pascal dead ? 
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 pascal dead ?

What is so bad about Pascal that it isn't much used anymore ?


Mon, 03 Oct 2005 18:36:33 GMT  
 pascal dead ?

Quote:

> What is so bad about pascal that it isn't much used anymore ?

Just a general lack of interest.  C has taken the top position, so
everything that comes out is written in C.

Except from me.  I use Pascal only.
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Mon, 03 Oct 2005 15:59:54 GMT  
 pascal dead ?

Quote:

> What is so bad about pascal that it isn't much used anymore ?

Nothing really, hence it is much used still.

Just less used than the languages that, for various reasons*, gained
prominance during the 80's and 90's - c, c++, vb, delphi (which has a
pascal based language), java.

* Systems and OS programming, Unix, Games, Compiler vendors, Colleges,
Industry leaders etc etc.  It's all there in the archives, as it [the
alleged demise of pascal]  has been discussed at length before.



Mon, 03 Oct 2005 22:14:59 GMT  
 pascal dead ?

Quote:

> What is so bad about pascal that it isn't much used anymore ?

If "most used" is your criteria for "good", then C and Basic
are the best languages on the planet.

And McDonalds is the best tasting food on the planet.

Say ! Think for yourself. I know it hurts, but try it and you'll
like it.

--
It amazes me that programmers feel the need to program in
the same language as others. The advantages of different
hair growing products are better established than the
advantages of any particular choice of language.



Tue, 04 Oct 2005 00:49:40 GMT  
 pascal dead ?

Quote:

>What is so bad about pascal that it isn't much used anymore ?

  I still use to do quick programs. I was just using a program that I wrote a
few years ago to calculate resistance values for an electronic circuit. Its a
simple command line tool that does what I need it to do.

  Just yesterday I was using my guitar chord program that I wrote about six
months ago. Its a little fancier in that you use the up and down arrow keys to
select on the display the root note and the type of chord. It displays the
fretboard and hilights the notes of the chord you've selected on it. I only put
in about 15 chords that I have trouble remembering but if I had the time ( and
desire ) I could add a more extensive chord library.



Tue, 04 Oct 2005 04:51:57 GMT  
 pascal dead ?


Quote:
>What is so bad about pascal that it isn't much used anymore ?

I think the problem is that it is too easy to read, and it's too hard
to conceal bugs.  Who wants to sell a program that works?  How do you
make any money on maintenance?

Duncan Murdoch



Tue, 04 Oct 2005 06:45:07 GMT  
 pascal dead ?


Quote:
>I think the problem is that it is too easy to read, and it's too hard
>to conceal bugs.  Who wants to sell a program that works?  How do you
>make any money on maintenance?

Yes, if you're getting paid by the hour for a project, Pascal is a
poor choice.


Tue, 04 Oct 2005 11:19:19 GMT  
 pascal dead ?

Quote:

>I didn't say that most used equals best programming language. I was just
>wondering why pascal isn't used that much. I just thoughed it didn't had
>something other languages have now ...


> > What is so bad about pascal that it isn't much used anymore ?


>> If "most used" is your criteria for "good", then C and Basic
>> are the best languages on the planet.

>> And McDonalds is the best tasting food on the planet.

>> Say ! Think for yourself. I know it hurts, but try it and you'll
>> like it.

First, don't write me privately. If you have something to share that is usefull

Second, you did indeed imply that Pascal was "bad" for being unpopular,
reread what you wrote above ("what is so bad about Pascal").

There are two problems with the situation in computer languages today,
and two kinds of people creating those problems.

- The first is people who think they have to program in language X
just because everyone else is doing it (or appears to be doing it).

- The second is people who think that a language is not sucessful unless
it acheives mass majority use status.

Now, lets go back to popularity. What exactly are the most popular
programming languages, since that appears to be your criteria ?

I would certainly say that C/C++ is up there, but I would not be suprised
if Basic were more commonly used than C/C++, in terms of number of programmers.

At any rate, certainly C and Basic are good candidates for most popular languages
in use.

Now, what would number #3 be ?

I think there is an excellent chance that Pascal, in the form of Borland products
could indeed be #3. Certainly it is a race between Pascal and Java.

So where do you get the idea that "Pascal .. isn't much used anymore" ?

--
It amazes me that programmers feel the need to program in
the same language as others. The advantages of different
hair growing products are better established than the
advantages of any particular choice of language.



Tue, 04 Oct 2005 13:32:20 GMT  
 pascal dead ?

Quote:


> At any rate, certainly C and Basic are good candidates for most popular languages
> in use.

> Now, what would number #3 be ?

> I think there is an excellent chance that Pascal, in the form of Borland products
> could indeed be #3. Certainly it is a race between Pascal and Java.

Changing to tools that are _sold_ is a good way. Niche languages as PHP, Perl and python
are directly killed. Copies that Microsoft issues for free (to e.g. MCSE'rs) are also not
counted.

Then Borland with Delphi still has 10 something marketshare percent. And that is more
than the paid support for Perl etc etc.

Quote:
> So where do you get the idea that "Pascal .. isn't much used anymore" ?

Me? Bookstores.


Tue, 04 Oct 2005 17:37:37 GMT  
 pascal dead ?
Hear, hear!  I absolutely agree!  However, you forgot its "true"
biggest drawback, all those "Begin/end" pairs.  It is so much faster
to type curly braces (and they're so much easier to see ...).

Bob Schor
Pascal Enthusiast



Quote:


>>What is so bad about pascal that it isn't much used anymore ?

>I think the problem is that it is too easy to read, and it's too hard
>to conceal bugs.  Who wants to sell a program that works?  How do you
>make any money on maintenance?

>Duncan Murdoch



Wed, 05 Oct 2005 03:16:48 GMT  
 pascal dead ?


Quote:


> > At any rate, certainly C and Basic are good candidates for most popular
languages
> > in use.

> > Now, what would number #3 be ?

> > I think there is an excellent chance that Pascal, in the form of Borland
products
> > could indeed be #3. Certainly it is a race between Pascal and Java.

> Changing to tools that are _sold_ is a good way. Niche languages as PHP,
Perl and Python
> are directly killed. Copies that Microsoft issues for free (to e.g.

MCSE'rs) are also not

Quote:
> counted.

> Then Borland with Delphi still has 10 something marketshare percent. And
that is more
> than the paid support for Perl etc etc.

> > So where do you get the idea that "Pascal .. isn't much used anymore" ?

> Me? Bookstores.

Pascal has not died, it is still used.  Many Pascal programmers have been
forced (can you say Job Market?  The P is not a big value on your resume
these days) to convert to Java or C/C++.  Many who could not be forced have
been seduced away by Modula2, Modula3, and Oberon.  (Think Pascal, only
better and allowing the object-oriented features that make C++ and Java
sell.)

I advanced beyond programming to System Administrator and Engineer titles.
I still program on my time, in PERL, C, Pascal (at home) and whatever else I
need to get the job done right.  I venture to guess that many 'former'
Pascal programmers could claim something similar.  Why claim your $30 per
hour skill when you now work at a $50-$100 per hour (or more) job?

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Fri, 07 Oct 2005 05:40:31 GMT  
 pascal dead ?

Quote:

> Pascal has not died, it is still used.  Many Pascal programmers have been
> forced (can you say Job Market?  The P is not a big value on your resume
> these days) to convert to Java or C/C++.  Many who could not be forced have
> been seduced away by Modula2, Modula3, and Oberon.  (Think Pascal, only
> better and allowing the object-oriented features that make C++ and Java
> sell.)

> I advanced beyond programming to System Administrator and Engineer titles.
> I still program on my time, in PERL, C, Pascal (at home) and whatever else I
> need to get the job done right.  I venture to guess that many 'former'
> Pascal programmers could claim something similar.  Why claim your $30 per
> hour skill when you now work at a $50-$100 per hour (or more) job?

I still put Pascal on my resume, but so does everyone else. Nobody mentions
it, it is just something everyone assumes you were forced to do in college.

However, Pascal still sometimes is on peoples minds. I recall a project not
long ago where a large company had tried to attack their large bug rate problem
by buying a series of C "checker" tools (think superlint), and all of the
consequent restrictions it introduced were being discussed. One of the
programmers jokingly suggested "sheezz, we might as well be using Pascal...".

--
It amazes me that programmers feel the need to program in
the same language as others. The advantages of different
hair growing products are better established than the
advantages of any particular choice of language.



Fri, 07 Oct 2005 12:46:30 GMT  
 pascal dead ?

Quote:


>> counted.

>> Then Borland with Delphi still has 10 something marketshare percent. And
> that is more
>> than the paid support for Perl etc etc.

>> > So where do you get the idea that "Pascal .. isn't much used anymore" ?

>> Me? Bookstores.

> Pascal has not died, it is still used.  Many Pascal programmers have been
> forced (can you say Job Market?

I always had the idea that most Pascal programmers didn't go out on the IT
job-market. I myself got hooked on Pascal during my chemistry studies.

As a secondary skill, it is as good as always.

Quote:
> The P is not a big value on your resume these days) to convert to Java or
> C/C++.  Many who could not be forced have been seduced away by Modula2,
> Modula3, and Oberon.  (Think Pascal, only better and allowing the
> object-oriented features that make C++ and Java sell.)

The amount of M2,M3 and Oberon combined are still negliable compared to the
masses of Turbo Pascal and Delphi, and always have been. I did use TopSpeed
M2 for a while myself.

Quote:
> I advanced beyond programming to System Administrator and Engineer titles.

I'm still hoping to finish a bachelor in CS this year. However I still have
hope to pick up and finish the big one (Masters in Chemical Engineering)
that has been stalled for a while.

Quote:
> I still program on my time, in PERL, C, Pascal (at home) and whatever else I
> need to get the job done right.  I venture to guess that many 'former'
> Pascal programmers could claim something similar.  Why claim your $30 per
> hour skill when you now work at a $50-$100 per hour (or more) job?

Very true. I always say that the biggest Pascal killer wasn't any of the
languages you mention above, but Matlab, which is pretty much why science and engineering
dropped Pascal.


Sat, 08 Oct 2005 12:51:44 GMT  
 
 [ 13 post ] 

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