Customizing Viewdraw in Workview Office 7.3 ... Is it possible? 
Author Message
 Customizing Viewdraw in Workview Office 7.3 ... Is it possible?

Fellow ASIC designers, Help!

Our company has recently switched from the UNIX based Powerview
products to the M$ Windoze NT based Workview Office products
for cost reasons, but we were informed that the same capabilities
were built in to the PC products, namely, the same 'look' and
'feel', as well as the same level of customization via macros
(ViewScript, etc.)

Well, Viewdraw in Windoze NT and Viewdraw in UNIX are now two
very different programs; although, they used to be the same in
both DOS and UNIX when I last used Workview 4.1 ...

I have been told that the only customization which can be done
in Workview Office 7.3 (Viewdraw) is via the "Tools" Menu,
which seems to allow the user to add 'DOS' level executable
(batch) files to this menu.

While I believe that this is a nice feature to have in Viewdraw,
it is by no means anything close to what the Unix version of
Viewdraw allows you to do.  I have also been told by Viewlogic
customer support that key bindings are not supported, macros are
not supported, and ViewScript is not supported!  I find this hard
to believe, given the fact that Workview 4.x, which runs in DOS,
supports function key mapping and macro execution (and that
product came out more than 5 years ago!);  I hope that this
is not the case!

Has anyone out there been able to make the PC based Workview Office
Viewdraw product 'behave' like the UNIX Viewdraw product?  Why did
Viewlogic decide to diverge Viewdraw between UNIX & M$ Windoze?
What are the secrets to really using Viewdraw?  The new on-line
docs leave much to be desired compared to the well-documented
Unix version of Viewdraw, and the VCS product by Chronologic
(now, owned by Viewlogic) ...

I'm sure we're not the only company going through this CAE culture
shock!

PLEASE ADVISE!

(Note: The opinions expressed here ARE shared by many in this company!)

--
 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
 .                             .                                   .
 .   Tom Barraza               .    Telephone: (xxx) xxx-xxxx      .
 .   Senior Systems Designer   .    FAX:       (xxx) xxx-xxxx      .

 .                             .                                   .
 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .



Sun, 15 Aug 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Customizing Viewdraw in Workview Office 7.3 ... Is it possible?


Quote:
> Fellow ASIC designers, Help!

> Our company has recently switched from the UNIX based Powerview
> products to the M$ Windoze NT based Workview Office products
> for cost reasons, but we were informed that the same capabilities
> were built in to the PC products, namely, the same 'look' and
> 'feel', as well as the same level of customization via macros
> (ViewScript, etc.)

> Well, Viewdraw in Windoze NT and Viewdraw in UNIX are now two
> very different programs; although, they used to be the same in
> both DOS and UNIX when I last used Workview 4.1 ...

> I have been told that the only customization which can be done
> in Workview Office 7.3 (Viewdraw) is via the "Tools" Menu,
> which seems to allow the user to add 'DOS' level executable
> (batch) files to this menu.

> While I believe that this is a nice feature to have in Viewdraw,
> it is by no means anything close to what the Unix version of
> Viewdraw allows you to do.  I have also been told by Viewlogic
> customer support that key bindings are not supported, macros are
> not supported, and ViewScript is not supported!  I find this hard
> to believe, given the fact that Workview 4.x, which runs in DOS,
> supports function key mapping and macro execution (and that
> product came out more than 5 years ago!);  I hope that this
> is not the case!

> Has anyone out there been able to make the PC based Workview Office
> Viewdraw product 'behave' like the UNIX Viewdraw product?  Why did
> Viewlogic decide to diverge Viewdraw between UNIX & M$ Windoze?
> What are the secrets to really using Viewdraw?  The new on-line
> docs leave much to be desired compared to the well-documented
> Unix version of Viewdraw, and the VCS product by Chronologic
> (now, owned by Viewlogic) ...

> I'm sure we're not the only company going through this CAE culture
> shock!

> PLEASE ADVISE!

Well, OK.  Pretty much everything you have been told is true.  
You get no command line, no user macros, and so on.  If you
had used Pro Series for Windows you would be equally shocked.
For some perverse reason, Viewlogic crippled Workview Office
as far as expert level users are concerned.  I was heartily  
bummed when I found out the command line was gone.

It appears that the people who wrote/ported the old program
new a great deal about CAD software but were horrible Windows
programmers. It looks like Workview Office was developed by OK Windows
programmers who know nothing about CAD.

What I can't understand is why the BETA tester's input
was ignored.  I know for a fact the everyone was screaming
for them to keep the command line and the other features
but they chose not to.  Only Viewlogic knows why.

Oh yeah.  Wait till you try ViewSim.  You'll love the
performance un-enhancement.

Good Luck,

Jeff Hutchings



Sun, 15 Aug 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Customizing Viewdraw in Workview Office 7.3 ... Is it possible?

Quote:

> Fellow ASIC designers, Help!

> Our company has recently switched from the UNIX based Powerview
> products to the M$ Windoze NT based Workview Office products
> for cost reasons, but we were informed that the same capabilities
> were built in to the PC products, namely, the same 'look' and
> 'feel', as well as the same level of customization via macros
> (ViewScript, etc.)

Yeah we believed the salesman too! Not once, but twice over a period of
nine years.

Quote:
> Well, Viewdraw in Windoze NT and Viewdraw in UNIX are now two
> very different programs; although, they used to be the same in
> both DOS and UNIX when I last used Workview 4.1 ...

Yup. Actually the history (somewhat second hand but I have some evidence
of its veracity) is interesting. The first foray into windoze was 4.1
with a Visual Basic front end glued on by an outfit in Delhi India.
(Pro-Series). The current product looks about the same.

Quote:
> I have been told that the only customization which can be done
> in Workview Office 7.3 (Viewdraw) is via the "Tools" Menu,
> which seems to allow the user to add 'DOS' level executable
> (batch) files to this menu.

Actually, you can run any windoze app. In theory you could launch a
windoze app that used OLE to do what you would really have liked VD to
do but then it would probably be easier to just manipulate the .SCH
files directly. I have gotten so frustrated trying to create symbols
that it was easier to pop out and use a text editor!

Quote:

> While I believe that this is a nice feature to have in Viewdraw,
> it is by no means anything close to what the Unix version of
> Viewdraw allows you to do.  I have also been told by Viewlogic
> customer support that key bindings are not supported, macros are
> not supported, and ViewScript is not supported!  I find this hard
> to believe, given the fact that Workview 4.x, which runs in DOS,
> supports function key mapping and macro execution (and that
> product came out more than 5 years ago!);  I hope that this
> is not the case!

Believe it!

Quote:

> Has anyone out there been able to make the PC based Workview Office
> Viewdraw product 'behave' like the UNIX Viewdraw product?  

Can't be done.

Quote:
>Why did
> Viewlogic decide to diverge Viewdraw between UNIX & M$ Windoze?
> What are the secrets to really using Viewdraw?  The new on-line
> docs leave much to be desired compared to the well-documented
> Unix version of Viewdraw, and the VCS product by Chronologic
> (now, owned by Viewlogic) ...

We just today decided to cut our losses and canned the stuff altogether.

Quote:

> I'm sure we're not the only company going through this CAE culture
> shock!

> PLEASE ADVISE!

Sure am glad to know we were not the only ones who were having problems
as well.

Quote:

> (Note: The opinions expressed here ARE shared by many in this company!)

> --
>  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>  .                             .                                   .
>  .   Tom Barraza               .    Telephone: (xxx) xxx-xxxx      .
>  .   Senior Systems Designer   .    FAX:       (xxx) xxx-xxxx      .

>  .                             .                                   .
>  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Robert H. Owen
remove the # to mail

---------------------------------------------
Why did ViewLogic rename their products WorkView.
Because they finally admitted that one had to Work damn hard to View
anything.



Sun, 15 Aug 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Customizing Viewdraw in Workview Office 7.3 ... Is it possible?


Quote:

>> Fellow ASIC designers, Help!

>> Our company has recently switched from the UNIX based Powerview
>> products to the M$ Windoze NT based Workview Office products
>> for cost reasons, but we were informed that the same capabilities
>> were built in to the PC products, namely, the same 'look' and
>> 'feel', as well as the same level of customization via macros
>> (ViewScript, etc.)

>Well, OK.  Pretty much everything you have been told is true.  
>You get no command line, no user macros, and so on.  If you
>had used Pro Series for Windows you would be equally shocked.
>For some perverse reason, Viewlogic crippled Workview Office
>as far as expert level users are concerned.  I was heartily  
>bummed when I found out the command line was gone.

I used the original PC Powerview under OS/2 with 'far' better results
than running under Win 3.1.  Tried to bug the local office to shoot for
porting the UNIX version to OS/2, even to shipping a copy of OS/2 with
the program.  I think that the port would have been trivial, and some
of the features of OS/2 would provide enhancements that UNIX would
not match.

I have experience with ViewLogic / WorkView since version 0.8, even
before the UNIX port.

Ron Springer, independent design consultant



Mon, 16 Aug 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Customizing Viewdraw in Workview Office 7.3 ... Is it possible?

But, they kept the feature where a schematic always comes up
zoomed halfway out inside a small window within another small
window.  You still have to click in three different places to
bring up your schematic to a reasonable view.



Mon, 16 Aug 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Customizing Viewdraw in Workview Office 7.3 ... Is it possible?

Quote:

> But, they kept the feature where a schematic always comes up
> zoomed halfway out inside a small window within another small
> window.  You still have to click in three different places to
> bring up your schematic to a reasonable view.

Hah! but you must have 7.2 or earlier. 7.3 will zoom a sheet to the same
level as the last time you shut it down. Or you can do some exploring
and write a simple OLE controller as I did using Delphi 2.0 to not only
force a full image but to automatically load the last used file. Before
we dropped the product, I was about to expand it to allow me to start it
up with any chosen sheet.

Robert H. Owen
remove the # to email.



Mon, 16 Aug 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Customizing Viewdraw in Workview Office 7.3 ... Is it possible?

(people have been discussing the various "features" of Viewdraw,
especially the PC versions.)


Quote:
>force a full image but to automatically load the last used file. Before
>we dropped the product, I was about to expand it to allow me to start it
>up with any chosen sheet.

We're still back with version 5.1, we "upgraded" a few seats to vsn
6.0, but everyone else begs not to upgrade their machine.

It sounds like you've "dropped the product", what have you switched to?
For that matter, what does anyone else reading this use?

We are doing primarily XC4K designs, and are wondering if we should
start worrying about whether Procapture 5.1 (or Viewdraw, or whatever
the 'name de rev' is) will support moves to XC4kEX and other parts.
What's the current evaluation of Orcad and Aldec/Foundation?  Other
options?

thanks for any advice or comments-

--
  --al.

Quickware Engineering & Design,  225 Riverview Ave Waltham, MA, 02154-3874
W: 617-647-3800,  FAX: 617-647-3311   800-237-1185 for fast PDP-11's.



Tue, 17 Aug 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Customizing Viewdraw in Workview Office 7.3 ... Is it possible?


Quote:

>What I can't understand is why the BETA tester's input
>was ignored.  I know for a fact the everyone was screaming
>for them to keep the command line and the other features
>but they chose not to.  Only Viewlogic knows why.

Depends on whether View's current mgmt. considers their beta
program to be part of the SQA process or merely a sales too.

_______________________________________________________________________________
                                       |
        AXENHAMMER SYSTEMS             |        Arthur R. Marriott

                                       |
_______________________________________|_______________________________________

        If we're not supposed to see {*filter*} exposed on television,
                I guess they're going to have to pull the plug on C-SPAN...
_______________________________________________________________________________



Tue, 17 Aug 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Customizing Viewdraw in Workview Office 7.3 ... Is it possible?

Quote:


> > But, they kept the feature where a schematic always comes up
> > zoomed halfway out inside a small window within another small
> > window.  You still have to click in three different places to
> > bring up your schematic to a reasonable view.

> Hah! but you must have 7.2 or earlier. 7.3 will zoom a sheet to the same
> level as the last time you shut it down. Or you can do some exploring
> and write a simple OLE controller as I did using Delphi 2.0 to not only
> force a full image but to automatically load the last used file. Before
> we dropped the product, I was about to expand it to allow me to start it
> up with any chosen sheet.

> Robert H. Owen
> remove the # to email.

Can you elaborate on that bit about OLE, Robert?  Having done NO OLE
coding what do you reccomend for resources.  Does Viewlogic provide help
or hooks? Could you post an example script?

Kevin Steele



Fri, 20 Aug 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 Customizing Viewdraw in Workview Office 7.3 ... Is it possible?


: It appears that the people who wrote/ported the old program
: new a great deal about CAD software but were horrible Windows
: programmers. It looks like Workview Office was developed by OK Windows
: programmers who know nothing about CAD.

: What I can't understand is why the BETA tester's input
: was ignored.  I know for a fact the everyone was screaming
: for them to keep the command line and the other features
: but they chose not to.  Only Viewlogic knows why.

 I agree with all of this with the difference that I switched from
 Workview DOS to PROseries.  It was horrible!

: Oh yeah.  Wait till you try ViewSim.  You'll love the
: performance un-enhancement.

 And then try ViewSynthesis (if you can make it work).



Fri, 20 Aug 1999 03:00:00 GMT  
 
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