VRML/EAI or Java3D? 
Author Message
 VRML/EAI or Java3D?

Hi. I'm in the "mental planning" stage of writing an application in
which a simple 3-d world is manipulated via a java program. I've
read a little about both vrml interfacing and Java3D, but don't know
enough (yet) to decide which is better. Any opinions? My app. will
need to be able to select objects in the 3-d world, drag/rotate them,
maipulate the overall scene viewpoint (like "flying" with a VRML
browser), add/remove objects dynamically (via menus in the java app), change
colors, etc. There won't be a huge number of objects in the scene, but of
course good runtime speed would be nice.
  Are there any FAQ's or similar things out there on the comparison
between these two protocols?
  Thanks for any tips.

 - Paul

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 Thiessen   |   http://www.*-*-*.com/ ~paul  |   University
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Mon, 16 Oct 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 VRML/EAI or Java3D?

Quote:

> Hi. I'm in the "mental planning" stage of writing an application in
> which a simple 3-d world is manipulated via a java program. I've
> read a little about both VRML interfacing and Java3D, but don't know
> enough (yet) to decide which is better. Any opinions?

Hi, Paul.  VRML EAI has been here a while, but I'd call it
(once you get over any classpath problems) only about 90%
bulletproof (where "bulletproof" = I'd bet my career on
being able to make it do what I need it to do).  Java3D
is sort of here (alpha, if you sign up for the Java
developers' list) but taking into account the known bugs
and unimplemented features, I'd call it about as bulletproof
as a croissant.

Personally, I sometimes wish I just started VRML last week
instead of struggling through two years of beta hell.  So
I'm just a {*filter*}sy bit gun-shy.  Gun shy?  Hell, I'd rather
put my private parts in a vise than try out another alpha.
Give it another 12-18 months and then I might look at it.

Mind you, they may have performed miracles over there at
Sun and I'll be missing out on the treat of a lifetime.

Being at my old alma mater, you will no doubt recognize
the author of the immortal words:

        Be not the first by whom the new are tried
        Nor yet the last to lay the old aside.

Of course, folks at Hopkins may just be irresistibly
drawn to a challenge.  In which case, why not do it
in Ada 95 or Forth?

I don't know of any comparisons, but you can look at
http://www.*-*-*.com/ , click "All about VRML
& Java" and head for the EAI section.  There's a number of
demos that do the kinds of things you were talking about,
and you can evaluate for yourself how well the EAI will
meet your requirements.

And btw, you're a baaaaaad boy for crossposting to the VRML
and Java lists.  Should I give some sort of obligatory
"VRML is kewl" speech, or should I just mention H----r
and call it a day?
--
Rev. Bob "Bob" Crispen

Music shouldn't be held responsible for the people who listen to it.



Wed, 18 Oct 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 VRML/EAI or Java3D?

Quote:

> Hi. I'm in the "mental planning" stage of writing an application in
> which a simple 3-d world is manipulated via a java program. I've
> read a little about both VRML interfacing and Java3D, but don't know
> enough (yet) to decide which is better. Any opinions? My app. will
> need to be able to select objects in the 3-d world, drag/rotate them,
> maipulate the overall scene viewpoint (like "flying" with a VRML
> browser), add/remove objects dynamically (via menus in the java app), change
> colors, etc. There won't be a huge number of objects in the scene, but of
> course good runtime speed would be nice.

If you want to hear my opinion: I would use neither VRML/EAI nor Java3D
for a real world application (one, which consist of more than 25 lines
of code :-).

Java3D - at all - seems to be a promising approach, but it is not more
than a pre-alpha yet. First of all I don't see any hardware acceleration
(in graphic cards or subsystems) yet.

VRML does not have this problems - the (IMHO) best player (Cosmo)
reached 2.0 - which means that it has left the beta stadium now and
supports OpenGL on Windows and SGI (which means that it benefits from
hardware acceleration)

But the design EAI is only rubbish. To generate a simple shape you need
to write endless lines of code, especially when you want to make it
save.

If you are looking for a stable, approved 3D library have a look at Open
Inventor. Inventor has currently lost a little popularity since the
VRML-hipe was coming up, but it's a proven technology for many years.

The native interface for Inventor is C++ but TGS (see www.tgs.com) has
written a java interface too.

C.U.CW
--
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                            (. .)
_________________________ooO_(_)_Ooo_____________________________
Christoph Wick,         GMD Forschungszentrum Informationstechnik

Fon: +49 2241 14 2829                       Fax: +49 2241 14 2065
                   http://zeus.gmd.de/~wicki  
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Fri, 20 Oct 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 VRML/EAI or Java3D?

Let's see.  This is because someone pooped in your face.  Was it Sun,
for at first disagreeing with SGI over VRML in Java3D, and then
about-facing after Cosmo3D died and SGI went to MS?  Was it SGI, for
developing many different APIs instead of one?

By the way, WHY did Inventor have to happen seperately from Performer?
And if either was so good, why didn't Alias|Wavefront use them?

Quote:


> > Hi. I'm in the "mental planning" stage of writing an application in
> > which a simple 3-d world is manipulated via a java program. I've
> > read a little about both VRML interfacing and Java3D, but don't know
> > enough (yet) to decide which is better. Any opinions?

> Personally, I sometimes wish I just started VRML last week
> instead of struggling through two years of beta hell.  So
> I'm just a {*filter*}sy bit gun-shy.  Gun shy?  Hell, I'd rather
> put my private parts in a vise than try out another alpha.
> Give it another 12-18 months and then I might look at it.
> --
> Rev. Bob "Bob" Crispen

> Music shouldn't be held responsible for the people who listen to it.



Mon, 23 Oct 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 VRML/EAI or Java3D?

Quote:


<..>

> Java3D - at all - seems to be a promising approach, but it is not more
> than a pre-alpha yet. First of all I don't see any hardware acceleration
> (in graphic cards or subsystems) yet.

<...>

Just to clear that out: you NEED OpenGL for the Java3D-prealpha to work.
If you read the system requirements, you'll faint. It won't even work on
Solaris without accelerating hardware :-(  (Sitting an an XTerm, having
less quota problems than I thought :-))

So there IS hardware acceleration

Axel



Tue, 24 Oct 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 VRML/EAI or Java3D?


Quote:


> <..>

> > Java3D - at all - seems to be a promising approach, but it is not more
> > than a pre-alpha yet. First of all I don't see any hardware acceleration
> > (in graphic cards or subsystems) yet.
> <...>
> Just to clear that out: you NEED OpenGL for the Java3D-prealpha to work.
> If you read the system requirements, you'll faint. It won't even work on
> Solaris without accelerating hardware :-(  (Sitting an an XTerm, having
> less quota problems than I thought :-))

This is incorrect.  I've run Java 3D on a system with only the OpenGL
libraries and no specialized OpenGL graphics hardware on a Sparc 20.

--

Project Manager - NCSA Java 3D Group
The Java3D FAQ:      http://tintoy.ncsa.uiuc.edu/~srp/java3d/faq.html
Java News Network:   http://tintoy.ncsa.uiuc.edu/~srp/java/javanews.html



Fri, 27 Oct 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 VRML/EAI or Java3D?

<...>
:
: > Just to clear that out: you NEED OpenGL for the Java3D-prealpha to work.
: > If you read the system requirements, you'll faint. It won't even work on
: > Solaris without accelerating hardware :-(  (Sitting an an XTerm, having
: > less quota problems than I thought :-))
:
: This is incorrect.  I've run Java 3D on a system with only the OpenGL
: libraries and no specialized OpenGL graphics hardware on a Sparc 20.

I must say that I am e{*filter*}d about the possibilities of using the 3D API,
and the possibilities are definitely there, but ...
The spec I got when I downloaded it all did suggest that it needed
up-to-date graphics, and seemed to be aimed at Creator Graphics, but since
I never got it running after upgrading everything from the JDK to patched
OpenGL I'm possibly wrong. I must say, if I had a choice between
setting up a quick demo using Java3d or VRML it'd have to be with a VRML
viewer, which I know is going to work. As currently implemented, (unless
Sun improves the ease of installing it, on their own machines as well, for
heavens sakes!) then its takeup is surely going to be highly limited?
That would be a shame.



Wed, 22 Nov 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 VRML/EAI or Java3D?

[...]
 : : > If you read the system requirements, you'll faint. It won't even work on
 : : > Solaris without accelerating hardware :-(  (Sitting an an XTerm, having
 : : > less quota problems than I thought :-))
 : :
 : : This is incorrect.  I've run Java 3D on a system with only the OpenGL
 : : libraries and no specialized OpenGL graphics hardware on a Sparc 20.
Hi,
was it on a solaris system ? Because I have tried to use Java 3D with Mesa
as an OpenGL library, I couldn't get it work. But If you could, it's my
fault. Could you give more precisions about your system ?

Thanks,

Bzzz

--

Vincent Haverlant,

http://www-stud.enst.fr/~haverlan/



Sat, 25 Nov 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 VRML/EAI or Java3D?

Does anyone know if the 3D API will be usable in applets?  Also, how do you
install the software, can it be done on a PC for coding purposes?



Sun, 03 Dec 2000 03:00:00 GMT  
 
 [ 9 post ] 

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