MS-DOS/Windows POP11? 
Author Message
 MS-DOS/Windows POP11?


Quote:

>I was wondering if anyone knew when a version of pop11
>for MS-Windows would be ready.

I don't get a chance to read this group regularly, so I may have
missed a followup. But this question is significant for me, too.

More particularly, I know that there is work on a Windows NT
version, with the possibility of a beta release some time in 96.

I'm currently deciding between upgrading to Windows NT or Windows 95
as my main development OS where I work. I do most of my work in
C++ on PCs, but like to do some prototyping and one-off work in a more
suitable language. Currently I use Franz Allegro CL/PC (a good
implementation of Common Lisp). Franz have just sent me their
latest upgrade offer (actually 5 copies of it - they could save
themselves a lot of postage if they pruned their mailing lists :-).

I have to respond by end of December, so I'll almost certainly
get two licences from them.

I've been tempted to get a commercial Linux licence instead but,
on balance, it just wouldn't make sense to give myself the extra
work of running a Linux system. If I had a definite release date
for Poplog on NT, which I had confidence in, then maybe I could
wait for that instead.

Of course, I'd much rather hear nothing than a forecasted date
that cannot be realised.

Jonathan



Fri, 15 May 1998 03:00:00 GMT  
 MS-DOS/Windows POP11?

Quote:

> Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 13:05:40 +0000
> Organization: SofLuc Ltd



> >I was wondering if anyone knew when a version of pop11
> >for MS-Windows would be ready.

> I don't get a chance to read this group regularly, so I may have
> missed a followup. But this question is significant for me, too.

> More particularly, I know that there is work on a Windows NT
> version, with the possibility of a beta release some time in 96.

> I'm currently deciding between upgrading to Windows NT or Windows 95
> as my main development OS where I work. I do most of my work in
> C++ on PCs, but like to do some prototyping and one-off work in a more
> suitable language. Currently I use Franz Allegro CL/PC (a good
> implementation of Common Lisp). Franz have just sent me their
> latest upgrade offer (actually 5 copies of it - they could save
> themselves a lot of postage if they pruned their mailing lists :-).

> I have to respond by end of December, so I'll almost certainly
> get two licences from them.

> I've been tempted to get a commercial Linux licence instead but,
> on balance, it just wouldn't make sense to give myself the extra
> work of running a Linux system. If I had a definite release date
> for Poplog on NT, which I had confidence in, then maybe I could
> wait for that instead.

> Of course, I'd much rather hear nothing than a forecasted date
> that cannot be realised.

> Jonathan

My guess is you will hear nothing. A full port including graphics,
control panels, etc. is bound to be a huge amount of work. On the
other hand, I suspect they could release a purely textual Pop-11
right now.

The main obstacle, I would guess, is that the typical price of PC
software packages is so low that Poplog on a PC would have to
seriously undercut all other versions of Poplog (Vax, Sun, HPPA,
SGI, DEC Alpha, etc.) and this might hit ISL very hard, because
there's little chance of their selling thousands of copies in order
to make up for the low price?

But it's very hard to predict these things.

Aaron
---
--
Aaron Sloman, ( http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/~axs )
School of Computer Science, The University of Birmingham, B15 2TT, England

Phone: +44-121-414-4775 (Sec 3711)       Fax:   +44-121-414-4281



Tue, 19 May 1998 03:00:00 GMT  
 MS-DOS/Windows POP11?

Quote:




>> >I was wondering if anyone knew when a version of pop11
>> >for MS-Windows would be ready.

>> More particularly, I know that there is work on a Windows NT
>> version, with the possibility of a beta release some time in 96.

>> Of course, I'd much rather hear nothing than a forecasted date
>> that cannot be realised.

>> Jonathan

>My guess is you will hear nothing. A full port including graphics,
>control panels, etc. is bound to be a huge amount of work. On the
>other hand, I suspect they could release a purely textual Pop-11
>right now.

>The main obstacle, I would guess, is that the typical price of PC
>software packages is so low that Poplog on a PC would have to
>seriously undercut all other versions of Poplog (Vax, Sun, HPPA,
>SGI, DEC Alpha, etc.) and this might hit ISL very hard, because
>there's little chance of their selling thousands of copies in order
>to make up for the low price?

I don't think the price would be the obstacle. Franz seem to manage
selling for both kinds of platforms. My guess would be that the main
factor is the cost of porting to NT. I do not believe SPARC poplog
users will throw away their SPARCs, Alphas etc. and buy PCs - or, if
they will, then they are going to do it anyway, and with no NT poplog
you've lost them completely.

But I think it would be a mistake (not a fatal mistake - but a
mistake nevertheless) to wait until all the bells and whistles are
ported. After all, it is aiming at a moving target.

IMHO, the minimum needed for a release would be textual pop-11;
an edit window with a mode accepting the main industry standard
key sequences for things like cut, copy, paste, save; limited
mouse support (for marking regions of text); and a foreign
function interface so that users always have the option of working
around deficiencies, linking in existing code etc. This would also
let you sell the other poplog compilers (lisp, prolog etc.)

Price this reasonably low (a few hundred pounds) with a corresponding
low level of support. I'm not suggesting a huge advertising campaign -
just let it be available as soon as it is actually usable. If it
started selling in any reasonable volume, the revenue would pay for
further development. If not, you haven't really lost anything if you
plan for a full NT port eventually. You can always increase the price
gradually as more stuff gets ported.

Jonathan Cunningham



Wed, 20 May 1998 03:00:00 GMT  
 
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