basepop11 
Author Message
 basepop11

Hello,

What is the difference between basepop11 and pop11?

I ask because I want to run poplog (and use ved) on a Linux system in
which the X Window system is not installed.

As far as I can tell (after a few minutes fiddling about)  the
difference iis that running pop11 gives me some warnings:
    ;;; Warning : can't open shared object /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so
burble burble. (No, it doesn't actually say burble burble.)

Whereas running basepop11 works fine without the warnings.

Well, almost fine. I have to go back and re-read all those posts
about getting ved working in a Linux console (and we are talking
console here -- not console window). But that is not a difference
between basepop11 and pop11.

Jonathan



Sun, 05 Oct 2003 21:58:46 GMT  
 basepop11
There's nothing like following up to ones own posts ...


Quote:

> ... I have to go back and re-read all those posts
>about getting ved working in a Linux console ...

The quick-and-dirty answer (which should, perhaps, be added to
install.txt) is to
   setenv TERM xterm

Jonathan



Sun, 05 Oct 2003 22:09:51 GMT  
 basepop11

[To reply replace "Aaron.Sloman.XX" with "A.Sloman"]


Quote:
> Hello,

> What is the difference between basepop11 and pop11?

Here is an answer that tells you more than you wanted to know. You
used to know it about 15 years ago. It's explained in a lot more
detail in REF system.

basepop11 has the core of poplog, the pop-11 compiler, some bits
required for Prolog and lisp, Ved, but no XVed and very litle of the
Poplog X stuff.

The pop11 command runs basepop11 (to which it is linked in $popsys),
which then discovers that

    (a) it was started by te pop11 command

    (b) $pop_pop11 is an environment variable with value something
        like this (defined in $popsys/popenv or $popsys/popenv.sh
        depending on your shell):

        +$popsavelib/startup.psv

(except in birmingham where we use it to refer to a version of
startup.psv which also has objectclass, rclib, and various other
things precompiled).

    (c) basepop11 then behaves as if it had been run with this
        format

        basepop11 +$popsavelib/startup.psv

    I.e. it restores the startup.psv saved image. This saved image
    was made by (and can be rebuild by) the shell script
        $popcom/mkstartup

    which compiles LIB startup before creating the saved image.

    LIB startup

Mainly does (by default):

                uses poplog_ui;
which includes
                uses xved;

and
        uses vedset;

What all that does depends on whether you have motif or not!

The Bham rclib package was designed to make motif redundant, and to
be more user extendable than poplog_ui because it is based round
objectclass, which is a wonderful extension to pop11. It did not
exist when poplog_ui was developed (by ISL, mainly Julian Clinton, I
think.)

Quote:
> I ask because I want to run poplog (and use ved) on a Linux system in
> which the X Window system is not installed.

You have now found the quick answer which is
    setenv TERM xterm

or the bash equivalent.

If you don't want to do that, fetch

    http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/poplog/linuxterm.tar.gz
        (1381 bytes: kindly supplised by Andrew Sayer.
        It provides three library files, browsable in
         http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/poplog/linuxterm/

This needs to be documented somewhere on the free poplog site.

One of these days I (or someone) will prepare a FAQ for new users,
but so far there's just the news/pop-forum archive at
    www.poplog.org

Quote:
> As far as I can tell (after a few minutes fiddling about)  the
> difference iis that running pop11 gives me some warnings:
>     ;;; Warning : can't open shared object /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so
> burble burble. (No, it doesn't actually say burble burble.)

> Whereas running basepop11 works fine without the warnings.

That should not happen when you run pop11. I think this is the
problem discussed a few weeks ago: Redhat stopped making
    /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so

available by default. So you should create a link

    ln -s libXt.so.6.0 /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so

otherwise you will not be able to do anything with X in Poplog.

I must completely rewrite the installation guide, one of these
days....

Quote:
> Well, almost fine. I have to go back and re-read all those posts
> about getting ved working in a Linux console (and we are talking
> console here -- not console window). But that is not a difference
> between basepop11 and pop11.

Right.

Aaron
====
Aaron Sloman, ( http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/~axs/ )
School of Computer Science, The University of Birmingham, B15 2TT, UK

PAPERS: http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/cogaff/
FREE TOOLS: http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/poplog/freepoplog.html



Sun, 05 Oct 2003 22:44:27 GMT  
 basepop11

Quote:


>[To reply replace "Aaron.Sloman.XX" with "A.Sloman"]


>> Hello,

>> What is the difference between basepop11 and pop11?

>Here is an answer that tells you more than you wanted to know. You
(snip)

>basepop11 has the core of poplog, the pop-11 compiler, some bits
>required for Prolog and lisp, Ved, but no XVed and very litle of the
>Poplog X stuff.

(Big snip -- see original post for details, if you want to
make more sophisticated changes):

In summary, pop11 is basepop11, plus the result of compiling

Quote:
>    LIB startup

which does

Quote:
>            uses poplog_ui;
>which includes
>            uses xved;

>and
>        uses vedset;

Since I don't have X-Windows (on the machine under discussion), it
looks like the easiest thing to do is to run basepop11, and then
do some equivalent of "uses vedset" in my init.p file.

Quote:
>> As far as I can tell (after a few minutes fiddling about)  the
>> difference iis that running pop11 gives me some warnings:
(snip)
>That should not happen when you run pop11. I think this is the
>problem discussed a few weeks ago: Redhat stopped making
>    /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so

>available by default. So you should create a link

>    ln -s libXt.so.6.0 /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so

>otherwise you will not be able to do anything with X in Poplog.

I think, given the context that X Windows is not installed or has
been deleted, that it will be difficult to do anything with X in
Poplog (on this machine) even if I do make the link. However, I
suppose I could make the link anyway and see what happens ... :-).

Jonathan



Mon, 06 Oct 2003 23:50:55 GMT  
 
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