Am I on the right track? 
Author Message
 Am I on the right track?

I'm interested in writing an application in Scheme.  I'm new to Scheme,
so I'm looking for some help in making sure I'm on the right path.

I'm going to be writing a simulator, and would like to target Windows
and Linux.  It'll have graphics (probably just 2D, but hopefully some
animation).  It'll also have data entry requirements, of course, which
to me means dialogs.  I'm not sure as of yet if I'll need it to be
multithreaded, but that'd be nice, just in case.  As most of my recent
coding experience is in C++ and Java, and just because I'm quite fond
of the OO methodology, I'd like to have an implementation with objects.

My app will be Open Source, (probably GPL), and it'd be nice to have
tools that are Open Source as well.  My reasoning for this is a) Open
Source is Good :), and b) it looks like Scheme as a standard language
doesn't have all of the features needed for my app, and if the platform
I choose doesn't either, I'd like to be able to add it, if possible.

From what little bit of digging I've done, it looks like DrScheme fits
all of my requirements.  I saw a reference that said it's released
under LGPL, has objects, has a GUI & dialogs (via MrEd), and has
threads (via MzScheme), and it's available on Windows & Linux (and Mac,
too, just in case).  And it seems to be well documented and supported.

Any thoughts?  Any other implementations that I should consider?  One
thought that keeps nagging at me is Guile, but Guile sounds more like a
way to extend an existing app, and not a way to write the app to start
with.

I've also heard people mention that Common Lisp might be better for
larger applications, and I'm hoping that this sim might just one day
become a larger (for a PC app) program.  Does DrScheme scale well in
that regard?

Anyway, thanks in advance for any ideas or pointers that you might be
able to throw my way.

Regards,
Dave

Sent via Deja.com http://www.*-*-*.com/
Before you buy.



Sat, 19 Apr 2003 23:32:13 GMT  
 Am I on the right track?

Quote:

>I'm interested in writing an application in Scheme.  I'm new to Scheme,
>so I'm looking for some help in making sure I'm on the right path.

>I'm going to be writing a simulator, and would like to target Windows
>and Linux.  It'll have graphics (probably just 2D, but hopefully some
>animation).  It'll also have data entry requirements, of course, which
>to me means dialogs.  I'm not sure as of yet if I'll need it to be
>multithreaded, but that'd be nice, just in case.  As most of my recent
>coding experience is in C++ and Java, and just because I'm quite fond
>of the OO methodology, I'd like to have an implementation with objects.

Almost any Scheme implementation known to man runs SLIB, which contains
the (prototype based) Yasos object system. I like it, but it might
be slower than native object systems.

Guile has a Common Lisp-like object system with multimethods.
(But you can also use Yasos, or hack your own object system.)

DrScheme also has a native object system, but I'm not so familiar
with that one.

Quote:
>From what little bit of digging I've done, it looks like DrScheme fits
>all of my requirements.  I saw a reference that said it's released
>under LGPL, has objects, has a GUI & dialogs (via MrEd), and has
>threads (via MzScheme), and it's available on Windows & Linux (and Mac,
>too, just in case).  And it seems to be well documented and supported.

All this is very true, and explains why DrScheme is insanely great. ;-)

Quote:
>Any thoughts?  Any other implementations that I should consider?  One
>thought that keeps nagging at me is Guile, but Guile sounds more like a
>way to extend an existing app, and not a way to write the app to start
>with.

No, Guile can very well be used to produce stand-alone apps.

Points to note:

* Guile doesn't come with an IDE; DrScheme does.
* Guile is less well documented than DrScheme.
* Guile has a GUI binding over GTK, while DrScheme's GUI is based on
  (an older version of) WxWindows. This means that DrScheme's GUI
  looks less spiffy (not themeable like GTK), but has better
  multi-platform support. There is an experimental GTK port for
  Windows, but I'm not sure whether this works with Guile.

Note that the most recent versions of WxWindows can also run on
top of GTK, but AFAIK DrScheme doesn't yet run on those versions.

If Windows is important to you, I would go with DrScheme.

Quote:
>I've also heard people mention that Common Lisp might be better for
>larger applications, and I'm hoping that this sim might just one day
>become a larger (for a PC app) program.

I would tend to disagree. Common Lisp has more stuff in the standard,
but free CL implementations are IMHO lagging behind compared to
Scheme implementations like DrScheme and Guile.

Of course, it's different with commercial CL implementations, but that
is not very useful if you want the app to be free.

Quote:
>Does DrScheme scale well in
>that regard?

I think it does. DrScheme itself is already a rather large package,
and there are several large add-ons for it.

--
ir. Stephan H.M.J. Houben
tel. +31-40-2474358 / +31-40-2743497



Sun, 20 Apr 2003 00:18:40 GMT  
 Am I on the right track?

Quote:

> Anyway, thanks in advance for any ideas or pointers that you might be
> able to throw my way.

check out thud: http://www.glug.org/people/ttn/software/thud/
check out other guile projects: http://www.glug.org/projects/

thi



Sun, 20 Apr 2003 03:08:58 GMT  
 Am I on the right track?
In our last episode (Tue, 31 Oct 2000 15:32:13 GMT),
the artist formerly known as David Jaquay said:

Quote:
>I'm interested in writing an application in Scheme.  I'm new to Scheme,
>so I'm looking for some help in making sure I'm on the right path.

>I'm going to be writing a simulator, and would like to target Windows
>and Linux.  It'll have graphics (probably just 2D, but hopefully some
>animation).  It'll also have data entry requirements, of course, which
>to me means dialogs.  I'm not sure as of yet if I'll need it to be
>multithreaded, but that'd be nice, just in case.  As most of my recent
>coding experience is in C++ and Java, and just because I'm quite fond
>of the OO methodology, I'd like to have an implementation with objects.

Building a "method dispatcher" in Lisp is so spectacularly trivial
that the "implementation with objects" issue should Just Not Be An
Issue.

Common Lisp offers CLOS, which represents the Most Powerful Object
System, and most Schemes are starting to offer something based on
Meroon..

Quote:
>My app will be Open Source, (probably GPL), and it'd be nice to have
>tools that are Open Source as well.  My reasoning for this is a) Open
>Source is Good :), and b) it looks like Scheme as a standard language
>doesn't have all of the features needed for my app, and if the
>platform I choose doesn't either, I'd like to be able to add it, if
>possible.
>From what little bit of digging I've done, it looks like DrScheme
>fits all of my requirements.  I saw a reference that said it's
>released under LGPL, has objects, has a GUI & dialogs (via MrEd), and
>has threads (via MzScheme), and it's available on Windows & Linux
>(and Mac, too, just in case).  And it seems to be well documented and
>supported.

Likely a good choice, particularly if platform independence is
desired.

Quote:
>Any thoughts?  Any other implementations that I should consider?  One
>thought that keeps nagging at me is Guile, but Guile sounds more like
>a way to extend an existing app, and not a way to write the app to
>start with.

Guile is historically pretty slow, but is fairly featureful, and _is_
a full-fledged Scheme, so it certainly is an option.

Quote:
>I've also heard people mention that Common Lisp might be better for
>larger applications, and I'm hoping that this sim might just one day
>become a larger (for a PC app) program.  Does DrScheme scale well in
>that regard?

CL certainly has the merit that there are versions available that
readily compile to machine language.  Add in the advantage that a lot
of the functionality that people keep throwing at Scheme as extensions
come as Standard Functionality with CL.  CL tends to "scale" rather
better as you head towards Great Complexity...
--

<http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lisp.html>
Rules of the Evil Overlord #153. "My Legions of Terror will be an
equal-opportunity employer. Conversely, when it is prophesied that no
man can defeat me, I will keep in mind the increasing number of
non-traditional gender roles." <http://www.eviloverlord.com/>


Sun, 20 Apr 2003 09:28:02 GMT  
 Am I on the right track?

In our last episode (Tue, 31 Oct 2000 15:32:13 GMT),
the artist formerly known as David Jaquay said:

Quote:
>I'm interested in writing an application in Scheme.  I'm new to Scheme,
>so I'm looking for some help in making sure I'm on the right path.

>I'm going to be writing a simulator, and would like to target Windows
>and Linux.  It'll have graphics (probably just 2D, but hopefully some
>animation).  It'll also have data entry requirements, of course, which
>to me means dialogs.  I'm not sure as of yet if I'll need it to be
>multithreaded, but that'd be nice, just in case.  As most of my recent
>coding experience is in C++ and Java, and just because I'm quite fond
>of the OO methodology, I'd like to have an implementation with objects.

Building a "method dispatcher" in Lisp is so spectacularly trivial
that the "implementation with objects" issue should Just Not Be An
Issue.

Common Lisp offers CLOS, which represents the Most Powerful Object
System, and most Schemes are starting to offer something based on
Meroon..

Quote:
>My app will be Open Source, (probably GPL), and it'd be nice to have
>tools that are Open Source as well.  My reasoning for this is a) Open
>Source is Good :), and b) it looks like Scheme as a standard language
>doesn't have all of the features needed for my app, and if the
>platform I choose doesn't either, I'd like to be able to add it, if
>possible.
>From what little bit of digging I've done, it looks like DrScheme
>fits all of my requirements.  I saw a reference that said it's
>released under LGPL, has objects, has a GUI & dialogs (via MrEd), and
>has threads (via MzScheme), and it's available on Windows & Linux
>(and Mac, too, just in case).  And it seems to be well documented and
>supported.

Likely a good choice, particularly if platform independence is
desired.

Quote:
>Any thoughts?  Any other implementations that I should consider?  One
>thought that keeps nagging at me is Guile, but Guile sounds more like
>a way to extend an existing app, and not a way to write the app to
>start with.

Guile is historically pretty slow, but is fairly featureful, and _is_
a full-fledged Scheme, so it certainly is an option.

Quote:
>I've also heard people mention that Common Lisp might be better for
>larger applications, and I'm hoping that this sim might just one day
>become a larger (for a PC app) program.  Does DrScheme scale well in
>that regard?

CL certainly has the merit that there are versions available that
readily compile to machine language.  Add in the advantage that a lot
of the functionality that people keep throwing at Scheme as extensions
come as Standard Functionality with CL.  CL tends to "scale" rather
better as you head towards Great Complexity...
--

<http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lisp.html>
Rules of the Evil Overlord #153. "My Legions of Terror will be an
equal-opportunity employer. Conversely, when it is prophesied that no
man can defeat me, I will keep in mind the increasing number of
non-traditional gender roles." <http://www.eviloverlord.com/>


Sun, 20 Apr 2003 09:28:02 GMT  
 Am I on the right track?
Thanks very much for the info.  I'm thinking that DrScheme will be the
way I go.



Quote:
> Note that the most recent versions of WxWindows can also run on
> top of GTK, but AFAIK DrScheme doesn't yet run on those versions.

It'd be interesting to know if they plan to move up to recent versions,
but as long as the older code runs well, no reason it wouldn't be
useful.

Quote:
> If Windows is important to you, I would go with DrScheme.

The more I think about it, the more I think it is.  I prefer developing
under Linux at home, but there are times when I would only have access
to a Windows box, and most folks that'd want to use my sim will
probably be on Windows, too.

Thanks again,
Dave

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.



Mon, 21 Apr 2003 01:48:43 GMT  
 
 [ 6 post ] 

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