UCSD P-System Pascal... 
Author Message
 UCSD P-System Pascal...

Hi All,

If anyone can cast their minds back 20 years or so....

Do you have any idea where I can find the details of the filesystem used by
the DOS-based UCSD p-system?  I need to be able to display the files from a
.VOL volume file in a windows program.
ANY useful links greatly appreciated...

Thanks,
Simon.



Sat, 07 Aug 2004 07:05:47 GMT  
 UCSD P-System Pascal...
On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:05:47 -0000, "Simon"

Quote:

>Do you have any idea where I can find the details of the filesystem used by
>the DOS-based UCSD p-system?  I need to be able to display the files from a
>.VOL volume file in a windows program.
>ANY useful links greatly appreciated...

Not much help, but Pecan Software did a UCSD Pascal for DOS.  I don't
know if they're still around.

Here's a link http://www.threedee.com/jcm/psystem/



Sat, 07 Aug 2004 09:04:15 GMT  
 UCSD P-System Pascal...


Quote:
>If anyone can cast their minds back 20 years or so....

>Do you have any idea where I can find the details of the filesystem used by
>the DOS-based UCSD p-system?  I need to be able to display the files from a
>.VOL volume file in a windows program.
>ANY useful links greatly appreciated...

Perhaps I don't understand what you need to do but have you considered
transferring the files from the .vol file using dosfiler?
--
Martin Liddle, Tynemouth Computer Services, 27 Garforth Close,
Cramlington, Northumberland, England, NE23 6EW.
Phone: 01670-712624.  Fax: 01670-717324.
Web site: <http://www.tynecomp.co.uk>.


Sat, 07 Aug 2004 08:24:11 GMT  
 UCSD P-System Pascal...

On a related note, is there somewhere a description available of USCD Pascal
itself ? In particular I am curious about the language extensions.

--

--  Leiden, Holland  | web:   users.ncrvnet.nl/gmvdijk



Sat, 07 Aug 2004 22:19:07 GMT  
 UCSD P-System Pascal...

Quote:

> On a related note, is there somewhere a description available of
> USCD Pascal itself ? In particular I am curious about the language
> extensions.

They were generally bad, unnecessary, and security holes, and did
much damage to the Pascal language.  A much better example is
ISO10206, the ISO standard for Extended Pascal.

--

   Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
   (Remove "XXXX" from reply address. yahoo works unmodified)



Sun, 08 Aug 2004 01:25:21 GMT  
 UCSD P-System Pascal...
Hello....

Quote:


> >If anyone can cast their minds back 20 years or so....

> >Do you have any idea where I can find the details of the filesystem used
by
> >the DOS-based UCSD p-system?  I need to be able to display the files from
a
> >.VOL volume file in a windows program.
> >ANY useful links greatly appreciated...

> Perhaps I don't understand what you need to do but have you considered
> transferring the files from the .vol file using dosfiler?
> --
> Martin Liddle, Tynemouth Computer Services, 27 Garforth Close,
> Cramlington, Northumberland, England, NE23 6EW.
> Phone: 01670-712624.  Fax: 01670-717324.
> Web site: <http://www.tynecomp.co.uk>.

Hi Martin,

Yes, it is possible to transfer the files out to DOS but this is not what I
need to be able to do.  I need to write a viewer to display the files and
their contents inside the volume.  ie. select a .VOL file and a list of
files is displayed, select a file and it will be loaded and displayed.

I have managed to reverse engineer most aspects of the p-system filesystem
using nowt but a hex-editor but some bits are pretty difficult to decode!!!
I have written Delphi objects to load, view, delete and export files but now
need a little more information to enable saving files back to the volumes.

I'm sure many people think I'm mad for attempting this when it can all be
done from within the p-system editor but I am constantly switching between
delphi and the p-system.  This makes the p-system editor seem even more
un-friendly than it used too!!!

Thanks,
Simon.



Sun, 08 Aug 2004 05:03:48 GMT  
 UCSD P-System Pascal...
Simon a crit :

Quote:
> Do you have any idea where I can find the details of the filesystem used by
> the DOS-based UCSD p-system?  I need to be able to display the files from a
> .VOL volume file in a windows program.
> ANY useful links greatly appreciated...

write a ucsd pascal program and convert it with ncg.
if i remember rigth the .VOL format is the same as a ucsd hard disk.
should be in the doc.
--
http://www.pascaland.org/ compilateurs, sources et liens langage pascal, delphi
http://franck.pissotte.free.fr/ mon vide grenier: vieux materiels, logiciels, livres et revues


Sun, 08 Aug 2004 01:40:49 GMT  
 UCSD P-System Pascal...


Quote:

> > On a related note, is there somewhere a description available of
> > USCD Pascal itself ? In particular I am curious about the language
> > extensions.

> They were generally bad, unnecessary, and security holes, and did
> much damage to the Pascal language.  A much better example is
> ISO10206, the ISO standard for Extended Pascal.

> --

>    Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
>    (Remove "XXXX" from reply address. yahoo works unmodified)


Many of the "extensions" were later incorporated into Borland's
versions, so I guess you would agree that they were bad as well?
Security holes? This wasn't Internet Explorer or an OS akin to Windows
XP or anything. I sincerely doubt you'd find a web-server running
UCSD...
Anyway, the extensions included UNITs, INTERACTIVE I/O (ugh),
processes with semaphores, automatic packing/unpacking, STRINGs, LONG
INTEGERS (not the long integers of today - you specified how many
DIGITS of precision, up to about 36 if memory serves). Block
read/writes, Unit read/writes, string functions, etc.
It is hard to find UCSD stuff on the web. Here is one site:
http://www.ics.uci.edu/~archive/documentation/p-system/p-system.html
It was a great system to learn Pascal on in its day.


Tue, 10 Aug 2004 01:24:23 GMT  
 UCSD P-System Pascal...


Quote:
>> >Do you have any idea where I can find the details of the filesystem used
>by
>> >the DOS-based UCSD p-system?  I need to be able to display the files from
>a
>> >.VOL volume file in a windows program.
>Yes, it is possible to transfer the files out to DOS but this is not what I
>need to be able to do.  I need to write a viewer to display the files and
>their contents inside the volume.  ie. select a .VOL file and a list of
>files is displayed, select a file and it will be loaded and displayed.

>I have managed to reverse engineer most aspects of the p-system filesystem
>using nowt but a hex-editor but some bits are pretty difficult to decode!!!
>I have written Delphi objects to load, view, delete and export files but now
>need a little more information to enable saving files back to the volumes.

I've got a lot of documentation so if you want to post specific
questions I'll be happy to help if I can.

Quote:
>I'm sure many people think I'm mad for attempting this when it can all be
>done from within the p-system editor but I am constantly switching between
>delphi and the p-system.  This makes the p-system editor seem even more
>un-friendly than it used too!!!

It was the first screen editor I used and I thought it was wonderful.
Considering that MS-DOS still shipped with only edlin for another 10
years, I think it stands up pretty well against its contemporaries.
--
Martin Liddle, Tynemouth Computer Services, 27 Garforth Close,
Cramlington, Northumberland, England, NE23 6EW.
Phone: 01670-712624.  Fax: 01670-717324.
Web site: <http://www.tynecomp.co.uk>.


Tue, 10 Aug 2004 03:33:03 GMT  
 UCSD P-System Pascal...

Quote:




> > > On a related note, is there somewhere a description available of
> > > USCD Pascal itself ? In particular I am curious about the language
> > > extensions.

> > They were generally bad, unnecessary, and security holes, and did
> > much damage to the Pascal language.  A much better example is
> > ISO10206, the ISO standard for Extended Pascal.

> > --

> >    Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
> >    (Remove "XXXX" from reply address. yahoo works unmodified)

> Many of the "extensions" were later incorporated into Borland's
> versions, so I guess you would agree that they were bad as well?
> Security holes? This wasn't Internet Explorer or an OS akin to Windows
> XP or anything. I sincerely doubt you'd find a web-server running
> UCSD...
> Anyway, the extensions included UNITs, INTERACTIVE I/O (ugh),
> processes with semaphores, automatic packing/unpacking, STRINGs, LONG
> INTEGERS (not the long integers of today - you specified how many
> DIGITS of precision, up to about 36 if memory serves). Block
> read/writes, Unit read/writes, string functions, etc.
> It is hard to find UCSD stuff on the web. Here is one site:
> http://www.*-*-*.com/ ~archive/documentation/p-system/p-system.html
> It was a great system to learn Pascal on in its day.

For a horrible example, look at their implementation of input.
They reversed the order of read(f, char) to "get(input); ch :=
input^;" which made all input device sensitive.  I forget much of
it.  Yes, it certainly had its uses, but there were better things
available.  Luckily for me they pulled the license when they sold
it off, so I didn't waste too much time on it, and ended up with a
better and portable system.

Another ugly area was the file implementation and the code
segmentation.  The latter required both the called and calling
segments to be in memory simultaneously.  They omitted the
pack/unpack procedures, which broke correct code. (they didn't
have to do any more than move things - very simple.)

It needed a little more thought and a little less banging out of
code.  They also annoyed me by{*filter*} their copyright on the PD
P4 compiler code they modified.

It has been a long time, and I suspect I have dropped some bits in
my memory.

--

   Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
   (Remove "XXXX" from reply address. yahoo works unmodified)



Tue, 10 Aug 2004 03:48:27 GMT  
 UCSD P-System Pascal...


Quote:

> For a horrible example, look at their implementation of input.
> They reversed the order of read(f, char) to "get(input); ch :=
> input^;" which made all input device sensitive.  I forget much of
> it.  Yes, it certainly had its uses, but there were better things
> available.  Luckily for me they pulled the license when they sold
> it off, so I didn't waste too much time on it, and ended up with a
> better and portable system.

> Another ugly area was the file implementation and the code
> segmentation.  The latter required both the called and calling
> segments to be in memory simultaneously.  They omitted the
> pack/unpack procedures, which broke correct code. (they didn't
> have to do any more than move things - very simple.)

> It needed a little more thought and a little less banging out of
> code.  They also annoyed me by{*filter*} their copyright on the PD
> P4 compiler code they modified.

> It has been a long time, and I suspect I have dropped some bits in
> my memory.

> --

>    Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
>    (Remove "XXXX" from reply address. yahoo works unmodified)


Yes, the implementation of input is what I was referring to with
INTERACTIVE (ugh!). You could have it both ways, but if you wanted
input from the user you needed to use INTERACTIVE which did it the way
you stated...
They stated their reasons, but I don't remember later compilers
working this way. Something to do with:
If you used the standard method, the user would have to type the first
keypress before the first get...
I never missed pack/unpack, but then I wasn't big into porting code
over. It would be easy to port, still, just requiring the programmer
to pay special attention.
I guess the most annoying thing to me was the price. I remember they
wanted about $500 for the software. Fortunately, I didn't pay that
rate, thanks to the maker of my machine exiting the marketplace...


Tue, 10 Aug 2004 04:50:57 GMT  
 UCSD P-System Pascal...

Quote:

> > They were generally bad, unnecessary, and security holes, and did
> > much damage to the Pascal language.  A much better example is
> > ISO10206, the ISO standard for Extended Pascal.
> It is hard to find UCSD stuff on the web. Here is one site:
> http://www.ics.uci.edu/~archive/documentation/p-system/p-system.html
> It was a great system to learn Pascal on in its day.

Thanks for the link, although it doesn't seem to have anything relevant
to the Pascal language. And BTW, I learned Pascal using it, on my Apple II,
with it's expensive language card. Those were the days... :-)

--

--  Leiden, Holland  | web:   users.ncrvnet.nl/gmvdijk



Tue, 10 Aug 2004 03:04:46 GMT  
 UCSD P-System Pascal...


Quote:
>Thanks for the link, although it doesn't seem to have anything relevant
>to the Pascal language. And BTW, I learned Pascal using it, on my Apple II,
>with it's expensive language card. Those were the days... :-)

I did the very same thing!  The Apple II+ was my first personal
computer, and I selected it because of the Pascal.  The language card
required to run the p-system with Pascal was $500.


Tue, 10 Aug 2004 07:07:06 GMT  
 UCSD P-System Pascal...


Quote:

>It was the first screen editor I used and I thought it was wonderful.
>Considering that MS-DOS still shipped with only edlin for another 10
>years, I think it stands up pretty well against its contemporaries.

It was wonderful when compared against what went before (YALOE?). What
seemed to me the most wonderful thing was when one of the UCSD editors
started remembering the name of the file you were editing, before that
you had to tell it what file to write when you saved it - the number
of times I overwrote the wrong file in the wee small hours at the end
of a long editing session ...

--
David James

Special Stage Rally results archive <URL:http://www.tcs01.demon.co.uk/>



Tue, 10 Aug 2004 08:26:33 GMT  
 UCSD P-System Pascal...



Quote:

> Thanks for the link, although it doesn't seem to have anything
relevant
> to the Pascal language. And BTW, I learned Pascal using it, on my
Apple II,
> with it's expensive language card. Those were the days... :-)

> --

> --  Leiden, Holland  | web:   users.ncrvnet.nl/gmvdijk

I learned it on my TI, with it's expensive p-system card.
I hear it is the smallest p-system implementation ever. Also meaning
it is the slowest.
I was in the process of scanning the compiler manual at one point, but
apparently didn't get very far...


Tue, 10 Aug 2004 12:25:42 GMT  
 
 [ 19 post ]  Go to page: [1] [2]

 Relevant Pages 

1. UCSD-Psystem?

2. UCSD p-system?

3. *** UCSD-p system, Seattle DOS, CP/M-86 ***

4. *** UCSD-p system, Seattle DOS, CP/M-86 ***

5. Print PS files on a non PS printer?

6. FA: The UCSD Pascal Handbook

7. FA: The UCSD Pascal Handbook

8. Cross reference application for UCSD Pascal?

9. UCSD Pascal info?

10. help needed on UCSD pascal

11. UCSD Pascal

12. Cross reference application for UCSD Pascal?

 

 
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software