ved key-mapping to conventional use. 
Author Message
 ved key-mapping to conventional use.

Quote:

> If you type ENTER dk, and then type the key that you want to map, e.g.,
> UP ARROW, then ved will create and display the source code for a
> procedure which you can put in your vedinit.p file.... etc.

Wow ! Now the arrow-keys move cursor, 4 directions = normal !
Quiet strange to control (normally considered low level) keys mapping
from the high level.

The default key-mapping was like tying shoe laces while wearing
boxing gloves and blindfold.  Especially considering the very 'gentle'
tutorials.    Of course in the 'designed for' enviroment:  multiple students
with a teacher; this problem is solved.

For dispersed individual users/colaborators it would be appropriate to
have the information to re-map the keys, soon after installation.

Perhaps soon I'll be able to setup to run ved as non-X ?
Apparently Andrew Sayers' patches are for X-window ?

Chris Glur.



Tue, 12 Aug 2003 01:31:41 GMT  
 ved key-mapping to conventional use.
[To reply replace "Aaron.Sloman.XX" with "A.Sloman"]

Quote:

> Date: 22 Feb 2001 17:31:41 GMT
> Organization: The South African Internet Exchange

> Wow ! Now the arrow-keys move cursor, 4 directions = normal !

If you record the vedsetkey commands that solved your problems and email
them to me I'll make them available to others.

I am wondering whether the setup we use in Birmingham would have
solved the problem in any case. Unfortunately it involves changing
(a) X defaults, (b) Ved's default keybindings, and (c) some of the
Ved key-binding libraries in $usepop/pop/lib/ved/term/*keys*.p
We use a combination of Vt100 and Xved xdefault settings that are in

    http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/poplog/setup/Poplib/Xdefaults.poplog

and a set of pop-11 commands to be compiled from your $poplib/vedinit.p
file in here

    http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/poplog/setup/Poplib/vedinit.p

which causes appropriate terminal conversion files included with
bhamteach.tar.gz to be compiled at startup.

If that's done, then for many users who are not using a Sun type4 or
type5 keyboard, this will provide the required key bindings:
    http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/poplog/auto/vedncdxtermkeys.p

(Originally developed for NCD Xterminals, but also seems to work on
standard PC keyboard.)

It appears in this department to work for a variety of terminals
including Xterminals, Suns, Linux PCs running Poplog, Alpha Unix
workstations, and PCs running eXceed used to log in remotely to
poplog on a sun, and works whether running XVed or ordinary Ved.

I may try later this summer, if I have time, to move to a new
release of Poplog (V16?) in which all that stuff is included as
standard rather than as an optional "Birmingham" extra.

I also propose to include our pattern prefix "!" as an autoloadable
extra allowing the pop-11 pattern matcher to be used with lvars and
sections. Then all our revised teaching material on the matcher can be
made standard. If anyone doesn't know what I am talking about see
    http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/poplog/teach/vars_and_lvars
    http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/poplog/help/readpattern

Quote:
> Quiet strange to control (normally considered low level) keys mapping
> from the high level.

Users of AI systems are accustomed to being able to control almost
everything from a high level using whatever high level programming
language they are using. That's also true of Emacs users, who can
use Lisp to modify how Emacs behaves.

Quote:
> The default key-mapping was like tying shoe laces while wearing
> boxing gloves and blindfold.

Maybe my proposals for change would fix that. I have been nervous
about putting Birmingham modifications into the standard releases,
without some well defined user group that can authorise such things,
but I've now seen enough people struggling with the present setup to
feel it has to be done, unless I get screams of protest in response
to this message.

One consequence is that people who have got used to the current
defaults without changing them may complain when they get the updates.
So there should be a restore_oldved.p library.

Quote:
> Especially considering the very 'gentle'
> tutorials.    Of course in the 'designed for' enviroment:  multiple students
> with a teacher; this problem is solved.

I was hoping it would also be solved for people who copied the Bham
setup.

Quote:
> For dispersed individual users/colaborators it would be appropriate to
> have the information to re-map the keys, soon after installation.

> Perhaps soon I'll be able to setup to run ved as non-X ?

That should be easy if you run X in an Xterm window (with $TERM set
to xterm).

If you run Ved in a linux non-X login console, then everything
becomes much easier if you do this before starting Ved:

if running tcsh or csh as shell:
    setenv TERM xterm

if running bash, sh or ksh:
    TERM=xterm
    export TERM

Then Ved ought to be able to work out what to do at least with the
arrow keys and some of the function keys, like PageUp PageDown. But
it may not do anything sensible with F1, F2, etc. which in the bham
setup is normally mapped onto mark start, mark last, delete to start
of line, delete whole line, etc. etc. as in
    http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/poplog/help/ncdxtermkeys

Quote:
> Apparently Andrew Sayers' patches are for X-window ?

If you are referring to this, it does the opposite:
    http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/poplog/linuxterm.tar.gz

It provides files for use with non-X Ved on a linux console NOT
running X if you do not wish to define $TERM as above.

Most people will find it simpler to define $TERM.

I hardly ever use XVed, except when teaching, or occasionally when
I want a scrolling XVed window as an interface to a program that
displays some textual data while running.

There may be something else Andrew Sayers has announced that I've
forgotten about.

Quote:
> Chris Glur.

Aaron
====
Aaron Sloman, ( http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/~axs/ )
School of Computer Science, The University of Birmingham, B15 2TT, UK

PAPERS: http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/cogaff/
FREE TOOLS: http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/poplog/freepoplog.html


Fri, 15 Aug 2003 03:30:06 GMT  
 
 [ 2 post ] 

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