Off topic - but who'll notice? 
Author Message
 Off topic - but who'll notice?

I'd like to start off by stating that I've been reading this newsgroup for a
while now and I enjoy helping others when I can.  In addition to that, I
usually learn something new everyday.

However, I have noticed that this group is saturated by posts that simply
don't apply to the C# language itself.  This makes having dozens of other
dotnet newsgroups pointless.  Just glancing through the posts for the last
few hours you can see subjects like:

"SQL parameter fetching"
"Dateset and Crystal Report"
"Get .zip file using HttpWebResponse"
"Add item 2 listbox with tab (\t)"

Today is not the exception either...it's everyday.

Surely the Framework, ADONet, WindowsForms etc... newsgroups are more
applicable for these types of questions.  I hope you all agree that sifting
through 70% of the messages just to get to some that apply to the topic is a
waste of everyone's time and defeats the purpose of subscribing to a
specific topic.

I implore everyone to take a quick read of the newsgroup rules and make your
best attempts to adhere to them...as well as encourage others to do the
same.

http://www.*-*-*.com/

Respectfully,
ShaneB



Mon, 13 Dec 2004 02:09:42 GMT  
 Off topic - but who'll notice?


Quote:
> I'd like to start off by stating that I've been reading this newsgroup for
a
> while now and I enjoy helping others when I can.  In addition to that, I
> usually learn something new everyday.

> However, I have noticed that this group is saturated by posts that simply
> don't apply to the C# language itself.  This makes having dozens of other
> dotnet newsgroups pointless.  Just glancing through the posts for the last
> few hours you can see subjects like:

> "SQL parameter fetching"
> "Dateset and Crystal report"
> "Get .zip file using HttpWebResponse"
> "Add item 2 listbox with tab (\t)"

> Today is not the exception either...it's everyday.

> Surely the Framework, ADONet, WindowsForms etc... newsgroups are more
> applicable for these types of questions.  I hope you all agree that
sifting
> through 70% of the messages just to get to some that apply to the topic is
a
> waste of everyone's time and defeats the purpose of subscribing to a
> specific topic.

> I implore everyone to take a quick read of the newsgroup rules and make
your
> best attempts to adhere to them...as well as encourage others to do the
> same.

> http://communities.microsoft.com/home/rules.asp

Unfortunately, most of the other groups are dead (or not working?).

This group seems to be where all the smart people are and, more importantly
where the people are that actually respond to questions!

-c



Mon, 13 Dec 2004 02:16:14 GMT  
 Off topic - but who'll notice?
Shane,

    That page seems to not exist on the microsoft website.

    This issue has come up before.  IMO however, I think that some leeway
here should be given because if this were purely a C# language group, there
would be maybe 10 posts a month, max.  Combine this with the fact that C#
isn't really anything without the framework and I think that it produces
enough of a grey area where most of these questions are acceptable.

    Granted, some of these questions might be better off in other groups
which might cater to that subject matter more, but in the end, they arent
spam (some of them are, and are deleted), or completely off topic (some are,
like how to create a stored procedure, for example).  I think that most
people come here with good intentions, and I, for one, don't mind helping
out as many as I can.

    Hey, if not for anything else, I get exposed to a wide variety of things
(in the programming world), that I might not normally get in the more
specialized groups.

    Anyways, just my $0.02.

--
               - Nicholas Paldino [.NET MVP]


Quote:
> I'd like to start off by stating that I've been reading this newsgroup for
a
> while now and I enjoy helping others when I can.  In addition to that, I
> usually learn something new everyday.

> However, I have noticed that this group is saturated by posts that simply
> don't apply to the C# language itself.  This makes having dozens of other
> dotnet newsgroups pointless.  Just glancing through the posts for the last
> few hours you can see subjects like:

> "SQL parameter fetching"
> "Dateset and Crystal report"
> "Get .zip file using HttpWebResponse"
> "Add item 2 listbox with tab (\t)"

> Today is not the exception either...it's everyday.

> Surely the Framework, ADONet, WindowsForms etc... newsgroups are more
> applicable for these types of questions.  I hope you all agree that
sifting
> through 70% of the messages just to get to some that apply to the topic is
a
> waste of everyone's time and defeats the purpose of subscribing to a
> specific topic.

> I implore everyone to take a quick read of the newsgroup rules and make
your
> best attempts to adhere to them...as well as encourage others to do the
> same.

> http://communities.microsoft.com/home/rules.asp

> Respectfully,
> ShaneB



Mon, 13 Dec 2004 02:15:47 GMT  
 Off topic - but who'll notice?
Chad,
    I see.  That is a shame if they aren't working and I hope that isn't the
case.

Coming here is akin to tuning into a rock station and hearing a rap song
every third song :)

ShaneB

Quote:
> Unfortunately, most of the other groups are dead (or not working?).

> This group seems to be where all the smart people are and, more
importantly
> where the people are that actually respond to questions!

> -c



Mon, 13 Dec 2004 02:25:45 GMT  
 Off topic - but who'll notice?
Shane,

    There is actually a lot of good rap out there.  The rap (no pun
intended) that rap artists get is akin to the rap that VB6 developers get.

    God, I crack myself up sometimes.

    There is a lot of good rap out there though.  I'll be the first to admit
it.

--
               - Nicholas Paldino [.NET MVP]


Quote:
> Chad,
>     I see.  That is a shame if they aren't working and I hope that isn't
the
> case.

> Coming here is akin to tuning into a rock station and hearing a rap song
> every third song :)

> ShaneB

> > Unfortunately, most of the other groups are dead (or not working?).

> > This group seems to be where all the smart people are and, more
> importantly
> > where the people are that actually respond to questions!

> > -c



Mon, 13 Dec 2004 02:26:50 GMT  
 Off topic - but who'll notice?

shane, people are people, i hear ya on the off-subject stuff, it's rediculous.  and the other groups are not "broke", they work and people, like myself and probalby you, read/respond to posts.
      _________________
      Terry Mulvany
      iStartSchool, Inc.
      626.795.8765


  I'd like to start off by stating that I've been reading this newsgroup for a
  while now and I enjoy helping others when I can.  In addition to that, I
  usually learn something new everyday.

  However, I have noticed that this group is saturated by posts that simply
  don't apply to the C# language itself.  This makes having dozens of other
  dotnet newsgroups pointless.  Just glancing through the posts for the last
  few hours you can see subjects like:

  "SQL parameter fetching"
  "Dateset and Crystal report"
  "Get .zip file using HttpWebResponse"
  "Add item 2 listbox with tab (\t)"

  Today is not the exception either...it's everyday.

  Surely the Framework, ADONet, WindowsForms etc... newsgroups are more
  applicable for these types of questions.  I hope you all agree that sifting
  through 70% of the messages just to get to some that apply to the topic is a
  waste of everyone's time and defeats the purpose of subscribing to a
  specific topic.

  I implore everyone to take a quick read of the newsgroup rules and make your
  best attempts to adhere to them...as well as encourage others to do the
  same.

  http://communities.microsoft.com/home/rules.asp

  Respectfully,
  ShaneB



Mon, 13 Dec 2004 02:37:31 GMT  
 Off topic - but who'll notice?
I just went to that page...the link worked for me.  The same rules are also
posted here:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=%2Fsupport%2Fnews%2Fru...
sp

I see your points and I agree that there has to be some leeway with regard
to off-topic posts.  I always expect to see some off-topic posts and
discussions in newsgroups but it's just the sheer volume of them on here
that bothered me a bit.  I guess I'm accustomed to the Borland newsgroups
where things are more in-tune with the topic and are essentially regulated
by the users themselves.  On those newsgroups, off-topic posts are generally
replied to by redirecting the user to the appropriate newsgroup, and if
applicable, posting the answer there instead.

I'll just have to adjust I suppose.

Thanks for the response :)
ShaneB



Mon, 13 Dec 2004 02:39:44 GMT  
 Off topic - but who'll notice?
Hello Chad

...as far as I know, the other groups aren't dead but can't be refreshed by
a wide range of users. I my case, deleting the groups, *closing OE*,
restarting it and resubmitting the groups worked fine - but it's not a great
help to post it as the people with the problem can't read it ;-)

Regards

Philipp

Quote:
> Unfortunately, most of the other groups are dead (or not working?).

> This group seems to be where all the smart people are and, more
importantly
> where the people are that actually respond to questions!

> -c



Mon, 13 Dec 2004 02:40:35 GMT  
 Off topic - but who'll notice?
lol

I meant nothing against rap of course :)

ShaneB



Quote:
> Shane,

>     There is actually a lot of good rap out there.  The rap (no pun
> intended) that rap artists get is akin to the rap that VB6 developers get.

>     God, I crack myself up sometimes.

>     There is a lot of good rap out there though.  I'll be the first to
admit
> it.

> --
>                - Nicholas Paldino [.NET MVP]




Mon, 13 Dec 2004 02:41:08 GMT  
 Off topic - but who'll notice?
I had similar problems until I changed my news server to news.microsoft.com.
I'm not sure what server you're using, but that may help.

ShaneB

Quote:
> Hello Chad

> ...as far as I know, the other groups aren't dead but can't be refreshed
by
> a wide range of users. I my case, deleting the groups, *closing OE*,
> restarting it and resubmitting the groups worked fine - but it's not a
great
> help to post it as the people with the problem can't read it ;-)

> Regards

> Philipp



Mon, 13 Dec 2004 02:43:26 GMT  
 Off topic - but who'll notice?
Shane,

    A few people here have done that (redirecting posts).  Honestly, I
prefer not to do it.  Like I said, for me, if it forces me to learn
something new, then I am all for it.

--
               - Nicholas Paldino [.NET MVP]


Quote:
> I just went to that page...the link worked for me.  The same rules are
also
> posted here:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=%2Fsupport%2Fnews%2Fru...
Quote:
> sp

> I see your points and I agree that there has to be some leeway with regard
> to off-topic posts.  I always expect to see some off-topic posts and
> discussions in newsgroups but it's just the sheer volume of them on here
> that bothered me a bit.  I guess I'm accustomed to the Borland newsgroups
> where things are more in-tune with the topic and are essentially regulated
> by the users themselves.  On those newsgroups, off-topic posts are
generally
> replied to by redirecting the user to the appropriate newsgroup, and if
> applicable, posting the answer there instead.

> I'll just have to adjust I suppose.

> Thanks for the response :)
> ShaneB



Mon, 13 Dec 2004 02:53:50 GMT  
 Off topic - but who'll notice?
watch it shane, you're getting off-topic


Mon, 13 Dec 2004 03:01:55 GMT  
 Off topic - but who'll notice?
You're right and I was certain someone would point it out before this thread
was over.  Note that I at least announced that this thread would be
off-topic thereby allowing users to skip it safely; knowing that it had
nothing to do with C#.  That should count for something.

ShaneB


Quote:
> watch it shane, you're getting off-topic



Mon, 13 Dec 2004 03:56:49 GMT  
 Off topic - but who'll notice?
Actually, it's more like having a CD with mixed music and you have to skip
every third song because it's not the kind you like.

I think posts that are WAY off (like how do you declare an integer in Visual
Basic) are properly redirected.  Others that are related in an ancillary way
are perfectly acceptable here, IMO.  They're easy enough to skip.  I don't
even read all the on-topic posts in the sake of time.  They're easy enough
to skip.  If you don't want to learn about framework issues here, then
don't.  They're easy enough to skip.

Ok, I'm being sarcastic.  Consider this:  MS has two development certs - one
which is more a demonstration of knowledge of a language, and one that is
more demonstration of knowledge of how to architect a solution.  But even a
person with the latter one is going to probably be focused on one language.
My point is that if you think of this group as one for solution architects
that happen to specialize in C#, rather than purely about C#, I think some
of the apparent off-topic posts make more sense.

--
Daniel Billingsley, MCP
Programmer/Analyst/System Administrator
The Durcon Company
======================================


Quote:
> Chad,
>     I see.  That is a shame if they aren't working and I hope that isn't
the
> case.

> Coming here is akin to tuning into a rock station and hearing a rap song
> every third song :)

> ShaneB

> > Unfortunately, most of the other groups are dead (or not working?).

> > This group seems to be where all the smart people are and, more
> importantly
> > where the people are that actually respond to questions!

> > -c



Mon, 13 Dec 2004 05:37:27 GMT  
 Off topic - but who'll notice?
I agree that if you don't want to read something, it's easy enough to skip
(and I do).

When I posted the original message, I assumed that the problem was of
general laziness.  ie: "Why post to the other groups when someone will
probably answer me here...whether I'm off-topic or not."  Chad said that
this is basically the only group with activity so I can -somewhat-
understand why people don't post to the other groups.  Of course, the
flipside to that argument is that if the rules were enforced here, the other
groups' activity would increase.

I also agree that many of the topics could be considered C# related in a
broader sense...and I just have to look at the group in the "solution" sense
and not the C# sense, as you said.

BTW: I didn't even mention the unnecessary attachments, adverti{*filter*}ts,
overquoting when replying etc...which are normally frowned upon in other
regulated newsgroups.

I'm over it :)
ShaneB


Quote:
> Actually, it's more like having a CD with mixed music and you have to skip
> every third song because it's not the kind you like.

> I think posts that are WAY off (like how do you declare an integer in
Visual
> Basic) are properly redirected.  Others that are related in an ancillary
way
> are perfectly acceptable here, IMO.  They're easy enough to skip.  I don't
> even read all the on-topic posts in the sake of time.  They're easy enough
> to skip.  If you don't want to learn about framework issues here, then
> don't.  They're easy enough to skip.

> Ok, I'm being sarcastic.  Consider this:  MS has two development certs -
one
> which is more a demonstration of knowledge of a language, and one that is
> more demonstration of knowledge of how to architect a solution.  But even
a
> person with the latter one is going to probably be focused on one
language.
> My point is that if you think of this group as one for solution architects
> that happen to specialize in C#, rather than purely about C#, I think some
> of the apparent off-topic posts make more sense.

> --
> Daniel Billingsley, MCP
> Programmer/Analyst/System Administrator
> The Durcon Company



Mon, 13 Dec 2004 06:39:13 GMT  
 
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