good book for learning Smalltalk? 
Author Message
 good book for learning Smalltalk?

Hello!

First of all, if there are any good internet resources for my  
question, then please point me to them.

As mentioned in the subject line, I am looking for a good (of course  
:-) book for starting with Smalltalk. I have good knowledge of ANSI-
C++, Assember and (Visual) Basic, thus I would prefer a book which  
also depicts the differences between Smalltalk and the 'more common'  
languages.

Thanks for yor help,
Robert



Mon, 15 Aug 2005 22:23:00 GMT  
 good book for learning Smalltalk?

Robert Lange wrote

Quote:
> Hello!

> First of all, if there are any good internet resources for my
> question, then please point me to them.

Have a look here: http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/WebPages/FreeBooks.html


Tue, 16 Aug 2005 02:33:22 GMT  
 good book for learning Smalltalk?
Robert,

Learning Smalltalk is a great idea ;-)

The internet resource you are looking for is certainly
http://www.whysmalltalk.com or http://www.goodstart.com

There are some (in my opinion) brilliant books to have a look at. I'd
personally recommend:

Simon Lewis: The Art and Science of Smalltalk. It is pretty much
IDE-independent and focusses on the way you work in a smalltalk
environment and get the best out of it. It also shows you how elegant
and clear Smalltalk is.

Chamond Liu: Smalltalk, Objects and Design. This one is a little bit
biassed on VisualAge, but not so much that it wouldn't be useful for
other environments.

Unfortunately, both seem to be out of print (at least thats what a short
glimpse at Amazon.DE says - maybe I'm wrong)

If you are looking for books that compare Smalltalk to other languages,
the only one that comes to my mind is  Caleb Drake: Object-Oriented
Programming with C++ and SmallTalk . I only had a short look at it, so I
can't tell you whether it is good or not.

You will also find good online material when you visit the sites I
mentioned in the beginning.

HTH

Joachim

--
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D-71642 Ludwigsburg
Telefon: +49 7141 56 10 86 0         Fax: +49 7141 56 10 86 1



Tue, 16 Aug 2005 03:14:29 GMT  
 good book for learning Smalltalk?

Quote:

> As mentioned in the subject line, I am looking for a good (of course  
> :-) book for starting with SmallTalk. I have good knowledge of ANSI-
> C++, Assember and (Visual) Basic, thus I would prefer a book which  
> also depicts the differences between Smalltalk and the 'more common'  
> languages.

If you are interested in Smalltalk you should have a look at design
patterns, too. I am sure You will recognise a lot of patterns no
matter which Smalltalk environment you choose.

When I started Smalltalk (Feb 1997, C++ background) I first read all
the books availiable with VisualWorks (which was a good start and
pretty much to read) and the famos "Design Patterns" (by Erich Gamma,
Richard Helm, Ralph Johnson, John Vlissides). Later I discovered "The
Design Patterns Smalltalk Companion" (by Sherman R. Alpert, Kyle
Brown, Bobby Woolf). It describes all the patterns from "Design
Patterns" but from the Smalltalk point of view.

I think design patterns are important, no matter which OO-Language you
choose. But with both pattern books You will be able to compare
Smalltalk implementations with C++ examples and learn a lot about
Smalltalk.

(As you are from TU Chemnitz: The German version of "Design Patterns"
is called "Entwurfsmuster".)

Viele Gr?e
Sascha



Sat, 20 Aug 2005 19:38:34 GMT  
 good book for learning Smalltalk?
Dear Robert,
    as well as getting one of the books mentioned by others in this thread
to learn Smalltalk, get Kent Beck's 'Smalltalk Best Practice Patterns' to
help you learn how to write it well.  This book shows you almost all the
basic idioms and you won't go wrong if you make it your coding standard.  My
few comments on it are:

Chapter 4: State
 - his suggestion re default (pp95-6) privacy of getters and setters is not
standard smalltalk usage (or mine)

 - I supplement his instvar remarks with Bobby Woolf's instvar
classification pattern.  This was published in an old ST report and may be
on the web somewhere;  briefly:
    * where sensible, classify instvars as key, state or cache
    * set key instvars in creation methods and provide standard getters, no
setters (i.e. as Kent suggests in his set... methods)
    * set state instvars in initialize method, provide standard getters and
setters
    * give cache instvars lazy getters, no setters;  nil them in flushCache
method(s), sent whenever a value they depend on changes

Chapter 5: Collections
 - he omits allSatisfy: and anySatisfy: (pp151)

Chapter 7: Formatting
 - return pattern:  if all branches of a code expression return, put a
single return at its start, not multiple returns in its branches

I asume you are aquainted with the theory of XP and will be using SUnit to
help you learn by writing a test and then running it to drive writing code
that passes the test.  If not, the internet resources mentioned by Joachim
will help you get started on this.

            Yours faithfully
                Niall Ross



Mon, 22 Aug 2005 00:33:30 GMT  
 good book for learning Smalltalk?

Quote:
> Dear Robert,
>     as well as getting one of the books mentioned by others in this thread
> to learn Smalltalk, get Kent Beck's 'Smalltalk Best Practice Patterns' to
> help you learn how to write it well.  This book shows you almost all the
> basic idioms and you won't go wrong if you make it your coding standard.
My
> few comments on it are:

[snip]

Niall,

You recommended Kent's book and didn't comment on chapter 8. Did you read
it? Did you try out the code? In your opinion, does it work?

Regards,

Peter van Rooijen



Mon, 22 Aug 2005 08:25:47 GMT  
 good book for learning Smalltalk?
Dear Peter,

Quote:
> You recommended Kent's book and didn't comment on chapter 8. Did you read
> it? Did you try out the code? In your opinion, does it work?

I think chapter 8 is an OK brief run-though of using the patterns which
would help a newbie reader.  It's the one part of the book I haven't
re-read, and I haven't tried it out, so I cannot say if it has any errors.
Having respect for Kent's coding skills, I would assume it would work in the
dialect Kent uses.  You are better qualified than I to say whether it is
Lowest-Common-Denominator smalltalk in general (which arguably such an
example should be).  His class creation code is not LCD (or not that I
recognise) and though I'd have a poor opinion of any newbie who had
difficulty translating it to their dialect, a sentence saying so would have
done no harm.  My impression was that the rest of it was LCD.  I have used
some of the other code in the book, e.g. the breadth-first tree-walking code
on page 158 and the previous-and-next-handling code on page 153, and found
it to work.

Although I felt 'The Design Patterns Smalltalk Companion' (Alpert et al)
should have had chapters on smalltalk-specific (perhaps I mean
dynamic-language-specific) patterns, not just replicated the stiffly-typed
patterns of the gang-of-four patterns book, I recall thinking its
illustration chapter, which came early in the book instead of at the end,
would read well for a newbie.  Of course, its patterns are at a different
level from Kent's;  the two books complement each other.  (That said,
someone starting out in Smalltalk who can only afford one book should get
Kent's.)

            Yours faithfully
                Niall Ross



Mon, 22 Aug 2005 19:50:42 GMT  
 good book for learning Smalltalk?

Quote:
> Dear Peter,

> > You recommended Kent's book and didn't comment on chapter 8. Did you
read
> > it? Did you try out the code? In your opinion, does it work?

Hi Niall,

Quote:
> I think chapter 8 is an OK brief run-though of using the patterns which
> would help a newbie reader.

It could have been, but as it is, it mostly confuses (if you try it out -
especially when you are a newbie).

Quote:
> It's the one part of the book I haven't
> re-read, and I haven't tried it out, so I cannot say if it has any errors.
> Having respect for Kent's coding skills, I would assume it would work in
the
> dialect Kent uses.

Surely you know assuming things is dangerous ;-).

Quote:
> You are better qualified than I to say whether it is
> Lowest-Common-Denominator smalltalk in general (which arguably such an
> example should be).  His class creation code is not LCD (or not that I
> recognise) and though I'd have a poor opinion of any newbie who had
> difficulty translating it to their dialect, a sentence saying so would
have
> done no harm.  My impression was that the rest of it was LCD.

"LCD"-ness is not the issue. The issue is that the development example
doesn't solve the problem it sets out to solve. Read the text and you'll see
it.

By the way, did you notice that the term "Lowest Common Denominator" is
really strange to use for denoting the collection of elements of Smalltalk
that occur in each dialect (which is what I'm pretty sure you are talking
about)?

Only the "Common" part of it really applies. "Highest Common Factor" seems
to be more accurate. I suspect the mathematical analog would be "Greatest
Common Divisor". So, on that premise we should start talking about
"GCD-Smalltalk". But that doesn't sound so good either. I think I like "Core
Smalltalk" better to denote this concept.

Note that the term "Common Base Smalltalk" is already being used to denote
(proposed) implementations based on an improved and extended version of the
Ansi Smalltalk standard. The project is not that active I am afraid (I know
you know this, Niall, it is for the information of others).

Quote:
> I have used
> some of the other code in the book, e.g. the breadth-first tree-walking
code
> on page 158 and the previous-and-next-handling code on page 153, and found
> it to work.

Well, actually the book is excellent. I agree with your high opinion of it.
It is much to be preferred as a style guide (even if it isn't specifically
one) to a book such as 'Smalltalk with Style'.

Chapter 8 just falls out of line. Maybe Kent was rushed. Maybe we should
attempt a rewrite of just that chapter.

Quote:
> Although I felt 'The Design Patterns Smalltalk Companion' (Alpert et al)
> should have had chapters on smalltalk-specific (perhaps I mean
> dynamic-language-specific) patterns, not just replicated the stiffly-typed
> patterns of the gang-of-four patterns book, I recall thinking its
> illustration chapter, which came early in the book instead of at the end,
> would read well for a newbie.  Of course, its patterns are at a different
> level from Kent's;  the two books complement each other.

Alpert et al is certainly not one of the (first) books to recommend. Even
for a pure Smalltalker, the "real" Design Patterns (aka GOF - Gang Of Four -
Gamma, Helms, Johnson, Vlissides) is much more useful.

Quote:
> (That said,
> someone starting out in Smalltalk who can only afford one book should get
> Kent's.)

I agree with that absolutely.

Regards,

Peter van Rooijen
Amsterdam

Quote:
>             Yours faithfully
>                 Niall Ross



Mon, 22 Aug 2005 21:42:09 GMT  
 good book for learning Smalltalk?
Dear Peter,

Quote:
> ... the book is excellent. ...
> Chapter 8 just falls out of line.  ... "LCD"-ness is
> not the issue. The issue is that the development
> example doesn't solve the problem it sets out to
> solve. ... Maybe Kent was rushed.

I agree the last chapter looks rushed (we all know that 'the end is in
sight' feeling when near release of code or text :-)).  Also, the example (I
think) depends on the Money instVars being key, not state, which is
unintuitive to newbies, so something I would have pointed out (and commented
in code).  If it has any actual errors, they got past me when I read the
book.  I read your remark to mean you think the example misleading rather
than actually errored.

Quote:
> Maybe we should attempt
> a rewrite of just that chapter.

If you post corrections / clarifications, and people agree, then you could
put them on a wiki page.  I could link my earlier posts' remarks (I will
probably add them to my Smalltalk for Java Programers pages when I next
visit those).  Then anyone recommending the book could mention the page (and
Kent could use its contents in a second edition).

Quote:
> > ... (That said, someone starting out in Smalltalk
>> who can only afford one book should get Kent's.)

> I agree with that absolutely.

All the more reason to correct any last chapter hiccough, if there is such.

Quote:
> ... the term "Lowest Common Denominator" is really strange
> to use for denoting the collection of elements of Smalltalk
> that occur in each dialect ... I like "Core Smalltalk" better...
> the term "Common Base Smalltalk" is already being used to
> denote (proposed) implementations based on an improved and
> extended version of the Ansi Smalltalk standard ...

I was under the impression I had learned the term Lowest Common Denominator
Smalltalk from you :-) (in 2001 at Essen while discussing your CS project
there;  I certainly learned it there but may be misremembering who suggested
it to me).  I agree it's an unflattering term for the concept.  Core
Smalltalk is better but I think Common Base Smalltalk best;  we can
distinguish the currently-existing Common Base, the proposed extended Common
Base, etc.  That said, I'm happy with whatever term people like.  An agreed
term would be useful as the concept comes up from time to time in
discussion.

Quote:
> > Although I felt 'The Design Patterns Smalltalk Companion' (Alpert et al)
> > should have had chapters on smalltalk-specific (perhaps I mean
> > dynamic-language-specific) patterns, not just replicated the
stiffly-typed
> > patterns of the gang-of-four patterns book, I recall thinking its
> > illustration chapter, which came early in the book instead of at the
end,
> > would read well for a newbie.  Of course, its patterns are at a
different
> > level from Kent's;  the two books complement each other.

> Alpert et al is certainly not one of the (first) books to recommend. Even
> for a pure Smalltalker, the "real" Design Patterns (aka GOF - Gang Of
Four -
> Gamma, Helms, Johnson, Vlissides) is much more useful.

Not my impression.  As indicated, I thought 'The Design Patterns Smalltalk
Companion' could have been better, but I was also dissatisfied with the GOF
book;  my main criticism of 'The Design Patterns Smalltalk Companion' was
that it followed GOF too closely.  Anyway, the top poster now has our
opinions and may make his choice.

            Yours faithfully
                Niall Ross



Tue, 23 Aug 2005 00:54:41 GMT  
 good book for learning Smalltalk?
"LCD" is common American usage with basically the opposite of its true
meaning.  It was obviously heard by someone with little knowledge of math
and applied to situations based on what it sounded like it meant.


Quote:
> Dear Peter,

> > ... the book is excellent. ...
> > Chapter 8 just falls out of line.  ... "LCD"-ness is
> > not the issue. The issue is that the development
> > example doesn't solve the problem it sets out to
> > solve. ... Maybe Kent was rushed.

> I agree the last chapter looks rushed (we all know that 'the end is in
> sight' feeling when near release of code or text :-)).  Also, the example
(I
> think) depends on the Money instVars being key, not state, which is
> unintuitive to newbies, so something I would have pointed out (and
commented
> in code).  If it has any actual errors, they got past me when I read the
> book.  I read your remark to mean you think the example misleading rather
> than actually errored.

> > Maybe we should attempt
> > a rewrite of just that chapter.

> If you post corrections / clarifications, and people agree, then you could
> put them on a wiki page.  I could link my earlier posts' remarks (I will
> probably add them to my Smalltalk for Java Programers pages when I next
> visit those).  Then anyone recommending the book could mention the page
(and
> Kent could use its contents in a second edition).

> > > ... (That said, someone starting out in Smalltalk
> >> who can only afford one book should get Kent's.)

> > I agree with that absolutely.

> All the more reason to correct any last chapter hiccough, if there is
such.

> > ... the term "Lowest Common Denominator" is really strange
> > to use for denoting the collection of elements of Smalltalk
> > that occur in each dialect ... I like "Core Smalltalk" better...
> > the term "Common Base Smalltalk" is already being used to
> > denote (proposed) implementations based on an improved and
> > extended version of the Ansi Smalltalk standard ...

> I was under the impression I had learned the term Lowest Common
Denominator
> Smalltalk from you :-) (in 2001 at Essen while discussing your CS project
> there;  I certainly learned it there but may be misremembering who
suggested
> it to me).  I agree it's an unflattering term for the concept.  Core
> Smalltalk is better but I think Common Base Smalltalk best;  we can
> distinguish the currently-existing Common Base, the proposed extended
Common
> Base, etc.  That said, I'm happy with whatever term people like.  An
agreed
> term would be useful as the concept comes up from time to time in
> discussion.

> > > Although I felt 'The Design Patterns Smalltalk Companion' (Alpert et
al)
> > > should have had chapters on smalltalk-specific (perhaps I mean
> > > dynamic-language-specific) patterns, not just replicated the
> stiffly-typed
> > > patterns of the gang-of-four patterns book, I recall thinking its
> > > illustration chapter, which came early in the book instead of at the
> end,
> > > would read well for a newbie.  Of course, its patterns are at a
> different
> > > level from Kent's;  the two books complement each other.

> > Alpert et al is certainly not one of the (first) books to recommend.
Even
> > for a pure Smalltalker, the "real" Design Patterns (aka GOF - Gang Of
> Four -
> > Gamma, Helms, Johnson, Vlissides) is much more useful.

> Not my impression.  As indicated, I thought 'The Design Patterns Smalltalk
> Companion' could have been better, but I was also dissatisfied with the
GOF
> book;  my main criticism of 'The Design Patterns Smalltalk Companion' was
> that it followed GOF too closely.  Anyway, the top poster now has our
> opinions and may make his choice.

>             Yours faithfully
>                 Niall Ross



Thu, 25 Aug 2005 00:59:57 GMT  
 good book for learning Smalltalk?


Wed, 18 Jun 1902 08:00:00 GMT  
 good book for learning Smalltalk?


Quote:
>Although I felt 'The Design Patterns Smalltalk Companion' (Alpert et al)
>should have had chapters on smalltalk-specific (perhaps I mean
>dynamic-language-specific) patterns, not just replicated the stiffly-typed
>patterns of the gang-of-four patterns book, ...

Interesting point you mention here. I am not aware of any
Smalltalk-specific Design Patterns. Could you elaborate on them or
provide a link to some Internet resource where I can find out more?
Thanks.

Best regards,
Paul



Thu, 25 Aug 2005 23:00:29 GMT  
 good book for learning Smalltalk?

Quote:


> >Although I felt 'The Design Patterns Smalltalk Companion' (Alpert et al)
> >should have had chapters on smalltalk-specific (perhaps I mean
> >dynamic-language-specific) patterns, not just replicated the
stiffly-typed
> >patterns of the gang-of-four patterns book, ...

> Interesting point you mention here. I am not aware of any
> Smalltalk-specific Design Patterns. Could you elaborate on them or
> provide a link to some Internet resource where I can find out more?

Hi Paul,

1) DNU handling (so DNU and DNR - does not respond - are not the same)
2) Pluggable selector
3) Pluggable block (e.g, sortBlock:)
4) Internal iterator
5) Universal collection
6) Universal proxy
7) Behavior transfer (e.g., defining Symbol>>value: x ^x perform: self)
8) Class behavior
9) nil subclass
10) Class extensions (loose methods)
11) Instance-specific behavior
12) become:
13) Literal array (in the sense as used by VW for windowSpecs)
14) Edit-and-resume
15) Self-defining structure
16) Base library extension/modification
17) Continuous run time
18) Snapshot
19) Method overrides (standard in VW)
20) Selector composition
21) Run time source compilation
22) Reification of activation records, so you can reflect on them
23) Universal inspector
24) Dynamic transform/rewrite (e.g., for refactoring)
25) Doit-scripts
26) Control structures in the library, not the language (so you can add your
own)
27) Optimization of selected selectors
28) Pluggable parser/lexer/compiler (so you can dynamically change the
syntax or the whole source language)
29) selector namespacing (S#)
30) Class versioning (Gemstone)
31) Instance migration
32) Per-method compilation
33) Stripping (so you can include all objects, not just code, in your
runtime)
34) You can send messages to and change the behavior of everything,
including integers, arrays, metaclasses
35) User primitives
36) User libraries on equal footing with base libraries
37) IDE is a Smalltalk application like any other, so just as changeable as
anything else
38) Transparent SmallInteger-LargeInteger conversion

Off the top of my head. Nothing may be absolutely 100% Smalltalk-specific,
but I bet you'll find these patterns used much more in Smalltalk than in
most other languages.

Interesting question. I wonder what others come up with. Might be nice to
make a list for the specific purpose of explaining and demonstrating
Smalltalk features to programmers working in other languages.

Regards,

Peter van Rooijen
Amsterdam

Quote:
> Thanks.

> Best regards,
> Paul



Fri, 26 Aug 2005 02:00:21 GMT  
 good book for learning Smalltalk?
Peter,

        great list!  This should be on a Wiki somewhere with explanatory notes
and examples under each heading.  Also there's some taxonomy here; e.g.
6) is an instance of 1)...

We need a pan-Smalltalk wiki; I'd like to see a single site accessed
from several places, e.g. UIUC's root & STIC.  Peter's list below,
David's recent Smalltalk Capabilities and my Smalltalk Implementation
list all belong on a pan-Smalltalk wiki.  How about it Ralph and Jason,
could you arrange something?  wiki.cs.uiuc.edu/Smalltalk.  I'd suggest
using scgwiki.iam.unibe.ch:8080/SmalltalkWiki, but at least this side of
the pond I can't access it reliably (its down as I write)

Quote:





> > >Although I felt 'The Design Patterns Smalltalk Companion' (Alpert et al)
> > >should have had chapters on smalltalk-specific (perhaps I mean
> > >dynamic-language-specific) patterns, not just replicated the
> stiffly-typed
> > >patterns of the gang-of-four patterns book, ...

> > Interesting point you mention here. I am not aware of any
> > Smalltalk-specific Design Patterns. Could you elaborate on them or
> > provide a link to some Internet resource where I can find out more?

> Hi Paul,

> 1) DNU handling (so DNU and DNR - does not respond - are not the same)
> 2) Pluggable selector
> 3) Pluggable block (e.g, sortBlock:)
> 4) Internal iterator
> 5) Universal collection
> 6) Universal proxy
> 7) Behavior transfer (e.g., defining Symbol>>value: x ^x perform: self)
> 8) Class behavior
> 9) nil subclass
> 10) Class extensions (loose methods)
> 11) Instance-specific behavior
> 12) become:
> 13) Literal array (in the sense as used by VW for windowSpecs)
> 14) Edit-and-resume
> 15) Self-defining structure
> 16) Base library extension/modification
> 17) Continuous run time
> 18) Snapshot
> 19) Method overrides (standard in VW)
> 20) Selector composition
> 21) Run time source compilation
> 22) Reification of activation records, so you can reflect on them
> 23) Universal inspector
> 24) Dynamic transform/rewrite (e.g., for refactoring)
> 25) Doit-scripts
> 26) Control structures in the library, not the language (so you can add your
> own)
> 27) Optimization of selected selectors
> 28) Pluggable parser/lexer/compiler (so you can dynamically change the
> syntax or the whole source language)
> 29) selector namespacing (S#)
> 30) Class versioning (Gemstone)
> 31) Instance migration
> 32) Per-method compilation
> 33) Stripping (so you can include all objects, not just code, in your
> runtime)
> 34) You can send messages to and change the behavior of everything,
> including integers, arrays, metaclasses
> 35) User primitives
> 36) User libraries on equal footing with base libraries
> 37) IDE is a Smalltalk application like any other, so just as changeable as
> anything else
> 38) Transparent SmallInteger-LargeInteger conversion

> Off the top of my head. Nothing may be absolutely 100% Smalltalk-specific,
> but I bet you'll find these patterns used much more in Smalltalk than in
> most other languages.

> Interesting question. I wonder what others come up with. Might be nice to
> make a list for the specific purpose of explaining and demonstrating
> Smalltalk features to programmers working in other languages.

> Regards,

> Peter van Rooijen
> Amsterdam

> > Thanks.

> > Best regards,
> > Paul

--
_______________,,,^..^,,,____________________________
Eliot Miranda              Smalltalk - Scene not herd


Fri, 26 Aug 2005 05:53:33 GMT  
 good book for learning Smalltalk?
Dear Eliot and Peter,
    thanks for a long list;  it saves me much time in writing this reply as
I need only add a few observations.

Quote:
> ... there's some taxonomy here; e.g.
> 6) is an instance of 1)...

And there will be aggregate patterns:  patterns built from lower-level ones
that are also worth documenting.

Meta-data patterns, e.g.,

 - Using DNU to give a common interface to meta-data and code (I learnt this
one from Michel Tilman)

 - Using an imitation of Object subclass: #Class repeatedly in meta-data to
make it self-configurable (I devised this one myself;  I daresay others have
used it)

XP Test patterns, e.g.
 - UI-driving tests (less brittle than KVM-simulating tests, more coverage
than model-layer tests)

Meta-programming patterns, e.g.
 - customisable deep walking (deep copying, deep comparison, deep visiting,
...)

As Peter remarks, one may debate how far these are merely harder in other
languages and how far they are unacceptably hard for practical commercial
use.  I gave a talk at ESUG 1999 explaining why type issues made
meta-programming patterns extremely hard (and stiff) in stiffly-typed
languages.  Stuff I have seen since in aspect research trying to overcome
these obstacles (e.g. huge type-switching case statements) has tended to
illustrate the argument.

Quote:
> This should be on a Wiki somewhere with explanatory
> notes and examples under each heading.

On their own pages;  put the list on the main page and, when anyone has time
to write the first example for a heading, they make it a link.

Quote:
> We need a pan-Smalltalk wiki; I'd like to see a single site accessed
> from several places, e.g. UIUC's root & STIC. ...

I may be missing something but wouldn't just one page pointing to the
various Smalltalk wiki's suffice;  Jason already has that (it didn't have
scgwiki.iam.unibe.ch:8080/SmalltalkWiki last I looked).  If a pan-Smaltalk
wiki is needed ...

Quote:
> I'd suggest using scgwiki.iam.unibe.ch:8080/SmalltalkWiki,
> but at least this side of the pond I can't access it reliably

... Stephane, Roel will this be fixed (I've not seen any problems myself;
obviously a wiki Eliot has trouble reaching isn't the ideal root)?  You,
Ralph and Jason would seem to be the group who should decide if a
pan-Smalltalk wiki were in fact wanted.

Quote:
> Peter's list, David's recent Smalltalk Capabilities and my Smalltalk
> Implementation list all belong on a pan-Smalltalk wiki..

Is the smalltalk cookbook swiki

    http://www.*-*-*.com/

the right place for a smalltalk patterns list?  If not, I suggest
scgwiki.iam.unibe.ch:8080/SmalltalkWiki or UIUC's Camp Smalltalk wiki.

I've pencilled in this weekend as a time to create a page as I propose
above.  Anyone whose time is{*filter*} heavy on their hands feel free to get
in ahead of me.

            Yours faithfully
                Niall Ross



Fri, 26 Aug 2005 20:24:59 GMT  
 
 [ 29 post ]  Go to page: [1] [2]

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