Russian Ruby resource and Ruby Course 
Author Message
 Russian Ruby resource and Ruby Course

Hi all,

A Russian-language Ruby resource has been started - http://www.*-*-*.com/

Currently it contains materials of a Ruby course which was developed and
led in Minsk, Belarus, by Alexander Bokovoy and me. The course consists
of 6 seminars.  It only targets the language, its design and built-in
classes. We plan to develop supplementary seminars, devoted to certain
libraries or/and technologies.

Even if Russian is not your mother tongue, you can see what
the course is looking at code examples - the language we all understand
well ;-)

The sofware used during the course is a custom AltLinux
(www.altlinux.ru) distribution which boots from a CD, starts
XFree86, WMaker, and has various Ruby packages.

Also, there is an unfinished translation of the Ruby FAQ into Russian
on the site.

--
Best regards,
Yuri Leikind

"... 5 years from now everyone will be running free
GNU on their 200 MIPS, 64M SPARCstation-5."

Andy Tanenbaum to Linus Torvalds
in comp.lang.minix on Jan 1, 1992
http://www.*-*-*.com/ %40star.cs.vu.nl



Sun, 21 Aug 2005 22:57:59 GMT  
 Russian Ruby resource and Ruby Course

Quote:

>Hi all,

>A Russian-language Ruby resource has been started - http://ruby.iatp.by

>Currently it contains materials of a Ruby course which was developed and
>led in Minsk, Belarus, by Alexander Bokovoy and me. The course consists
>of 6 seminars.  It only targets the language, its design and built-in
>classes. We plan to develop supplementary seminars, devoted to certain
>libraries or/and technologies.

>Even if Russian is not your mother tongue, you can see what
>the course is looking at code examples - the language we all understand
>well ;-)

Horosho!

Hey, how come 'Ruby' is spelled 'Ruby' on your slides ? ;-)
Actually, I would have thought it would look like:
PybN (turn the 'N' around, and I know the 'b' isn't the right one (that's
the 'v' sound) but I don't have the right one on my keyboard :)

Hey, I never realized this before:
Russian   ->    English:
   P  sounds like  R
   y  sounds like  oo

So, in Russian the first two characters of 'Ruby' are 'Py' - hmmm...
something mighty suspicious about that...

Phil



Mon, 22 Aug 2005 15:34:20 GMT  
 Russian Ruby resource and Ruby Course

Quote:

>Hi all,

>A Russian-language Ruby resource has been started - http://ruby.iatp.by

>Currently it contains materials of a Ruby course which was developed and
>led in Minsk, Belarus, by Alexander Bokovoy and me. The course consists
>of 6 seminars.  It only targets the language, its design and built-in
>classes. We plan to develop supplementary seminars, devoted to certain
>libraries or/and technologies.

>Even if Russian is not your mother tongue, you can see what
>the course is looking at code examples - the language we all understand
>well ;-)

Horosho!

Hey, how come 'Ruby' is spelled 'Ruby' on your slides ? ;-)
Actually, I would have thought it would look like:
PybN (turn the 'N' around, and I know the 'b' isn't the right one (that's
the 'v' sound) but I don't have the right one on my keyboard :)

I never realized this before:
Russian   ->    English:
   P  sounds like  R
   y  sounds like  oo

So, in Russian the first two characters of 'Ruby' are 'Py' - hmmm...
something mighty suspicious about that...

Phil



Mon, 22 Aug 2005 15:37:11 GMT  
 Russian Ruby resource and Ruby Course
Hi, Phil !

If you don't know, language name not translated ;-)
I think it was not fortunate joke. Sorry.
Better, I think you should to wish more success in Ruby Russian Way.

--
Best regards,



Quote:
>>Hi all,

>>A Russian-language Ruby resource has been started - http://ruby.iatp.by

>>Currently it contains materials of a Ruby course which was developed and
>>led in Minsk, Belarus, by Alexander Bokovoy and me. The course consists
>>of 6 seminars.  It only targets the language, its design and built-in
>>classes. We plan to develop supplementary seminars, devoted to certain
>>libraries or/and technologies.

>>Even if Russian is not your mother tongue, you can see what
>>the course is looking at code examples - the language we all understand
>>well ;-)

PT> Horosho!

PT> Hey, how come 'Ruby' is spelled 'Ruby' on your slides ? ;-)
PT> Actually, I would have thought it would look like:
PT> PybN (turn the 'N' around, and I know the 'b' isn't the right one (that's
PT> the 'v' sound) but I don't have the right one on my keyboard :)

PT> I never realized this before:
Russian   ->>    English:
PT>    P  sounds like  R
PT>    y  sounds like  oo

PT> So, in Russian the first two characters of 'Ruby' are 'Py' - hmmm...
PT> something mighty suspicious about that...

PT> Phil



Mon, 22 Aug 2005 18:40:28 GMT  
 Russian Ruby resource and Ruby Course

Quote:
----- Original Message -----


Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 2:40 AM
Subject: Re: Ruby and python related in Cyrillic ;-)

> Hi, Phil !

> If you don't know, language name not translated ;-)
> I think it was not fortunate joke. Sorry.
> Better, I think you should to wish more success in Ruby Russian Way.

Phil was the only one so far to notice the anouncement and express warm feelings towards the first (as it seems) Russian site devoted to programming in Ruby. And you, Vladimir, were the first to slap him for the joke. In the very least your remark is rude and something well avoided on this list. Sorry.

For those curious (and those who have cyrillic support enabled), Ruby would spell in Russian as

or, if you do name translation for this gem stone, even:

However we do not ususlly translate programming languages names.

Gennady.

Quote:
> --
> Best regards,



> >>Hi all,

> >>A Russian-language Ruby resource has been started - http://ruby.iatp.by

> >>Currently it contains materials of a Ruby course which was developed and
> >>led in Minsk, Belarus, by Alexander Bokovoy and me. The course consists
> >>of 6 seminars.  It only targets the language, its design and built-in
> >>classes. We plan to develop supplementary seminars, devoted to certain
> >>libraries or/and technologies.

> >>Even if Russian is not your mother tongue, you can see what
> >>the course is looking at code examples - the language we all understand
> >>well ;-)

> PT> Horosho!

> PT> Hey, how come 'Ruby' is spelled 'Ruby' on your slides ? ;-)
> PT> Actually, I would have thought it would look like:
> PT> PybN (turn the 'N' around, and I know the 'b' isn't the right one (that's
> PT> the 'v' sound) but I don't have the right one on my keyboard :)

> PT> I never realized this before:
> Russian   ->>    English:
> PT>    P  sounds like  R
> PT>    y  sounds like  oo

> PT> So, in Russian the first two characters of 'Ruby' are 'Py' - hmmm...
> PT> something mighty suspicious about that...

> PT> Phil



Tue, 23 Aug 2005 00:13:26 GMT  
 Russian Ruby resource and Ruby Course

Quote:

>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

>------=_NextPart_000_002F_01C2E3B8.4B5A1E40
>Content-Type: text/plain;
>    charset="windows-1251"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>----- Original Message -----=20


>Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 2:40 AM
>Subject: Re: Ruby and Python related in Cyrillic ;-)

>> Hi, Phil !
>>=20
>> If you don't know, language name not translated ;-)
>> I think it was not fortunate joke. Sorry.
>> Better, I think you should to wish more success in Ruby Russian Way.
>>=20

>Phil was the only one so far to notice the anouncement and express warm =
>feelings towards the first (as it seems) Russian site devoted to =
>programming in Ruby. And you, Vladimir, were the first to slap him for =
>the joke. In the very least your remark is rude and something well =
>avoided on this list. Sorry.

Don't worry, no offense taken... my joke was rather obscure and probably
didn't translate well...

Quote:

>For those curious (and those who have cyrillic support enabled), Ruby =
>would spell in Russian as
>=D0=D3=C1=C8
>or, if you do name translation for this gem stone, even:
>=D0=D3=C1=C8=CD

>However we do not ususlly translate programming languages names.

Interesting, so you pretty much have to know English to know how to say
them.  Well, I suppose you pretty much have to know English to program in
them as well...

So if you see 'Python' in a Russian document wouldn't your first
inclination (if Russian is your native language) be to pronounce it
something like 'Roo' as the first syllable?  Like as a native English
speaker my first inclination at seeing: Pycc would be to pronounce it as
'piess' whereas in Russian it would be pronounced 'roos'.

I took a semester of Russian at community college and one of the first
things you have to get is that some letters that look familiar to you
(they exist in the English alphabet) have been 'overloaded' with different
phonemes (P->R, y->oo, B->V, etc.) I suspect the same happens for Russians
learning English.

Phil



Tue, 23 Aug 2005 03:09:39 GMT  
 Russian Ruby resource and Ruby Course

Quote:

> I took a semester of Russian at community college and one of the first
> things you have to get is that some letters that look familiar to you
> (they exist in the English alphabet) have been 'overloaded' with different
> phonemes (P->R, y->oo, B->V, etc.) I suspect the same happens for Russians
> learning English.

> Phil

Interesting.  Is there a list of words that are spelled the same in
both English Latin and Russian Cyrillic alphabets, but are of course
pronounced differently and mean different things?


Tue, 23 Aug 2005 10:26:15 GMT  
 Russian Ruby resource and Ruby Course

Quote:

> ...
> Don't worry, no offense taken... my joke was rather obscure and
> probably
> didn't translate well...

It was OK, I heard worse ;-)

Quote:
> .....
> Interesting, so you pretty much have to know English to know how to say
> them.  Well, I suppose you pretty much have to know English to program
> in
> them as well...

In Russian schools students are taught  English, German or French,
sometimes Spanish, since early years. So people in general are aware of
Latin pronunciation and differences from Cyrillic. As for programming,
usually knowing English to some extend is a must. However in many cases
it is limited to knowing the meaning of common words, not necessarily
how to pronounce them.

I still think that it is more of a drawback for a programming language
to have similarity with one's native language. In case it has (like
with English), it is more difficult, in my opinion, to achieve
necessary abstraction level for algorithmic exercises. I remember
looking at a COBOL program (COBOL is the only language I know that have
Russian implementation with all keywords translated). In the very least
it was perceived as funny and awkward. Even now when I know English
pretty well (I hope), I never think of keywords (like for, while, if,
do, etc.) literally, rather as mathematical notations. And it helps a
lot (again, IMHO).

Quote:

> So if you see 'Python' in a Russian document wouldn't your first
> inclination (if Russian is your native language) be to pronounce it
> something like 'Roo' as the first syllable?  Like as a native English

I would rather say "Pee". You spot non-cyrillic characters at once and
usually switch to latin pronunciation right away (it depends greatly on
the context). However, for me even now it takes some effort (split of a
second usually) to pronounce 'y' in Python as [ai], it is more natural
to make it sound like 'ee'. That's maybe because Python (as snake)
spells e??? in Russian (Peet'on).

Quote:
> speaker my first inclination at seeing: Pycc would be to pronounce it
> as
> 'piess' whereas in Russian it would be pronounced 'roos'.

> I took a semester of Russian at community college and one of the first
> things you have to get is that some letters that look familiar to you
> (they exist in the English alphabet) have been 'overloaded' with
> different
> phonemes (P->R, y->oo, B->V, etc.) I suspect the same happens for
> Russians
> learning English.

Somehow, I got through this part easily. You usually switch to a
different set of rules, and that's it. Sometimes I experience quite the
opposite: I see a stand-alone Russian word (like PEKA -- river, or
BETKA -- branch), but try to interpret it as English and wondering what
the hack it means ;-)

Gennady.



Tue, 23 Aug 2005 14:38:03 GMT  
 Russian Ruby resource and Ruby Course

Quote:


>> I took a semester of Russian at community college and one of the first
>> things you have to get is that some letters that look familiar to you
>> (they exist in the English alphabet) have been 'overloaded' with
>> different
>> phonemes (P->R, y->oo, B->V, etc.) I suspect the same happens for
>> Russians
>> learning English.

>> Phil

> Interesting.  Is there a list of words that are spelled the same in
> both English Latin and Russian Cyrillic alphabets, but are of course
> pronounced differently and mean different things?

Gee, I couldn't come up with a single one, however I am sure there must
be some. In general, it is more common to see an English word migrate
into Russian and being spelled so that you may not even recognize it.
Like computer -- ??e??? (you need to have cyrillic enabled in your
browser to properly see the letters).

Gennady.



Tue, 23 Aug 2005 14:51:47 GMT  
 Russian Ruby resource and Ruby Course


Quote:
> necessary abstraction level for algorithmic exercises. I remember
> looking at a COBOL program (COBOL is the only language I know that have
> Russian implementation with all keywords translated). In the very least
> it was perceived as funny and awkward.

Indeed. Someone got the brilliant idea of translation Visual Basic for
Applications (VBA) to all sorts of langauges. That whats highly useful
(not), especially when sharing macros in international orginazations.
Even now, when this idea has been dumped, we still struggle with "." and ","
as decimal separators. It's not useful to have these sorts of errors in a
spreadsheet.
I'd be happy to dump the danish comma separator for the enlish "." and for
all practical purposes we already have. But then the american date format is
hopeless - so it's difficult to settle for a single locale.

Quote:
> Even now when I know English
> pretty well (I hope), I never think of keywords (like for, while, if,
> do, etc.) literally, rather as mathematical notations. And it helps a
> lot (again, IMHO).

True - but APL didn't really take off - it was too cryptic. You need some
tie to natural languages - wether it is you native langauge or some other
langauge.
Also, the extensions, i.e. function and class names also need to be named
sensibly.

Actually we have a well developed system of danish words for mathematical
notations but danish is too small a language to warrant translation of all
relevant mathematical texts, so even here english is in common use. The
mostly symbolic nature of mathematics does not solve the need to communicate
across borders.

Mikkel



Tue, 23 Aug 2005 17:30:55 GMT  
 
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