Good CS books 
Author Message
 Good CS books

Hello all.

I've thoroughly enjoyed reading the SICP thread. I decided to browse
this group and also comp.lang.lisp after reading Philip Greenspun's
book on web development and his recomendation of SICP.

I do not have the luxury of going to college and spending 4 years or
so getting a CS degree.  However, I would like to acquire a good
education by reading and studying good materials. This does allow me
the luxury of picking the materials from which I learn.

My computer education is somewhat going backwards, hopefully in order
to at some point make forward progress. :)

I started a few years ago wanting to learning programming. I read some
magazines in order to make a decision on language. I discovered that
"Prograph" (a visual/graphical language for the Macintosh) would save
me lot's of time over learning a difficult "low level" language like
C++. I bought the hype and purchased. Enjoyed the language. But, the
language is proprietary, only availabe on Mac and Win95, and didn't
save the developers of the language any time over C/C++. It's is
currently almost dead.

Realizing I wouldn't get anywhere with Prograph, I decided to bite the
bullet and learn C++. I purchased a wonderful, visual, save me the
pain IDE called Optima++. Great IDE. The tool was wonderful,
unfortunately it couldn't spare me from having to work with MFC and
Microsoft's code.

I have since also studied Python, Java and soon Tcl.

In all of my journeys I've learned that no matter how "nice" the
language or the tool is, as proclaimed by marketing, there still
should be a foundation of knowledge from which to procede.

I realize as I've read multitudes of good "language" books that there
are principles if I had already learned that would make proceding thru
these language books much easier. It would enable me to learn how to
the think in the language instead of how to think in the language and
how this particular cs principle works. In the case of alot of these
language books their goal is not the teaching of cs or how any certain
principle works but how it is done in their language..

Enough talk.

What are some suggestions for books to accompany SICP in my learning?
Either before or after. Any comments on the below books?

I've seen suggestions for:

Essentials of Programming Languages
by Daniel P. Friedman, Mitchell Wand, Christopher T. Haynes

Scheme and the Art of Programming
by George Springer, Daniel P. Friedman (Contributor)

The Little Schemer
The Seasoned Schemer
Friedman, Daniel P.

Thanks for any help.

Jimmie Houchin



Fri, 22 Mar 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Good CS books

Quote:

>[...]
> What are some suggestions for books to accompany SICP in my learning?
> Either before or after. Any comments on the below books?

  Sure. I've read all of them, since they were part of the core CS
  curriculum at Indiana University when I was there. They're all
  very good books, but the first one you listed is my favorite.

Quote:
> Essentials of Programming Languages
> by Daniel P. Friedman, Mitchell Wand, Christopher T. Haynes

  Excellent book. I was lucky enough to take Professor Friedman's
  programming language course a few years ago, and that course and
  this text has stuck in the back of my head ever since. In fact,
  i'm taking a mini-sabbatical from Java programming right now to
  work through it again. Basically, EOPL is all about how programming
  languages work and how you can implement them yourselves. On a
  more subtle level, it's about how you can take programs written
  in a functional manner and apply transformations to them. For
  instance, the interpreter in EOPL starts out in Scheme, but by
  the end is translated into VM assembly code.

  I've seen several references to the 2nd edition of EOPL being
  currently in production. It'll be interesting to see what new
  tricks the authors have up their sleeves 7 years later.

Quote:
> The Little Schemer
> The Seasoned Schemer
> Friedman, Daniel P.  

  (and Matthias Felleisen)

  These cover much of the material in EOPL, but in a more
  interactive, fun way. Plus you have to love books that
  both have cartoon hippos and cover the Y Combinator. ;-)

  Check out "A Little Java, A Few Patterns" by the same
  authors as well. It was written in the same style.

  I'll also second Jonathan Coupe's recommendation of "On Lisp".
  It's goes over a lot of interesting topics you normally don't
  see covered. The only downside is that most of it is written
  in Common Lisp, which entails a bit of culture shock if you're
  used to Scheme.

_Ken Rawlings

 http://www.bluemarble.net/~krawling



Fri, 22 Mar 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Good CS books


Quote:
> Hello all.

> I've thoroughly enjoyed reading the SICP thread. I decided to browse
> this group and also comp.lang.lisp after reading Philip Greenspun's
> book on web development and his recomendation of SICP.

> I do not have the luxury of going to college and spending 4 years or
> so getting a CS degree.  However, I would like to acquire a good
> education by reading and studying good materials. This does allow me
> the luxury of picking the materials from which I learn.

> My computer education is somewhat going backwards, hopefully in order
> to at some point make forward progress. :)

> I started a few years ago wanting to learning programming. I read some
> magazines in order to make a decision on language. I discovered that
> "Prograph" (a visual/graphical language for the Macintosh) would save
> me lot's of time over learning a difficult "low level" language like
> C++. I bought the hype and purchased. Enjoyed the language. But, the
> language is proprietary, only availabe on Mac and Win95, and didn't
> save the developers of the language any time over C/C++. It's is
> currently almost dead.

> Realizing I wouldn't get anywhere with Prograph, I decided to bite the
> bullet and learn C++. I purchased a wonderful, visual, save me the
> pain IDE called Optima++. Great IDE. The tool was wonderful,
> unfortunately it couldn't spare me from having to work with MFC and
> Microsoft's code.

> I have since also studied Python, Java and soon Tcl.

> In all of my journeys I've learned that no matter how "nice" the
> language or the tool is, as proclaimed by marketing, there still
> should be a foundation of knowledge from which to procede.

> I realize as I've read multitudes of good "language" books that there
> are principles if I had already learned that would make proceding thru
> these language books much easier. It would enable me to learn how to
> the think in the language instead of how to think in the language and
> how this particular cs principle works. In the case of alot of these
> language books their goal is not the teaching of cs or how any certain
> principle works but how it is done in their language..

> Enough talk.

> What are some suggestions for books to accompany SICP in my learning?
> Either before or after. Any comments on the below books?

> I've seen suggestions for:

> Essentials of Programming Languages
> by Daniel P. Friedman, Mitchell Wand, Christopher T. Haynes

> Scheme and the Art of Programming
> by George Springer, Daniel P. Friedman (Contributor)

> The Little Schemer
> The Seasoned Schemer
> Friedman, Daniel P.

    Jimmie,

      The above 3 books are all very nice!! Good luck on your
    self learning. Sounds like you have a much better attitude than
    a lot of people going through a CS program!!

    Vasili

Quote:

> Thanks for any help.

> Jimmie Houchin

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.


Sat, 23 Mar 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Good CS books


Quote:

> What are some suggestions for books to accompany SICP in my learning?

John Bentley's "Programming Pearls" is one obvious choice. It's a short and
very insightful book. It comes from a very different - arguably opposite-
programming culture from SICP (the Bell Labs culture that gave birth to C
and Unix.) The two books taken together should present a nice range of
intelligent but different thinking.

I'd also suggest Steve McConnels' "Code Complete" -  a big thick manual
about effective design, documentation, software quality assurance, and
debugging, etc. Again, its oriented to C-ish languages.

If you intend to use C++ professionally, I'd strongly advise you to read
Scott Meyers "Effective C++." It's an essential safety manual.

For the Lisp family, Paul Graham's "On Lisp" has me fascinated right now. It
is tilted more towards CL than Scheme, if that matters.

Jonathan Coupe



Sat, 23 Mar 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Good CS books

Quote:
>  I'll also second Jonathan Coupe's recommendation of "On Lisp".
>  It's goes over a lot of interesting topics you normally don't
>  see covered. The only downside is that most of it is written
>  in Common Lisp, which entails a bit of culture shock if you're
>  used to Scheme.

It is interesting how many chapters present significant amounts of Scheme
code, particularly in the sections dealing with nondeterminism...
--
"Consistency is the single most important aspect of *ideology.*




Sat, 23 Mar 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Good CS books


Quote:
>  I'll also second Jonathan Coupe's recommendation of "On Lisp".
>  It's goes over a lot of interesting topics you normally don't
>  see covered. The only downside is that most of it is written
>  in Common Lisp, which entails a bit of culture shock if you're
>  used to Scheme.

It is interesting how many chapters present significant amounts of Scheme
code, particularly in the sections dealing with nondeterminism...
--
"Consistency is the single most important aspect of *ideology.*




Sat, 23 Mar 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Good CS books

Quote:

> What are some suggestions for books to accompany SICP in my learning?
> Either before or after. Any comments on the below books?

Besides the mandatory Scheme/Lisp books, I would suggest:

- Concurrent Programming in Erlang, Armstrong et al.
- Purely Functional Data Structures, C. Okasaki
- Functional Programming and Parallel Graph Rewriting, Plasmejer & van
Eekelen (you can download it from
http://www.cs.kun.nl/~clean/publications.html#1993)



Sat, 23 Mar 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Good CS books
In addition to the other books mentioned, I have found Bertrand Meyer's
"Object Oriented Software Construction" to be very useful. It is based
on Eiffel, but does a good enough job of discussing general principles
that it is in fact very useful even if you never touch Eiffel. Of
course, it is very much grounded in OOP/imperative style. (SICP is a
good first choice, because having the grounding in multiple styles, you
are better prepared to deal with texts devoted to a single particular
style.)

Also for C++, in addition to Effective C++ (and its companion More
Effective C++), look at Eckel's Thinking in C++ and Coplien's Advanced
C++. NONE of these C++ books is worth a damn for general CS principles.
They are all about the hairy grungy details of C++. But you mentioned
C++, so...



Sat, 23 Mar 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Good CS books

First off I own all 3 of the books listed below.  I will give you a bit
of a rundown on each.

Quote:
> Essentials of Programming Languages
> by Daniel P. Friedman, Mitchell Wand, Christopher T. Haynes

First of all, if you are a beginner at all this is _not_ the book
for you!  This book is meant as a Junior-Senior level textbook as an
introduction to what the title says.  The code through the book leads
students through the rudementary design of an interpretor written in
Scheme.  Not the easiest of material to follow at any level and
especially if you consider yourself a beginner.  This textbook is used
(appropriately enough!) at Indiana University in C311 - Programming
Languages and Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology - CS304 - Programming
Language Concepts, plus multiple other universities.  Excellent book,
but has a rather specific purpose in my opinion

Quote:
> Scheme and the Art of Programming
> by George Springer, Daniel P. Friedman (Contributor)

Excellent introduction to programming.  This books is used at Indiana
University as their introductory course to computer science.  Teaches
solid fundamentals and basics, but does progress nicely.  The later
chapters of the book are non-trivial for a beginner and can challenge
most seasoned programmers to an extent.  Worth picking up a copy in
my opinion.

Quote:
> The Little Schemer
> The Seasoned Schemer
> Friedman, Daniel P.

I own The Little Schemer and am personally a bit disappointed in it.
Perhaps it is the fact that I am used to a _very_ different approach
to presenting programming languages.  The format of the book is rather
radically different than any other that I have ever seen.  I would
personally not recommend this book until you have actually had a chance
to look through a copy and see if you like the style that it is written
in.  Albeit the example code in the book is rather excellent. (As is the
code in Scheme and the Art of Computer Programming.)

The Scheme Programming Language  (ANSI Scheme) (Second Edition)
Dybvig, Kent R.
Prentice Hall

This book should be purchased as a reference along with any other
books you are pursuing.  The name says it all and is virtually the only
existing book of its kind.  As an added bonus this book is now online:

http://www.scheme.com/tspl2d/index.html

Another online book you may want to look at is from the University of Texas:

ftp://ftp.cs.utexas.edu/pub/garbage/cs345/schintro-v14/schintro_toc.html

Enjoy,

Aaron Eppert



Sat, 23 Mar 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Good CS books


Quote:

>>[...]
>> What are some suggestions for books to accompany SICP in my learning?
>> Either before or after. Any comments on the below books?

>  Sure. I've read all of them, since they were part of the core CS
>  curriculum at Indiana University when I was there. They're all
>  very good books, but the first one you listed is my favorite.

>> Essentials of Programming Languages
>> by Daniel P. Friedman, Mitchell Wand, Christopher T. Haynes

>  Excellent book. I was lucky enough to take Professor Friedman's
>  programming language course a few years ago, and that course and
>  this text has stuck in the back of my head ever since. In fact,
>  i'm taking a mini-sabbatical from Java programming right now to
>  work through it again. Basically, EOPL is all about how programming
>  languages work and how you can implement them yourselves. On a
>  more subtle level, it's about how you can take programs written
>  in a functional manner and apply transformations to them. For
>  instance, the interpreter in EOPL starts out in Scheme, but by
>  the end is translated into VM assembly code.

>  I've seen several references to the 2nd edition of EOPL being
>  currently in production. It'll be interesting to see what new
>  tricks the authors have up their sleeves 7 years later.

Sounds great. As I haven't worked thru the other books yet. I'll wait
for the 2nd ed.

I can see why Schemers.com lists this after SICP.

Quote:
>> The Little Schemer
>> The Seasoned Schemer
>> Friedman, Daniel P.  

>  (and Matthias Felleisen)

Oops, you are correct. The place I got the information and copied and
pasted did not have any of the contributing authors. Should have went
to Amazon.

Amazon list this
The Little Schemer
by Daniel P. Friedman, Matthias Felleisen (Contributor), Duane Bibby
(Illustrator), Gerald J. Sussman

and this

The Seasoned Schemer
by Daniel P. Friedman, Matthias Felleisen (Contributor), Duane Bibby
(Illustrator)

I want to give credit where credit is due.

Quote:
>  These cover much of the material in EOPL, but in a more
>  interactive, fun way. Plus you have to love books that
>  both have cartoon hippos and cover the Y Combinator. ;-)

>  Check out "A Little Java, A Few Patterns" by the same
>  authors as well. It was written in the same style.

I have a few Java books but nothing on patterns yet. If I get back
into some Java I'll give them a look.

Quote:
>  I'll also second Jonathan Coupe's recommendation of "On Lisp".
>  It's goes over a lot of interesting topics you normally don't
>  see covered. The only downside is that most of it is written
>  in Common Lisp, which entails a bit of culture shock if you're
>  used to Scheme.

Thanks again.
Have a great day.

Jimmie Houchin

- Show quoted text -

Quote:
>_Ken Rawlings

> http://www.bluemarble.net/~krawling



Sat, 23 Mar 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Good CS books
Hello,

I agree OOSC 2nd ed. is the one I have. I started reading it and it is
a great book. I decided however that I needed to get some more basic
stuff under my belt.

I am definitely deficient in my understanding of multiple programming
styles. I look forward to expanding my knowledge.

Great C++ books suggested also.

Thanks again.
Have a great day.

Jimmie Houchin

Quote:

>In addition to the other books mentioned, I have found Bertrand Meyer's
>"Object Oriented Software Construction" to be very useful. It is based
>on Eiffel, but does a good enough job of discussing general principles
>that it is in fact very useful even if you never touch Eiffel. Of
>course, it is very much grounded in OOP/imperative style. (SICP is a
>good first choice, because having the grounding in multiple styles, you
>are better prepared to deal with texts devoted to a single particular
>style.)
>Also for C++, in addition to Effective C++ (and its companion More
>Effective C++), look at Eckel's Thinking in C++ and Coplien's Advanced
>C++. NONE of these C++ books is worth a damn for general CS principles.
>They are all about the hairy grungy details of C++. But you mentioned
>C++, so...



Sat, 23 Mar 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Good CS books
Thanks for the reply.

I'll browse Amazon later and look at these books.

I'm not really very familiar with Erlang. I'll have to go check it out
on the 99 bottles of beer language comparison page. :)

Thanks again.
Have a great day.

Jimmie Houchin

On Tue, 05 Oct 1999 09:27:26 +0200, Fernando Mato Mira

Quote:


>> What are some suggestions for books to accompany SICP in my learning?
>> Either before or after. Any comments on the below books?

>Besides the mandatory Scheme/Lisp books, I would suggest:

>- Concurrent Programming in Erlang, Armstrong et al.
>- Purely Functional Data Structures, C. Okasaki
>- Functional Programming and Parallel Graph Rewriting, Plasmejer & van
>Eekelen (you can download it from
>http://www.cs.kun.nl/~clean/publications.html#1993)



Sat, 23 Mar 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Good CS books

[big snip]

Quote:
>> I've seen suggestions for:

>> Essentials of Programming Languages
>> by Daniel P. Friedman, Mitchell Wand, Christopher T. Haynes

>> Scheme and the Art of Programming
>> by George Springer, Daniel P. Friedman (Contributor)

>> The Little Schemer
>> The Seasoned Schemer
>> Friedman, Daniel P.

>    Jimmie,

>      The above 3 books are all very nice!! Good luck on your
>    self learning. Sounds like you have a much better attitude than
>    a lot of people going through a CS program!!

Thanks!

Attitude is everything. A great attitude can make most anything
better.

Have a great day.

Jimmie Houchin

- Show quoted text -

Quote:
>    Vasili
>> Jimmie Houchin



Sat, 23 Mar 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Good CS books
Thanks to all who made many great suggestions.

I just noticed that in my studying of languages that a significant
part of my studies were spent in trying to understand the CS behind
the discussion without the benefit of it being taught the CS.

I could learn how Java, C++, Python, etc. created various data
structures without really understanding the philosophy behind the data
structures.

I found this to slow down my reading of these books and also my
understanding.

I agree whole heartedly with the premise in the SICP thread that if
one is well grounded in foundational CS then language issues will be
so much easier.

Once again, thanks. Your suggestions will help me to acquire the
foundation I seek.

Jimmie Houchin



Sat, 23 Mar 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 Good CS books
Hi,

Thanks for the Programming Pearls suggestion. It looks great. In an
Amazon search it shows a new version is imminent. I'll get it.

Code  Complete, I have heard of and good things. Another good
suggestion.

Great C++ suggestions. As I currently have some control on the
language I choose within the parameters of what I wish to develop I
have the luxury of holding off of C++ unless it becomes necessary. I
only see that happening if and when I become an employeed programmer
and it's  my employers choice of languages.

On Lisp also looks very good.

Thanks again.

Have a great day.

Jimmie Houchin

On Tue, 5 Oct 1999 00:35:07 +0100, "Jonathan"

Quote:



>> What are some suggestions for books to accompany SICP in my learning?

>John Bentley's "Programming Pearls" is one obvious choice. It's a short and
>very insightful book. It comes from a very different - arguably opposite-
>programming culture from SICP (the Bell Labs culture that gave birth to C
>and Unix.) The two books taken together should present a nice range of
>intelligent but different thinking.

>I'd also suggest Steve McConnels' "Code Complete" -  a big thick manual
>about effective design, documentation, software quality assurance, and
>debugging, etc. Again, its oriented to C-ish languages.

>If you intend to use C++ professionally, I'd strongly advise you to read
>Scott Meyers "Effective C++." It's an essential safety manual.

>For the Lisp family, Paul Graham's "On Lisp" has me fascinated right now. It
>is tilted more towards CL than Scheme, if that matters.

>Jonathan Coupe



Sat, 23 Mar 2002 03:00:00 GMT  
 
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