Death of Java? 
Author Message
 Death of Java?

Is it true MS won't be supporting Virtual Machine anymore starting with the
next release of IE?  If so, won't this eventually lead to the demise of all
our Java aps?


Mon, 11 Aug 2003 04:17:39 GMT  
 Death of Java?
Quote:
> Is it true MS won't be supporting Virtual Machine anymore starting with
the
> next release of IE?  If so, won't this eventually lead to the demise of
all
> our Java aps?

not sure whether thats true, but as far as i understand it, after the sun v
microsoft case a while ago, the end result was that Microsoft would not be
able to work with anything past Java 1.1. So even if microsoft continues to
have the old 1.1 compatable JVM in IE, whether developers will continue to
develop in an older version just to support MS systems is debateable.
db


Mon, 11 Aug 2003 04:44:45 GMT  
 Death of Java?

Quote:

> > Is it true MS won't be supporting Virtual Machine anymore starting with
> the
> > next release of IE?  If so, won't this eventually lead to the demise of
> all
> > our Java aps?
> not sure whether thats true, but as far as i understand it, after the sun v
> microsoft case a while ago, the end result was that Microsoft would not be
> able to work with anything past Java 1.1. So even if microsoft continues to
> have the old 1.1 compatable JVM in IE, whether developers will continue to
> develop in an older version just to support MS systems is debateable.
> db

That's my interpretation too, but one can never know. To be precise,
it's not from version 1.1.4. According to MS there will be a clear
migration path from java to C# that microsoft will release in a couple
of months. Ironically it's called JUMP. But it doesn't help much does it
??

The "finalalized" status on that matter made us jump from J++ to
JBuilder4. And since our client side is 100% windows we will just wait
long enough to get CORBA/COM running from C# before we switch over on
the client side.

Cheers,
/Niclas



Mon, 11 Aug 2003 08:30:30 GMT  
 Death of Java?

Quote:

> Is it true MS won't be supporting Virtual Machine anymore starting with the
> next release of IE?  If so, won't this eventually lead to the demise of all
> our Java aps?

The JRE Java Plugin from Sun works in IE, and gives you Java 1.3.

BUT
I have had problems getting vrml plugins (CosmoPlayer) to work along
side this?

I'm not sure how VRML plugins find a JVM for Script classes, so
there may be problems, depends on how the VRML plugin works.

Alun



Mon, 11 Aug 2003 22:50:11 GMT  
 Death of Java?
 Should we bend over when the Monopolist wants to{*filter*}Us ? (again)

   Was: " Death of Java [ Linux, Portability, Choice, Freedom, ... ]  "

  Linux, VRML & Java provide viable ... *** BETTER *** solutions ...

 The Web Standards will Prevail over Microsoft {*filter*}s.

  HTML, IP, XML,  Linux, VRML & Java will survive & prevail.

 Yes, Microsoft wants us to buy and use Microsoft products.

  Yes, Microsoft wants to manipulate and control standards
to benefit Microsoft: not you or the consumer in general.

 Yes, Microsoft has done things are illegal and unethical
to destroy competing companies & standards including
Netscape, Java, and portable graphics languages like VRML
-- this is NOT my opinion -- the US Justice Department
investigated the matter, found prosecution was warranted,
took Microsoft to court, there was a trial, and the
US Federal Judge and Courts ruled :

 Microsoft is _ GUILTY _ of _ illegally_ using its
monopoly powers to destroy competing companies
and standards including Java

  ... and  __ hurting consumers ____
  ... and  __ stifling competition __

 Thus sayith the Judge   -- don't gripe to me ---

 if __  you  __ have a  __ problem ___ with the
 judicial system here in the United States or are
 __ against freedom ___  ... competition & choice.

  I prefer fair and open competition,  capitalism where
companies and technologies compete ~~ in an ethical manner ~~,
freedom of choice, freedom from the excessive powers
of either gangs, governments, or monopolists.

 Microsoft tried to 'pollute' & kill Java:

 Microsoft failed: Java grows & lives.

 Microsoft dominates the Desktop ( where technology
stagnates & sales stagnate ) but is very weak in the fast
growing new markets.

 ~~ Five of Five ~~ of the top cell phone makers will
use the Symbian EPOC Operating System in their
web capable phone with color displays and faster
processors.

 That's giving you the ** FULL ** Web experience ...

  A ** FULLY ** capable web browser is a
 Java enabled Web Browser, so you can display
  *** YOUR ** VRML in it ....

  AVOID devices that are CRIPPLED by the Monopolist.

 Microsoft's WebTV is a CRIPPLED device.
 Microsoft's WinCE OS and PocketPC are CRIPPLED devices.

  ParalellGraphics' VR-not-really-ML Viewer for the WinCE
Devices does _NOT_ support Java: that's bad for VRML.

   AOL-TimeWarner-Netscape is all one company now and
they are large and effective counter weight to Microsoft.

  AOL-TimeWarner-Netscape can and will support VRML
and Java will through it's __ MILLIONS __ of AOL subscribers ...

 AOL is the #1 ISP provider in the US ( and the world ? )
 AOL's RoadRunner Cable Modem service is the largest
in the US ( and the world ? )

 Cable TV Converter Boxes will support games & interactive
programs ... Java will be there ... Java is there ...

 Java is in your Palm: The MS Win API is not.
 Java is in 'Smart' Credit Cards: The MS Win API is not.
 Java is in Cell Phones: The MS Win API is not.
 Java is in TV Cable Converter Boxes: The MS Win API is not.

 The ( ' big three / tiny three'  ) VRML Plug-in Viewers don't
work on Linux ... Java does ...

 Let your VRML run all Devices connected to the Internet ...

 ( all except the ones illegally  CRIPPLED by the Monopolist )

 Some companies are against VRML and against the ideal of
having portable graphics,

 they want __ YOUR __ VRML__  to __ FAIL __ on machines ...

  where the consumer has not paid the Microsoft Tax ...

 These companies included : Microsoft & ParallelGraphics.

 Using their non-standard-standards will make YOUR VRML FAIL on:

 - the neatest, newest, fastest growing market segments including :

The " New Internet Computer Company " -- Think NIC -- Linux Web Appliance
--------------------------------------------- $200 -- Linux, doesn't Crash
like windows.
  http://www.*-*-*.com/

 FEATURES :
  - NO Microsoft Tax, NO Microsoft Viruses, NO Microsoft Crashes
  - NO Microsoft twisted, changing, proprietary non-standard-standards

  - YES: YOUR VRML works ( if you're not using non-standard
ParallelGraphics )
  - YES: YOUR Java  works.

" Linux Based PDA with Color Screen & 206 M-Hz Arm CPU ( Yopy ) "
-------------------------------------------------------------------
  http://www.*-*-*.com/

  " Connected Web Pad " -- with Linux & a Crusoe -- From Gateway & AOL
  --------------------------  available __  TODAY  __
    http://www.*-*-*.com/

 " Interactive TV with Java "
 -----------------------------

 |  Liberate TV Navigator combines the best of
 |   television and Internet standards into one
 |  compelling, interactive environment. This content,
 |  called enhanced TV, is delivered to interactive TV
 |  receivers as a component of the television
 |   broadcast signal. The Liberate software platform
 |  combines
 |
 |  Internet content standards such as
 |
 |  ____  HTML, ____  JavaScript, and
 |  ____  Java _______ with digital television standards,
 |
  http://www.*-*-*.com/
  http://www.*-*-*.com/
  http://www.*-*-*.com/

 " Cool Devices with Linux " including Intel, Nokia,
 -------------------------------
  http://www.*-*-*.com/
  http://www.*-*-*.com/
  http://www.*-*-*.com/

Microsoft is on the decline, the 1900's are over, the Desktop Era is over.

 The Web is open standards : HTML, XML, IP, VRML, Java, Linux.

 ... is Linux more open than Java ? ... yes, and both are better the Win
API.

 Can  *** I *** create Web Animations that are portable across:

  - Windows
  - Linux, Solaris, and other Unix-es
  - Macintosh
  - Symbian / EPOC
  - Be
  - PDAs, Phones, Game Machines, Automobiles & etc ?

 Y-E-S ! !  YES ! !   Yes  ! ! ! yes ... with VRML & Java ...

 I've done, you can, we all can:  VRML is the portable solution.

 " VRML & Java work on Win-Lin-Mac & More " : Today & Forever.
 -----------------------------------------------------
  http://www.*-*-*.com/ ~imaging/java3d_and_vrml.html
  http://www.*-*-*.com/ ~imaging/H-Anim_Avatars.html

"Distributed Virtual Worlds:... Using Vrml, Java, and Corba"
---------------------------------------------------------
| everyone connected to the Internet can directly
| enter a virtual world __ without __ installing
| a new kind of software. The VRML technology offers ...
| interactive three-dimensional ... [ coming March 31, 2001 ]
|
| Stephan Diehl, author & General Chair of __ Web3D __ 2001 __
|
http://www.*-*-*.com/

|  Is it true MS won't be supporting [ Java ] Virtual Machine
|  anymore starting with the next release of  IE ?
|  If so, won't this eventually lead to the demise of all
| our Java aps?
|
  Post to comp.lang.vrml:  "Death of Java ?" by "Mike Smith"
|
  http://www.*-*-*.com/

 Any computer connected to the web that doesn't have
Java installed can get Java installed via the Web --
and it will work even on  poorly designed, over-priced
OSes that crash too often, and get viruses from e-mails.

 Microsoft's War against the consumer and Web Surfer
continue, now some companies deliver error messages
when you browse with Netscape, Opera, or Mozilla:

 " Train Game but{*filter*}YOU if you're not using MS Explorer "
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
  http://www.*-*-*.com/

 This gave me this 'error message' :
 |
 |  [!] __ Sorry, __ ... only _ [ Microsoft's ]_ Internet Explorer
 |  ...  for ____ [ Microsoft ] ____ Windows can do this ...
 |

 This from a company that pretended to support the
__ portable __  vendor & platform neutral
Graphics Language ___ VRML ___ ! ! !

| A totally gobsmacking production!
| From the Parallelgraphics team.
| Web content like this is going to make
| vrml the long awaited Buzz word!
| Well done you guys and gals this is smokin`!!!!!!!
|
|  Check it out for yourelves!
|
| Jake WOOO! WOOOOOOOOOO! Chuffin Great!!!
|
  Jake wrote to comp.lang.vrml

 An  Error  message is all I got  ;^(

 For portable animation on the Web ... use Java.

 For animation that FAILs for many users,  try the URL above.

 Is 3d Profitable on the Web ?

 Yes : 3D _ is _ profitable on the web :

' EverQuest ' has more than a ~~~ 100,000 ~~~ _ subscribers _
who both bought the game and pay a __ monthly fee __ ... to play:

http://www.*-*-*.com/ ,3266,26830,00.html
http://www.*-*-*.com/

 The above is the innovate game from * SONY * ...

 Sony is pretty good at games, graphics & consumer devices ...
and since the X-Box was announced ... and Sony got screwed
by Microsoft ... yet again  ... Sony is looking favorably on
Java and Java run's in Sony's Palm Based PDAs ... and Sony
will support Java in more and more consumer products in
the future ...

 Microsoft has screwed a few too many  companies,
 Microsoft __ HAS BEEN __ found __ GUILTY __
 of doing too many __ ILLEGAL & UNETHICAL __  things.

  Microsoft dominates the Desktop ...

  Microsoft dominates the declining, boring, stagnating,
 obsolete, 1900's era technology of the x86 stand-alone PC.

  The Web Grows ... and the Web API is ~ NOT ~ the Win API.

 If ... We want VRML and / or Java to succeed ...

...  We should use, support, and speak up for VRML & Java.

 Java is more than applets, Java works on the Server,
Client, and in Mobile and Embedded devices ... and
Java has seen its biggest successes beyond the browser,
but it grows & thrives in the browser as well ...

  The Law, Justice, Innovation, & Consumers are on our side.

 -- Paul,   Java Developer & Web Animator.
 -------------------------------------------------
" Imaging the Imagined : Modeling with Math & a keyboard "



Tue, 12 Aug 2003 00:48:44 GMT  
 Death of Java?
        You forgot to mention that without the standardization that
the Microsoft 'monopoly' brought to the PC development cycle, the
world wouldn't be where it is... Computers wouldn't be as cheap, and a
lot of software, probably including JAVA, wouldn't have been developed
because the internet and the World Wide Web would have still been out
of reach of the average home user...
        But I'm sure you'll have some reason why that's not true, all
the anti-Microsoft people do. Why not just use what you're comfortable
with and leave everything else to everyone else?

On Thu, 22 Feb 2001 16:48:44 GMT, "P Flavin"

Quote:

> Should we bend over when the Monopolist wants to{*filter*}Us ? (again)

>   Was: " Death of Java [ Linux, Portability, Choice, Freedom, ... ]  "

>  Linux, VRML & Java provide viable ... *** BETTER *** solutions ...

> The Web Standards will Prevail over Microsoft {*filter*}s.

>  HTML, IP, XML,  Linux, VRML & Java will survive & prevail.

> Yes, Microsoft wants us to buy and use Microsoft products.

>  Yes, Microsoft wants to manipulate and control standards
>to benefit Microsoft: not you or the consumer in general.

> Yes, Microsoft has done things are illegal and unethical
>to destroy competing companies & standards including
>Netscape, Java, and portable graphics languages like VRML
>-- this is NOT my opinion -- the US Justice Department
>investigated the matter, found prosecution was warranted,
>took Microsoft to court, there was a trial, and the
>US Federal Judge and Courts ruled :

> Microsoft is _ GUILTY _ of _ illegally_ using its
>monopoly powers to destroy competing companies
>and standards including Java

>  ... and  __ hurting consumers ____
>  ... and  __ stifling competition __

> Thus sayith the Judge   -- don't gripe to me ---

> if __  you  __ have a  __ problem ___ with the
> judicial system here in the United States or are
> __ against freedom ___  ... competition & choice.

>  I prefer fair and open competition,  capitalism where
>companies and technologies compete ~~ in an ethical manner ~~,
>freedom of choice, freedom from the excessive powers
>of either gangs, governments, or monopolists.

> Microsoft tried to 'pollute' & kill Java:

> Microsoft failed: Java grows & lives.

> Microsoft dominates the Desktop ( where technology
>stagnates & sales stagnate ) but is very weak in the fast
>growing new markets.

> ~~ Five of Five ~~ of the top cell phone makers will
>use the Symbian EPOC Operating System in their
>web capable phone with color displays and faster
>processors.

> That's giving you the ** FULL ** Web experience ...

>  A ** FULLY ** capable web browser is a
> Java enabled Web Browser, so you can display
>  *** YOUR ** VRML in it ....

>  AVOID devices that are CRIPPLED by the Monopolist.

> Microsoft's WebTV is a CRIPPLED device.
> Microsoft's WinCE OS and PocketPC are CRIPPLED devices.

>  ParalellGraphics' VR-not-really-ML Viewer for the WinCE
>Devices does _NOT_ support Java: that's bad for VRML.

>   AOL-TimeWarner-Netscape is all one company now and
>they are large and effective counter weight to Microsoft.

>  AOL-TimeWarner-Netscape can and will support VRML
>and Java will through it's __ MILLIONS __ of AOL subscribers ...

> AOL is the #1 ISP provider in the US ( and the world ? )
> AOL's RoadRunner Cable Modem service is the largest
>in the US ( and the world ? )

> Cable TV Converter Boxes will support games & interactive
>programs ... Java will be there ... Java is there ...

> Java is in your Palm: The MS Win API is not.
> Java is in 'Smart' Credit Cards: The MS Win API is not.
> Java is in Cell Phones: The MS Win API is not.
> Java is in TV Cable Converter Boxes: The MS Win API is not.

> The ( ' big three / tiny three'  ) VRML Plug-in Viewers don't
>work on Linux ... Java does ...

> Let your VRML run all Devices connected to the Internet ...

> ( all except the ones illegally  CRIPPLED by the Monopolist )

> Some companies are against VRML and against the ideal of
>having portable graphics,

> they want __ YOUR __ VRML__  to __ FAIL __ on machines ...

>  where the consumer has not paid the Microsoft Tax ...

> These companies included : Microsoft & ParallelGraphics.

> Using their non-standard-standards will make YOUR VRML FAIL on:

> - the neatest, newest, fastest growing market segments including :

>The " New Internet Computer Company " -- Think NIC -- Linux Web Appliance
>--------------------------------------------- $200 -- Linux, doesn't Crash
>like windows.
>   http://www.*-*-*.com/

> FEATURES :
>  - NO Microsoft Tax, NO Microsoft Viruses, NO Microsoft Crashes
>  - NO Microsoft twisted, changing, proprietary non-standard-standards

>  - YES: YOUR VRML works ( if you're not using non-standard
>ParallelGraphics )
>  - YES: YOUR Java  works.

>" Linux Based PDA with Color Screen & 206 M-Hz Arm CPU ( Yopy ) "
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.*-*-*.com/

>  " Connected Web Pad " -- with Linux & a Crusoe -- From Gateway & AOL
>  --------------------------  available __  TODAY  __
>   http://www.*-*-*.com/

> " Interactive TV with Java "
> -----------------------------

> |  Liberate TV Navigator combines the best of
> |   television and Internet standards into one
> |  compelling, interactive environment. This content,
> |  called enhanced TV, is delivered to interactive TV
> |  receivers as a component of the television
> |   broadcast signal. The Liberate software platform
> |  combines
> |
> |  Internet content standards such as
> |
> |  ____  HTML, ____  JavaScript, and
> |  ____  Java _______ with digital television standards,
> |
>   http://www.*-*-*.com/
>   http://www.*-*-*.com/
>   http://www.*-*-*.com/

> " Cool Devices with Linux " including Intel, Nokia,
> -------------------------------
> http://www.*-*-*.com/
> http://www.*-*-*.com/
> http://www.*-*-*.com/

>Microsoft is on the decline, the 1900's are over, the Desktop Era is over.

> The Web is open standards : HTML, XML, IP, VRML, Java, Linux.

> ... is Linux more open than Java ? ... yes, and both are better the Win
>API.

> Can  *** I *** create Web Animations that are portable across:

>  - Windows
>  - Linux, Solaris, and other Unix-es
>  - Macintosh
>  - Symbian / EPOC
>  - Be
>  - PDAs, Phones, Game Machines, Automobiles & etc ?

> Y-E-S ! !  YES ! !   Yes  ! ! ! yes ... with VRML & Java ...

> I've done, you can, we all can:  VRML is the portable solution.

> " VRML & Java work on Win-Lin-Mac & More " : Today & Forever.
> -----------------------------------------------------
>   http://www.*-*-*.com/ ~imaging/java3d_and_vrml.html
>   http://www.*-*-*.com/ ~imaging/H-Anim_Avatars.html

>"Distributed Virtual Worlds:... Using Vrml, Java, and Corba"
>---------------------------------------------------------
>| everyone connected to the Internet can directly
>| enter a virtual world __ without __ installing
>| a new kind of software. The VRML technology offers ...
>| interactive three-dimensional ... [ coming March 31, 2001 ]
>|
>| Stephan Diehl, author & General Chair of __ Web3D __ 2001 __
>|
> http://www.*-*-*.com/

>|  Is it true MS won't be supporting [ Java ] Virtual Machine
>|  anymore starting with the next release of  IE ?
>|  If so, won't this eventually lead to the demise of all
>| our Java aps?
>|
>  Post to comp.lang.vrml:  "Death of Java ?" by "Mike Smith"
>|
>   http://www.*-*-*.com/

> Any computer connected to the web that doesn't have
>Java installed can get Java installed via the Web --
>and it will work even on  poorly designed, over-priced
>OSes that crash too often, and get viruses from e-mails.

> Microsoft's War against the consumer and Web Surfer
>continue, now some companies deliver error messages
>when you browse with Netscape, Opera, or Mozilla:

> " Train Game but{*filter*}YOU if you're not using MS Explorer "
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.*-*-*.com/

> This gave me this 'error message' :
> |
> |  [!] __ Sorry, __ ... only _ [ Microsoft's ]_ Internet Explorer
> |  ...  for ____ [ Microsoft ] ____ Windows can do this ...
> |

> This from a company that pretended to support the
>__ portable __  vendor & platform neutral
>Graphics Language ___ VRML ___ ! ! !

>| A totally gobsmacking production!
>| From the Parallelgraphics team.
>| Web content like this is going to make
>| vrml the long awaited Buzz word!
>| Well done you guys and gals this is smokin`!!!!!!!
>|
>|  Check it out for yourelves!
>|
>| Jake WOOO! WOOOOOOOOOO! Chuffin Great!!!
>|
>  Jake wrote to comp.lang.vrml

> An  Error  message is all I got  ;^(

> For portable animation on the Web ... use Java.

> For animation that FAILs for many users,  try the URL above.

> Is 3d Profitable on the Web ?

> Yes : 3D _ is _ profitable on the web :

>' EverQuest ' has more than a ~~~ 100,000 ~~~ _ subscribers _
>who both bought the game and pay a __ monthly fee __ ... to play:

> http://www.*-*-*.com/ ,3266,26830,00.html
> http://www.*-*-*.com/

> The above is the innovate game from * SONY * ...

> Sony is pretty good at games, graphics & consumer devices ...
>and since the X-Box was announced ... and Sony got screwed
>by Microsoft ... yet again  ... Sony is looking favorably on
>Java and Java run's in Sony's Palm Based PDAs ... and Sony
>will support Java in more and more consumer products in
>the future ...

> Microsoft has screwed a few too many  companies,
> Microsoft __ HAS BEEN __ found __ GUILTY __
> of

...

read more »



Tue, 12 Aug 2003 09:34:09 GMT  
 Death of Java?
Quote:
> You forgot to mention that without the standardization that
> the Microsoft 'monopoly' brought to the PC development cycle, the
> world wouldn't be where it is... Computers wouldn't be as cheap, and a
> lot of software, probably including JAVA, wouldn't have been developed
> because the internet and the World Wide Web would have still been out
> of reach of the average home user...
> But I'm sure you'll have some reason why that's not true, all
> the anti-Microsoft people do. Why not just use what you're comfortable
> with and leave everything else to everyone else?

2 true, but this guy is our resident (not by our choice. mind you) Java
evangelist, can't seem to get rid of him for some reason..
db


Tue, 12 Aug 2003 13:13:52 GMT  
 Death of Java?

Quote:
>   HTML, IP, XML,  Linux, VRML & Java will survive & prevail.

um... XML is an open file format format (yes i did mean to say it twice), it
was developed from HTML, dosn't mean it has anything to do with the web..

Quote:
>  Yes, Microsoft wants us to buy and use Microsoft products.

and Sun want ppl to use Java products, it may be a more open API, but Sun
still own it.

Quote:
>  Microsoft tried to 'pollute' & kill Java:
>  Microsoft failed: Java grows & lives.

but MS still won, now those who write for Java won't be supporting the
majority of computer users who use MS systems. just like VRML developers who
develop for a plugin rather than in Java, now developing VRML in Java or for
plugin use will be just as difficult on MS users, either way they will need
to download and install a plugin. Personally i think it will be just another
reason for VRML developers to encourage ppl to use VRML specific plugins, if
they have to get a plugin anyway, why not get an efficient one designed
specifically for the platform they are using.

Quote:
>   A ** FULLY ** capable web browser is a
>  Java enabled Web Browser, so you can display
>   *** YOUR ** VRML in it ....

there is no such thing as a fully enabled web browser, if it existed it
would natively support Java, VRML, HTML, and *every* other so called
'internet specification' of which i am sure there are an infinite number,
what makes a browser with Java support any more 'complete' than a browser
with native vrml support, or with native <insert any other format> support?

Quote:
>   AVOID devices that are CRIPPLED by the Monopolist.

well thats your choice...

Quote:
>   ParalellGraphics' VR-not-really-ML Viewer for the WinCE
> Devices does _NOT_ support Java: that's bad for VRML.

so the new Java for PDAs dosn't support Java? hows that for hypocrisy, it
suports a **sub-set of Java**, about as usefull as having to write crippled
VRML to deal with plugins that aren't spec compliant, or limited by not
implementing the entire specification, whihc, btw does not include Java, the
spec only recommends that *if* java is implemented it is done in a specific
manner.

Quote:
>    AOL-TimeWarner-Netscape is all one company now and
> they are large and effective counter weight to Microsoft.

and if microsoft ceases to exist when this conglomerate increases in size?
what then? we have another monopoly.

Quote:
>  Cable TV Converter Boxes will support games & interactive
> programs ... Java will be there ... Java is there ...

it is there or it will be there?

Quote:
>  Java is in your Palm: The MS Win API is not.

see previous note about the PDA subset, known as J2ME see:
http://www.*-*-*.com/
for more info.

Quote:
>  The ( ' big three / tiny three'  ) VRML Plug-in Viewers don't
> work on Linux ... Java does ...

Just as there are VRML viewers for win systems, there are Linux specific
plugins for VRML.. and Java works in both circumstances, dosn't make Linux
any different from windows.

Quote:
>  they want __ YOUR __ VRML__  to __ FAIL __ on machines ...
>   where the consumer has not paid the Microsoft Tax ...
>  These companies included : Microsoft & ParallelGraphics.
>  Using their non-standard-standards will make YOUR VRML FAIL on:
>  - the neatest, newest, fastest growing market segments including :

Parallelgraphics supports the full VRML specification *and* non-standard
*extensions*. you can write pure VRML and run it on cortona and cosmo and
most other plugins. or, if nescessary you can use the extra functionality of
Cortona and limit access to your content to users with Cortona. if this
extra functionality is required it is available, you don't have to use it,
and you don't have to develop content specifically for Cortona to have it
work on Cortona.
this extra functionality is actually a good thing....

Quote:
> The " New Internet Computer Company " -- Think NIC -- Linux Web Appliance
> --------------------------------------------- $200 -- Linux, doesn't Crash
> like windows.
>   http://www.*-*-*.com/
>   - YES: YOUR VRML works ( if you're not using non-standard
> ParallelGraphics )

see previous note on parallelgraphics extensions.

Quote:
>  The Web is open standards : HTML, XML, IP, VRML, Java, Linux.

see previous note relating to this comment (why repeat the same statement
like u have?)

Quote:
> | everyone connected to the Internet can directly
> | enter a virtual world __ without __ installing
> | a new kind of software. The VRML technology offers ...
> | interactive three-dimensional ... [ coming March 31, 2001 ]

this may not be your own words, but your use of the quote shows your
agreement. and on that i have to say you are wrong by your own words. the
following section of your post explains how ppl without "java installed" can
get it, yet the above quote says "__ without __ installing".

Quote:
>  Any computer connected to the web that doesn't have
> Java installed can get Java installed via the Web --
> and it will work even on  poorly designed, over-priced
> OSes that crash too often, and get viruses from e-mails.
>  " Train Game but{*filter*}YOU if you're not using MS Explorer "
>  -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>   http://www.*-*-*.com/

so they created VRML extensions that allow advanced interactivity above and
beyond the scope of the VRML specification, this allows better things to
some users, but does not dissallow all users from using the same basic VRML.

Quote:
>  This from a company that pretended to support the
> __ portable __  vendor & platform neutral
> Graphics Language ___ VRML ___ ! ! !

it supports such a language, as well as supporting vendor & platform
*specific* *extensions*. that does not void it from still supporting the
vendor & platform neutral VRML language.

Quote:
>  For portable animation on the Web ... use Java.

you don't have to use Java for a portable animation, just as users must have
a VRML plugin for pure VRML, so to must they have a Java plugin for a pure
Java solution, i chose the one that is faster and more efficient, the VRML
viewer that is platform specific.

Quote:
> ' EverQuest ' has more than a ~~~ 100,000 ~~~ _ subscribers _
> who both bought the game and pay a __ monthly fee __ ... to play:

and what was the program written in...
the WINDOWS API!

Quote:
>   The Web Grows ... and the Web API is ~ NOT ~ the Win API.

but the efficient 3d API is platform specific. that isn't nescessarily
windows, but whatever it is it ain't Java.

Quote:
>  If ... We want VRML and / or Java to succeed ...
> ...  We should use, support, and speak up for VRML & Java.

no if we want VRML to succeed we speak up for VRML, if we want Java to
succeed we speak up for Java. just because we want VRML dosn't automatically
imply we want/need Java.

Quote:
>  Java is more than applets, Java works on the Server,
> Client, and in Mobile and Embedded devices ... and
> Java has seen its biggest successes beyond the browser,
> but it grows & thrives in the browser as well ...

i think i'll keep my Java server side (i'm currently developing Java
Servlets, working on a threaded discussion board atm), saves all the hassle
of client side concerns.
db


Tue, 12 Aug 2003 13:39:40 GMT  
 Death of Java?

Quote:

> it's not from version 1.1.4.

Sorry, small clarification, should read "it's from version 1.1.4", or
something. What I mean is that MS can't touch or use java in any new
applications and they are only allowed to bug-fix their jvm prior to
Java version 1.1.4 in products that allready contain java (and they had
to provide Sun with a list of what software that is).

Cheers,
/Niclas



Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:11:25 GMT  
 Death of Java?
np, thanx for the clarification, i think thats how i read it neway
db


Tue, 12 Aug 2003 15:14:50 GMT  
 Death of Java?

Quote:
> >   HTML, IP, XML,  Linux, VRML & Java will survive & prevail.

> um... XML is an open file format format (yes i did mean to say it twice),
it
> was developed from HTML, dosn't mean it has anything to do with the web..

after an appreciated email i just thought i should post this correction:
Quote:
> from john skeet:
> It tends to be worth opening long cross-posts with some truth. XML was
> *not* developed from HTML - it was developed from SGML, *of which
> HTML
> is an application*.
> Starting off with HTML itself as a basis for XML would have been a
> *huge* mistake.



Tue, 12 Aug 2003 16:11:22 GMT  
 Death of Java?
We all like corrections...

I guess it's only fair to say that XHTML is an application of XML.

/Niclas

Quote:

> > >   HTML, IP, XML,  Linux, VRML & Java will survive & prevail.

> > um... XML is an open file format format (yes i did mean to say it twice),
> it
> > was developed from HTML, dosn't mean it has anything to do with the web..

> after an appreciated email i just thought i should post this correction:
> > from john skeet:
> > It tends to be worth opening long cross-posts with some truth. XML was
> > *not* developed from HTML - it was developed from SGML, *of which
> > HTML
> > is an application*.
> > Starting off with HTML itself as a basis for XML would have been a
> > *huge* mistake.

--
Niclas Olofsson - http://www.ismobile.com
Product Development, isMobile, Aurorum 2, S-977 75 Lule?, Sweden
Phone: +46(0)920-75550
Mobile: +46(0)70-3726404


Tue, 12 Aug 2003 21:18:31 GMT  
 
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