How do Fractal Terrains grow 
Author Message
 How do Fractal Terrains grow

Hi

Look "How do Fractal Terrains grow" (an interactive WRL) at
http://www.*-*-*.com/
http://www.*-*-*.com/ ~demidov/VRML/3DLab.htm  :(may be down)

I'm thinking on 3D L-system fractals (trees)

Evgeny



Fri, 20 Dec 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 How do Fractal Terrains grow
 Fractals and recursion create interesting 3d objects
 including plants, terrain, and mathematical objects ...

 Java and vrml Plug-ins are compared for suitability ...

 VRML plug-ins have a speed advantage and are best
at rendering complex scenes quickly.

 Java has an advantage where complex animations
or complex scenes are being created ... they can be
used together ( with VRML EAI ) or separately.

| " 3D L-System fractals (trees) "
|
|  A lot of very realistic looking 3D trees you can find on
|  Laurens Lapre pages ( unfortunately I've seen only
|  2D pictures there :)
|
| 3D trees are defined by tiny LS rules and are generated
| recursively. I have simple 2D L-System applets and "trees"
|  and "carpets" galleries. I didn't find a small realistic 3D tree
| for VRML :-( I could see VRML files with size ~ 1Mb only)
|  but I like very much Fractal Polyhedra.
|
http://www.*-*-*.com/
http://www.*-*-*.com/
http://www.*-*-*.com/

 " Plants : Fractal Patterns and Modeling  " ( Java3D )
  http://www.*-*-*.com/ ~swc/DemoJ3D/VirtualPlants/

" Recursively Defined Structures & Fractals for Plants --  LSystem "
http://www.*-*-*.com/ ~swc/DemoJ3D/VirtualPlants/www/static/
 analysis/analysis.html#_Toc455411504

| But I've got a new problem:
|
|  There are not "multi-colored" and transparent IFS and ILS
|  [ IndexedFaceSet and IndexLineSet - surface and line structures ]
|  in Blaxxun3D.  So I can't make "nice" Terrains and Lorenz.
|  I'll try sphere, Clouds and simple crystals. Or shall I use any
|  other applet ?
|
http://www.*-*-*.com/

 It looks like Shout3d supports using a ColorIndex array
for colorizing IndexedFaceSet meshes, and Java3d should
also.

 The VRML plug-ins are better at rendering complex scenes
relative to Java applets ( Java3D is a different story ).

 Java 1.0 and Java 1.1  applets are slower than native ( compiled )
code and the Blaxxun3d and Shout3d Java Viewers do not implement
some of the rendering options so they can render with less of speed
disadvantage; where rendering speed and quality are the primary
criterea the VRML plug-ins are the logical choice, sometimes they
can be used with Java ( using the VRML EAI ) but this combination
is often problematic and introduces even more portability problems.

http://www.*-*-*.com/
http://www.*-*-*.com/
  shout3d/core/IndexedFaceSet.html
  shout3d/core/IndexedFaceSet.html#color{*filter*}ex
  shout3d/core/IndexedFaceSet.html#colorIndex

http://www.*-*-*.com/
  demos/renderTests/color{*filter*}exCombos.html
  demos/lineRobot.html

 IndexedFaceSet : defining a new Node type ( Pyramid ) which can
  then be used as though it were a primative

http://www.*-*-*.com/
  demos/pyramidClickStretch.html
  codebase/applets/PyramidTestPanel.java
  codebase/applets/PyramidTestApplet.java
  codebase/custom_nodes/Pyramid.java
  codebase/models/onePyramid.s3d

| Questions :
|
| 1. Why a 50kb applet may be faster than a 2 Mb VRML plugin ?
|  E.g. my Cortona is fastest with its own rendering engine
| ( DirectX or OpenGL are slower ).
|
http://www.*-*-*.com/

 There is no one " best solution ", each method has it's own
advantages and disadvantages.

 VRML plug-ins are optimized for one specific machine
type ( the " Windows Only " ones for the x86 architecture )
and are faster at rendering complex scenes.

 However, as you have found _ CREATING _ complex
scenes with Javascript can be very slow -- 10 or 20 times
slower than using Java ( not Javascript or the vrml script )
-- and the VRML EAI interface may be slow.

 Java is faster than the VRML plug-ins when you are creating
complex scenes with numerically intensive computations where
the speed advantage of Java over Javascript dominates.

 So it depends on the task : I'm interested in human animation
of relatively simple models and relatively complex animations
and behaviors and Java is clearly superior for the number
crunching, portability, and superior support for Object-Oriented-
Programming.

2. What is Java3D browser plugin ?

 It's an attempt to make Java3D easier to use on the Web,
 and currently it is relatively difficult and I would discourage
 most people from using it at this time, it will get easier ...
 Sun, AOL / Netscape / Mozilla, and Web3d are working
 to make Java3D easier to use on the web and are working
 to integrate it into the Mozilla browser and integrated it
 into other devices ( so VRML will be portable in portable
 devices and other devices including televisions and Web
 Tablets and Web Pads ).

  The Java FAQ has more info :

  http://www.*-*-*.com/
  http://www.*-*-*.com/

  Again, Java3D requires Java 2 and a graphics layer such as
  OpenGL so it may require _ HUGE _ downloads if placed
  in a web page ... so avoid this unless you have a good reason
  to do otherwise.

3. Is Java3D with DirectX portable to Unix or Mac ?

 First, Macintosh does not support Java3D at this time.

 Macintosh has had very poor support for Java, but
 Steve Jobs was at this years " Java One " conference
 and said " the Macintosh will be the best platform in
 the world for Java " and that Java 2 will ship with
 the new OS-X ( 10 ), and he gave a demo of Java 2
 running on a beta version of OS-X which developers
 have now and will ship with machines in early 2001.
 Apple has not disclosed if they will support Java3D.

  I recommend those using Java3D use OpenGL rather
 than DirectX, and Java3D is portable across Windows,
 Linux, and several other types of Unix ( with SGI & HP-UX ).

 -  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

| " VRML or not VRML "
|
http://www.*-*-*.com/

 I'm using both, displaying VRML with Java ( without plug-ins
on the web using Shout3d and with Java3D for higher quality
rendering off-line, and sometimes creating VRML on-the-fly
and displaying it with Java.

 Both Java and VRML are intended to be portable and they
work together well, and where there are portability problems
and speed problems with Javascript with the Plug-in Viewers
... Java offers a better solution where those are problem.

 " 3D Engines  --- FREE SOURCE CODE available ---
  http://www.*-*-*.com/ ~ki/engines.html
  http://www.*-*-*.com/ ;( Anfy3D info in Russian )

" VRML Java Viewer " -- My Favorite, My Own, et all.
  http://www.*-*-*.com/ ~imaging/java3dviewer.html
  http://www.*-*-*.com/ ~ki/engines.html
  http://www.*-*-*.com/
  http://www.*-*-*.com/
  http://www.*-*-*.com/
 http://www.{*filter*}.koganei.tokyo.jp/top/

 Lots of people are doing lots of things with Java.

Quote:

> Look "How do Factual Terrains grow" (an interactive WRL) at
> http://www.*-*-*.com/
>  ...
> I'm thinking on 3D L-system fractals (trees)


 The Plants example above is very good, it has :
  pictures, source code ( Java3d ) and the theory.

 Examples :  VRML EAI Demo & FAQ,  Java only :

  http://www.*-*-*.com/ ~imaging/HAnimPoser.html
  http://www.*-*-*.com/ ~imaging/eaifaq.html
  http://www.*-*-*.com/ ~imaging/H-Anim_Avatars.html
  http://www.*-*-*.com/ ~imaging/java3dviewer.html

   -- Paul,  Java Developer & Web Animator.
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
 "Imaging the Imagined : Modeling with Math & a Keyboard"



Sat, 21 Dec 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 How do Fractal Terrains grow
Hi Paul

I made "animated" octahedron with Blaxxun3D
http://www.people.nnov.ru/fractal/VRML/Test/anim.htm
http://www.people.nnov.ru/fractal/VRML/Test/examine.htm

It was very simple. I'll try Ice Mountains at al. after I learn Blaxxun3D
EAI.

Evgeny



Sun, 22 Dec 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 How do Fractal Terrains grow
On Wed, 05 Jul 2000 11:38:17 +0400, Evgeny Demidov

Quote:

>Hi Paul

>I made "animated" octahedron with Blaxxun3D
>http://www.people.nnov.ru/fractal/VRML/Test/anim.htm
>http://www.people.nnov.ru/fractal/VRML/Test/examine.htm

>It was very simple. I'll try Ice Mountains at al. after I learn Blaxxun3D
>EAI.

>Evgeny

Totally amazing animation! Thanks Paul + Evgeny, what a team!


Sun, 22 Dec 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 How do Fractal Terrains grow
Hi jake reid:

Quote:
> Totally amazing animation! Thanks Paul + Evgeny, what a team!

It was really very easy.
The great mystery (or secret :) is:

how to make a 3D applet without any pluging (like Blaxxun, Anfy ...)
I've found several OpenGL Java bindings:
http://www.opengl.org/Documentation/Implementations/Languages.html?Ja...

but all of them need installation for browser? (I looked "Magician" only :)
As like as Java3D :-(

Evgeny



Sun, 22 Dec 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 How do Fractal Terrains grow

Quote:

>The great mystery (or secret :) is:
>how to make a 3D applet without any pluging (like Blaxxun, Anfy ...)
>I've found several OpenGL Java bindings:
>http://www.opengl.org/Documentation/Implementations/Languages.html?Ja...
st_hit
>but all of them need installation for browser? (I looked "Magician" only :)
>As like as Java3D :-(

>Evgeny

I don't think it's necessary to install any browser
plugins for viewing 3D applets developed in Anfy3D.
Since they are written in standard Java, almost
every browser will run them.

/P-O Olsson



Mon, 23 Dec 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 How do Fractal Terrains grow
Hi P-O Olsson:

Quote:
> >The great mystery (or secret :) is:
> >how to make a 3D applet without any pluging (like Blaxxun, Anfy ...)
> I don't think it's necessary to install any browser
> plugins for viewing 3D applets developed in Anfy3D.
> Since they are written in standard Java, almost
> every browser will run them.

I can't set "camera target" (centre of rotation) in Anfy. And I have to learn
Blaxxun, Shout, Anfy... I'd better write my own library (if I can :)
Now I have to learn Blaxxun EAI for int{*filter*} with an applet.

Evgeny



Tue, 24 Dec 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 How do Fractal Terrains grow
Interesting that we were both working on truncated octahedrons at the same
time.
http://www.philliphansel.com/shout/autogen_octa_cube_trunc.html

I used Spazz3D and Shout3D so it was very easy. I am working on the 32
crystal classes, but am not finished yet.

--
---
Mr. Phillip Sand Hansel II

http://philliphansel.com

Quote:
> Hi Paul

> I made "animated" octahedron with Blaxxun3D
> http://www.people.nnov.ru/fractal/VRML/Test/anim.htm
> http://www.people.nnov.ru/fractal/VRML/Test/examine.htm

> It was very simple. I'll try Ice Mountains at al. after I learn Blaxxun3D
> EAI.

> Evgeny



Tue, 24 Dec 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 How do Fractal Terrains grow
Hi "Mr. Phillip":

Quote:
> Interesting that we were both working on truncated octahedrons at the same
> time.
> http://www.philliphansel.com/shout/autogen_octa_cube_trunc.html
> I used Spazz3D and Shout3D so it was very easy. I am working on the 32
> crystal classes, but am not finished yet.

It is much faster unde NC4.7 than under IE5.
Is it a regular hexagon? It must be due to cube symmetry.

I prefer Java3D now. I don't like 3D applets because they are not free :)

Evgeny



Fri, 27 Dec 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 
 [ 10 post ] 

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