Why did they make FORTRAN so hard to parse? 
Author Message
 Why did they make FORTRAN so hard to parse?

Quote:

> I am using Outlook Express, and why did you not quote my text as it
> would have perhaps let some light into whats happening if your
> newsreader chopped my text into more than the 3 lines posted. (above
> is 2 lines leaving my desktop, AND I expect to see 3 lines arriving
> back here from the newsgroup, if its something other than WYSIWYG for
> you, SORRY 'BOUT THAT!

Why don't you just go ahead and say:




Sun, 03 Jul 2005 11:17:36 GMT  
 Why did they make FORTRAN so hard to parse?


Quote:


>> Over the wire, your posts only have CRLFs at the end of each paragraph.
>> Email and news convention is to have a CRLFs at the end of each line,
before
>> column 80. (Because it wouldn't fit on a punch card otherwise :)

>Default seems to be at col 72, in my experience.  Can't imagine why....
>:->  I mean, who's going to add a comment in the final 8 cols??

You would be surprised :-).  There were one or two profs who
thought I could squeeze in more than 8.  All I had to do was
punch smaller.  Boy, I haven't thought of that one in donkey's
years.

/BAH

Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.



Sun, 03 Jul 2005 19:36:41 GMT  
 Why did they make FORTRAN so hard to parse?


Quote:

>Hank: http://horedson.home.att.net
>W0RLI: http://w0rli.home.att.net





>> > Over the wire, your posts only have CRLFs at the end of each
paragraph.
>> > Email and news convention is to have a CRLFs at the end of each line,
>before
>> > column 80. (Because it wouldn't fit on a punch card otherwise :)

>> Default seems to be at col 72, in my experience.  Can't imagine why....
>> :->  I mean, who's going to add a comment in the final 8 cols??

>Do you put continuation characters in col 6 when you post
>multi-line posts? Usually card sequence numbers in those
>last columns, so you could recover from dropping your
>program on the floor. Did that with four boxes of cards once.

>Recovery was quite simple :-)

Unless you hadn't tested it and made a keypunch error.  That's
why red diagonal lines were a backup mechanism.

/BAH

Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.



Sun, 03 Jul 2005 19:37:55 GMT  
 Why did they make FORTRAN so hard to parse?


Quote:



>(snip)

>> Do you put continuation characters in col 6 when you post
>> multi-line posts? Usually card sequence numbers in those
>> last columns, so you could recover from dropping your
>> program on the floor. Did that with four boxes of cards once.

>> Recovery was quite simple :-)

>If you have a card sorter around, but who has one of those these
>days.

You hold them up to the light and eyeball the sort.  I did some
of my proof reading by doing that.

Quote:

>You could read it in, sort it, then punch it back out again!

That was very Frowned Upon in my card shop.  Cards were expensive.

/BAH

Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.



Sun, 03 Jul 2005 19:39:55 GMT  
 Why did they make FORTRAN so hard to parse?


Quote:

>> I am using Outlook Express, and why did you not quote my text as it
>> would have perhaps let some light into whats happening if your
>> newsreader chopped my text into more than the 3 lines posted. (above
>> is 2 lines leaving my desktop, AND I expect to see 3 lines arriving
>> back here from the newsgroup, if its something other than WYSIWYG for
>> you, SORRY 'BOUT THAT!

>Why don't you just go ahead and say:



Oh, please don't!  ;-)  Okay [emoticon grits teeth, uncrosses
eyes and parses char by char]

Ou_look e_press Ro__ors, dood!!!!_________

Outlook express Roxxors, dude!  [I have no idea.]  Do two !! mean
something?  Oh, wait.  You guys called them bangs.

There is still a problem with that Roxxors word, so I guess
two reversed angle brackets don't always map to an X.

Outlook express Ro__ors, dude!  Tri-bang, tri-at Thanksgiving.

I give up.

/BAH

Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.



Sun, 03 Jul 2005 20:03:07 GMT  
 Why did they make FORTRAN so hard to parse?

Quote:

>Do you put continuation characters in col 6 when you post
>multi-line posts? Usually card sequence numbers in those
>last columns, so you could recover from dropping your
>program on the floor. Did that with four boxes of cards once.

Um...read "from when the operator dropped your deck."

I don't recall the exact phrasing, but the big semester assignment from
one of the MIT programming classes in the early 1960s (where each student's
submision might be several thousand cards) warned that there were only
ten runs available, and that students should have contingency plans
for *when* (not *if*) the one tray dropped by the operators was the one
containing the student's deck.  And that even if this occurred, the
student would *not* get another run to make up for it.

Joe Morris



Sun, 03 Jul 2005 21:33:22 GMT  
 Why did they make FORTRAN so hard to parse?


Quote:



> > Hey, Kid!  See that funny looking key marked Enter with an arrow?
> > Please use it.

I've put a "+" in column at which I wrapped manually in each line,
otherwise left it as it appeared.

***begin quoted text***

below contains 80 columns when I read my posted message back from the+
newsgroup, same as I posted.
1234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890+
1234567890
How did you manage to get on the internet with your 40col Apple+
computer and even use lower case text?

***end quoted text***

And you might want to find out a bit about the person with whom you are
conversing before making comments such at "How did you manage to get on
the internet with your 40col Apple computer and even use lower case
text?"

--
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(used to be jclarke at eye bee em dot net)



Sun, 03 Jul 2005 22:35:08 GMT  
 Why did they make FORTRAN so hard to parse?

Quote:



> (snip)

> > Do you put continuation characters in col 6 when you post
> > multi-line posts? Usually card sequence numbers in those
> > last columns, so you could recover from dropping your
> > program on the floor. Did that with four boxes of cards once.

> > Recovery was quite simple :-)

> If you have a card sorter around, but who has one of those these
> days.

> You could read it in, sort it, then punch it back out again!

  That is, of course, assumes you can find the CE that was probably
2 years from retirement (25 years ago) to adjust the punch...

  Vic kep all of the old stuff running around here, used to test the
1009 punch with a deck of laced cards.  The 1009 drove all 800
punch dies at the same time...

-W



Sun, 03 Jul 2005 23:15:48 GMT  
 Why did they make FORTRAN so hard to parse?
In article


Quote:
> Do you put continuation characters in col 6 when you post
> multi-line posts?

Maybe I should, for this newsgroup. :-)

Quote:
> Recovery was quite simple :-)

I wrote myself a program to do that on the only system I used cards on,
an IBM 1130.  Wrote a duplication program too.

--
Today, on Paper-view: The World Origami Championship



Mon, 04 Jul 2005 04:41:22 GMT  
 Why did they make FORTRAN so hard to parse?


Quote:
> You could read it in, sort it, then punch it back out again!

Or you could use the magic marker trick.  Low tech, I know.

--
Today, on Paper-view: The World Origami Championship



Mon, 04 Jul 2005 04:42:25 GMT  
 Why did they make FORTRAN so hard to parse?

Quote:

>Default seems to be at col 72, in my experience.  Can't imagine why....
>:->  I mean, who's going to add a comment in the final 8 cols??

Gee, all of you young guys...

The email / newsgroup limit of 72 columns was because the initial
progarms were
written on machines which used or interfaced with TELETYPES or TELETYPE
networks..

Max line width on a Teletype was 72 columns.  Why 72?  

Mechanical paper handling considerations and the fact that the Model 14/15
Teletype manufactured in the 1920's were still in HEAVY use in the 1950's.
The Model 33/35 Teletype (over 13 million manufactured) was very popular
in the 60's and 70's.

80 column CRT's did not occur until the early 70's from IBM, and then became
the standard for the 70's and 80's, which was eventually replaced by
"pixel" displays
(and GUI environments) in the mid 80's.

The rule of thumb however is a CR/LF somewhere between 65 and 72.

/s/ Bill Turner, wb4alm



Mon, 04 Jul 2005 06:29:39 GMT  
 Why did they make FORTRAN so hard to parse?

Quote:




> >Why don't you just go ahead and say:


> Oh, please don't!  ;-)  Okay [emoticon grits teeth, uncrosses
> eyes and parses char by char]

> Ou_look e_press Ro__ors, dood!!!!_________

> Outlook express Roxxors, dude!  [I have no idea.]  Do two !! mean
> something?  Oh, wait.  You guys called them bangs.

> There is still a problem with that Roxxors word, so I guess
> two reversed angle brackets don't always map to an X.

It's 'Roxxors' alright - that's the kiddie way of saying 'rocks'.


Mon, 04 Jul 2005 06:36:22 GMT  
 Why did they make FORTRAN so hard to parse?
Quote:

>  Vic kep all of the old stuff running around here, used to test the
>1009 punch with a deck of laced cards.  The 1009 drove all 800
>punch dies at the same time...

>-W

you sure that wasn't 962 punch dies?

/s/ Bill Turner, wb4alm



Mon, 04 Jul 2005 06:41:23 GMT  
 Why did they make FORTRAN so hard to parse?
Quote:





> >> Over the wire, your posts only have CRLFs at the end of each paragraph.
> >> Email and news convention is to have a CRLFs at the end of each line,
> before
> >> column 80. (Because it wouldn't fit on a punch card otherwise :)

> >Default seems to be at col 72, in my experience.  Can't imagine why....
> >:->  I mean, who's going to add a comment in the final 8 cols??

> You would be surprised :-).  There were one or two profs who
> thought I could squeeze in more than 8.  All I had to do was
> punch smaller.  Boy, I haven't thought of that one in donkey's
> years.

I was always told that the last 8 columns were for sequence numbers.
That way, if you dropped the deck and mixed up the cards...you could
have a program sort the cards by sequence number.

--
+-------------------------------------------------------------+

+-------------------------------------------------------------+



Mon, 04 Jul 2005 06:44:05 GMT  
 Why did they make FORTRAN so hard to parse?

Quote:

> 80 column CRT's did not occur until the early 70's from IBM,

The 3270 line premiered in 1971, but the 2260 line had 80-character
lines half a decade before that.

--
John W. Kennedy
"The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly;
the rich have always objected to being governed at all."
   -- G. K. Chesterton, "The Man Who Was Thursday"



Mon, 04 Jul 2005 08:35:58 GMT  
 
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