?
> Umm...maybe? lol ;)

> I'd also love to offer to help out with other projects like this one but I
> have too much on my plate with my own project (anyway, I wonder how much
> people would appreciate _my_ sort of help...lol ;)...I seriously
considered,
> at one point, offering to help with NASM when they asked for volunteers
but
> I wouldn't be able to contribute all that much time to something like that
> (even if we assume they'd want _my_ brand of help ;)...lol ;)

> Beth :)



Sun, 31 Aug 2003 13:25:13 GMT  
 Assembler IDE

Quote:

> You're right. I should not announce minor updates, of course. I will not
> anounce any further news until VASM is at least in full beta test stage
and
> that assembler programmers can really benefit from it.

A minor upgrade notice probably carries more content that 75% of the
stuff that graces these pages.  I wouldn't have a problem at all making
announcements about minor upgrades herein.  After all, the material
*is* assembly oriented and it's not a commercial adverti{*filter*}t.
So I wouldn't worry about it.  If nothing else, a minor update announcement
keeps the product fresh in the minds of everyone and lets newcomers
to the newsgroup discover the product.

Just remember, if you don't promote the product "who will?"
While the promotion shouldn't be over gratuitous, you must be
persistent or it will get lost in the noise out here.
Randy Hyde



Mon, 01 Sep 2003 23:32:48 GMT  
 Assembler IDE

Quote:

> > You're right. I should not announce minor updates, of course. I will not
> > anounce any further news until VASM is at least in full beta test stage
> > and that assembler programmers can really benefit from it.

> A minor upgrade notice probably carries more content that 75% of the
> stuff that graces these pages.  I wouldn't have a problem at all making
> announcements about minor upgrades herein.  After all, the material
> *is* assembly oriented and it's not a commercial adverti{*filter*}t.
> So I wouldn't worry about it.  If nothing else, a minor update
announcement
> keeps the product fresh in the minds of everyone and lets newcomers
> to the newsgroup discover the product.

> Just remember, if you don't promote the product "who will?"
> While the promotion shouldn't be over gratuitous, you must be
> persistent or it will get lost in the noise out here.

Being the one who was advising against a constant stream of minor upgrade
notices, I'll explain my rationale...I agree totally with what you're
saying, Randy...100%...my point was not about being _too_ eager, in the
sense that you don't post update notifications of the type: "new version!
download now! changes: icons in the toolbar moved 2 pixels over to the left
to look a little better!"...BUT if you do have a real non-trivial update to
announce and release, then I'm 100% behind you...as I say, I'm just concern
because it's possible to over-saturate with advertising as much as it's
possible not to advertise enough...both are bad news and you need (as always
in this life) to strike a healthy balance...

It's a tricky balance...not enough and no-one knows about your product or
forgets about it...too much and you'll put people off because they'll be so
annoyed with you spamming that they'll refuse to oblige your product on
principle...this is a common mistake that's sometimes made (mostly on the
'net :) so I want to stress it, so you don't get the same problem...

<BETH DIGRESSION="YES">

For instance, I _voluntarily_ starting subscribing to a Email newsletter
thingy and was pleased with this idea to begin with...unfortunately, they
obviously are being ignored and rejected a lot by most people because they
_severely_ overdid it...they started spamming my account continuously with
90% junk...I was a _voluntary_ reader of their newsletter and would probably
have clicked on the odd advert in their newsletter, if it had looked
interesting and if they were selling some product or something, I might have
been interested (I quite like shopping usually...but they so overdid it,
they put even _me_ off the idea...lol ;)...

Unfortunately, they were "mighty dollar" thinkers and were so intent on
getting me to "spend, spend, spend!!" - spamming left, right and centre with
ads and other junk - that I "unvolunteered" myself...I really can't see many
people being pleased with the level of spam they were spewing into people's
accounts...it really was too much...

And I bet you that they sit in their office wondering why no-one's buying
anything and just decide to spam, spam and spam some more (thinking very
simplistically that "More ads = more buyers = more profit")...sorry, but
that's an example of being too eager...they had a _willing_ customer and,
basically, treated me like {*filter*}and didn't have two braincells to rub
together...so they lost a potential customer that way (almost certainly, a
_guaranteed_ customer has they not got so greedy and scared me off their
services)...and if that's how they treat _willing_ "friends" then they stand
absolutely NO chance persuading _unwilling_ "consumers" to even take one
look at what they have to offer, do they?

It's an oversimplification that people do when they're not really thinking
too deeply into things..."more ads = more buyers = more profit"...some truth
to that but hardly the big picture..."more ads = more _potential_ buyers =
more _opportunity_ for profit" (it's not a done deal until the money's
handed over - actually, with "consumer rights", it's not even a done deal
then either...they have the right of refund, if not satisfied in almost all
countries ;)...and then you have to know how to treat them properly to turn
that _potential_ into real $$$$$$'s...and a very important thing to remember
is that people value privacy too...spamming is a direct violation of that
privacy...

Businesses preach a kind of "know your enemy" style of marketing...really,
have a read of all those "know your target audience" type advice they pass
around and then substitute in your mind the word "consumer" as being a
synonym for "enemy"...and the underlying attitude they have is made very
obvious and clear...I mean, how complementary is "consumer" or "user" as a
term of reference for human beings, anyway? We all get so used to that sort
of jargon, we forget how phenomenally negative, inhuman and insulting it is
and that all that advice they hand out about "luring in consumers" sounds
more like battle plans for a world war than anything else...

And, yes, business is a tough game but it's NOT a war...you start treating
your customers like enemies and they'll respond in kind...you start treating
your customers like their stupid and they'll just walk away...the simplest
way to get this all straight in your mind is simply to remember that you're
a customer for someone else too..."do unto others as you would want done
unto you"...if you hate getting spammed, then don't go spamming other
people...if you prefer to have more articles in a magazine than ads then
when you make a magazine put more articles than ads in...

</BETH>

Beth :)



Tue, 02 Sep 2003 10:05:24 GMT  
 
 [ 11 post ] 

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