(ANNOUNCE) New Commercial Software Product Developed Using Smalltalk 
Author Message
 (ANNOUNCE) New Commercial Software Product Developed Using Smalltalk

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

December 27, 2001

New Commercial Software Product Developed Using Smalltalk

Sun? MicrosystemsJava? language (NasdaqNM:SUNW) loses out to Little
Known Programming Language

Raleigh, NC SCG Associates LLC (SCG), a boutique Software Development
company based in North Carolina, formally launched TradePerformance?
Version 1.0 this week. TradePerformance? is a full life-cycle management
tool for stock market investors, offering planning, management,
tracking, record keeping and tax reporting features in an intuitive,
easy to use and graphically pleasing package. (See
http://www.*-*-*.com/ for further details). All these features
were delivered using the Smalltalk Programming language

"Maximizing Programmer Productivity Seen as Key"

"Even though Smalltalk is over twenty years old, it is still the best
language available for maximizing programmer productivity. In our world,
programmer productivity and time to market are critical to staying
ahead. Instead of struggling with the nit-picky rules and unimaginably
complex details imposed by Java, Smalltalk allows our programmers to
focus on the business problem which gets our jobs done faster." Steve
Geringer, Chief Executive Officer said.

"Like Rubbing Two Sticks Together"

"Using Java was like rubbing two sticks together. With Java, its a
miracle any new systems get built at all. Sometimes, it takes an act of
Congress just to get a clean compile. Our programmers were practically
throwing themselves off the roof, and some had to enter a rehab clinic
after working with Java." Steve Geringer, Chief Executive Officer adds.

Smalltalk is a language for computer software construction that was
pioneered at the Xeroxa Palo Alto Research Center (NYSE:XRX). It is the
progenitor of all Object Oriented Languages on the market today
including Java, C++ etc. Many excellent Smalltalk ideas were taken and
redone in a crummy way in Java.

"Java Bubble"

Java is a mediocre computer language, it is remarkably weak by
comparison and it takes a long time to get any work done, that is, IF
you can get it installed properly. Millions of people foolishly flocked
to the use of Java during the Internet bubble of the late 90s. However,
there are recent signs that the Java bubble has burst as well.

Established in 1995, SCG has delivered Smalltalk based products and
services to companies in industries such as insurance, banking and
financial, and telecommunications. For more information about
TradePerformance?, please visit the products website at:
http://www.*-*-*.com/

TradePerformance is a Trademark of SCG Associates, LLC. Sun, Sun
Microsystems, and Java, are trademarks or registered trademarks of Sun
Microsystems, Inc. in the United States and other countries. Xerox is a
registered trademark of Xerox Corporation in the United States and other
countries. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein
may be the trademarks of their respective owners.

###



Thu, 17 Jun 2004 04:49:30 GMT  
 (ANNOUNCE) New Commercial Software Product Developed Using Smalltalk

Quote:

>"Java Bubble"

>Java is a mediocre computer language, it is remarkably weak by
>comparison and it takes a long time to get any work done, that is, IF
>you can get it installed properly. Millions of people foolishly flocked
>to the use of Java during the Internet bubble of the late 90s. However,
>there are recent signs that the Java bubble has burst as well.

Smalltalk is a great language, and deserves better than this kind of
silly 'Java envy'.  There is absolutely no sign of any decrease in
Java use - quite the reverse.  It increasingly looks like Java will become
the most widely used development language within a couple of years.

Smalltalk sellers should learn from Java - constant rubbishing of Java
combined with self-delusion about the state of the software market
does no one any good.

Steve



Thu, 17 Jun 2004 06:49:18 GMT  
 (ANNOUNCE) New Commercial Software Product Developed Using Smalltalk

Quote:


>>"Java Bubble"

>>Java is a mediocre computer language, it is remarkably weak by
>>comparison and it takes a long time to get any work done, that is, IF
>>you can get it installed properly. Millions of people foolishly flocked
>>to the use of Java during the Internet bubble of the late 90s. However,
>>there are recent signs that the Java bubble has burst as well.

> Smalltalk is a great language, and deserves better than this kind of
> silly 'Java envy'.  There is absolutely no sign of any decrease in Java
> use - quite the reverse.  It increasingly looks like Java will become
> the most widely used development language within a couple of years.

> Smalltalk sellers should learn from Java - constant rubbishing of Java
> combined with self-delusion about the state of the software market does
> no one any good.

> Steve

This made me smile.  I even agree with most of the points.  I hope,
though, that this is not intended for public consumption.  Smalltalk will
benefit from people being drawn to take a look at it.  I fear that this
press release, would cause alienation.

I'm surprised that this press release focuses on the technology used to
build the product rather than the qualities of the product itself.  But as
a technology promotion piece, I suggest retaining the parts that promote
the strengts of Smalltalk, and the parts that make objective comparasons
between Smalltalk and other technologies.  I would loose the bits that
just bash other technologies.

It is *great* to hear of a new product using Smalltalk, and of a company
that understands the real commercial benefits Smalltalk can bring.



Thu, 17 Jun 2004 08:40:07 GMT  
 (ANNOUNCE) New Commercial Software Product Developed Using Smalltalk

Quote:



[snip]

Quote:

> Smalltalk sellers should learn from Java - constant rubbishing of Java
> combined with self-delusion about the state of the software market
> does no one any good.

If the world were rational and managers in the USA chose a development
language and environment based upon objective measures and features,
this might be true.  However, a lot of such folks simply look over
their shoulders at what their competitors or clients are using, and
do the same.  This is natural.  Most markets and organizations need
most of managers' decisions to be conservative.  They are simply
evaluating the development environment the same way, correct or not.
Once upon a time the dearth of Smalltalk programmers was an important
factor in choice of environment, although it never was as important
an issue as some claimed.  (Delphi, quite rightly, has its place,
for instance.)  But today, it's likely the market leaders turn the
world upside down every 3-5 years, whether that be Java-centrism or
dot-Net-centrism, for whatever reasons.  Smalltalk and, with a
wholly different outlook, the various C++'s look like the conservative
choices these days.

  --jtg

[snip]

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------

 The Smalltalk Idiom                     http://www.algebraist.com/
*********************************************************************
             "Smalltalk?  Yes, it's really that slick."
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Want to know more?  Check out
           http://www.dnsmith.com/SmallFAQ/
           http://www.object-arts.com/DolphinWhitePaper.htm
           http://st-www.cs.uiuc.edu/users/johnson/smalltalk/
*********************************************************************



Thu, 17 Jun 2004 07:46:43 GMT  
 (ANNOUNCE) New Commercial Software Product Developed Using Smalltalk

Quote:


>>"Java Bubble"

>>Java is a mediocre computer language, it is remarkably weak by
>>comparison and it takes a long time to get any work done, that is, IF
>>you can get it installed properly. Millions of people foolishly flocked
>>to the use of Java during the Internet bubble of the late 90s. However,
>>there are recent signs that the Java bubble has burst as well.

> Smalltalk is a great language, and deserves better than this kind of
> silly 'Java envy'.  There is absolutely no sign of any decrease in
> Java use - quite the reverse.  It increasingly looks like Java will become
> the most widely used development language within a couple of years.

I doubt it - Java use has peaked, and will now be challenged by C#.  The
next fad has hit the industry, as I long assumed it would

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> Smalltalk sellers should learn from Java - constant rubbishing of Java
> combined with self-delusion about the state of the software market
> does no one any good.

> Steve



Thu, 17 Jun 2004 07:53:58 GMT  
 (ANNOUNCE) New Commercial Software Product Developed Using Smalltalk
Well BFD. All in the development world has known this for quite sometime.
The only problem is AISI (as I see it). Smalltalk has lack of marketing.
And,
marketing requires deniro. But... I still have my deniro on VW and Cincom.
Hopefully the "powers that be" at Cincom will take notice of the Sun MIC.
strategies and
the way it has pushed Java all over the world. Tout solving business issues
first. We know the technology is superior. The technology issues will take
care
of themsevles. But, in order to make this happen. Licensing issues will have
to evolve as well.

Quote:

> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

> December 27, 2001

> New Commercial Software Product Developed Using Smalltalk

> SunT Microsystems'JavaT language (NasdaqNM:SUNW) loses out to Little
> Known Programming Language

> Raleigh, NC - SCG Associates LLC (SCG), a boutique Software Development
> company based in North Carolina, formally launched TradePerformanceT
> Version 1.0 this week. TradePerformanceT is a full life-cycle management
> tool for stock market investors, offering planning, management,
> tracking, record keeping and tax reporting features in an intuitive,
> easy to use and graphically pleasing package. (See
> http://www.TradePerformance.com for further details). All these features
> were delivered using the Smalltalk Programming language

> "Maximizing Programmer Productivity Seen as Key"

> "Even though Smalltalk is over twenty years old, it is still the best
> language available for maximizing programmer productivity. In our world,
> programmer productivity and time to market are critical to staying
> ahead. Instead of struggling with the nit-picky rules and unimaginably
> complex details imposed by Java, Smalltalk allows our programmers to
> focus on the business problem which gets our jobs done faster." Steve
> Geringer, Chief Executive Officer said.

> "Like Rubbing Two Sticks Together"

> "Using Java was like rubbing two sticks together. With Java, it's a
> miracle any new systems get built at all. Sometimes, it takes an act of
> Congress just to get a clean compile. Our programmers were practically
> throwing themselves off the roof, and some had to enter a rehab clinic
> after working with Java." Steve Geringer, Chief Executive Officer adds.

> Smalltalk is a language for computer software construction that was
> pioneered at the Xeroxa Palo Alto Research Center (NYSE:XRX). It is the
> progenitor of all Object Oriented Languages on the market today
> including Java, C++ etc. Many excellent Smalltalk ideas were taken and
> redone in a crummy way in Java.

> "Java Bubble"

> Java is a mediocre computer language, it is remarkably weak by
> comparison and it takes a long time to get any work done, that is, IF
> you can get it installed properly. Millions of people foolishly flocked
> to the use of Java during the Internet bubble of the late 90's. However,
> there are recent signs that the Java bubble has burst as well.

> Established in 1995, SCG has delivered Smalltalk based products and
> services to companies in industries such as insurance, banking and
> financial, and telecommunications. For more information about
> TradePerformanceT, please visit the product's website at:
> http://www.TradePerformance.com

> TradePerformance is a Trademark of SCG Associates, LLC. Sun, Sun
> Microsystems, and Java, are trademarks or registered trademarks of Sun
> Microsystems, Inc. in the United States and other countries. Xerox is a
> registered trademark of Xerox Corporation in the United States and other
> countries. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein
> may be the trademarks of their respective owners.

> ###



Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:07:15 GMT  
 (ANNOUNCE) New Commercial Software Product Developed Using Smalltalk
At Sun, 30 Dec 2001 02:07:15 GMT, "objectman"

Quote:

>Well BFD. All in the development world has known this for quite sometime.
>The only problem is AISI (as I see it). Smalltalk has lack of marketing.
>And,
>marketing requires deniro. But... I still have my deniro on VW and Cincom.
>Hopefully the "powers that be" at Cincom will take notice of the Sun MIC.
>strategies and
>the way it has pushed Java all over the world. Tout solving business issues
>first. We know the technology is superior. The technology issues will take
>care
>of themsevles. But, in order to make this happen. Licensing issues will have
>to evolve as well.

As well as sufficient enough documents, and most powerful
tutorials, too.
Codes themselves won't thunder.  They are dead thing.

Re-use everything that is there for Smalltalk to re-use, in an
addition.

Best regards,


-------------------------------------------
Old new amateur, from Chinese OO Culture;)



Thu, 17 Jun 2004 11:23:21 GMT  
 (ANNOUNCE) New Commercial Software Product Developed Using Smalltalk

Quote:

>Well BFD. All in the development world has known this for quite sometime.
>The only problem is AISI (as I see it). Smalltalk has lack of marketing.
>And,
>marketing requires deniro. [snip]

So, Robert is into ST, then?
--
Andy


Thu, 17 Jun 2004 12:48:31 GMT  
 (ANNOUNCE) New Commercial Software Product Developed Using Smalltalk

Quote:


>>>"Java Bubble"

>>>Java is a mediocre computer language, it is remarkably weak by
>>>comparison and it takes a long time to get any work done, that is, IF
>>>you can get it installed properly. Millions of people foolishly flocked
>>>to the use of Java during the Internet bubble of the late 90s. However,
>>>there are recent signs that the Java bubble has burst as well.

>> Smalltalk is a great language, and deserves better than this kind of
>> silly 'Java envy'.  There is absolutely no sign of any decrease in
>> Java use - quite the reverse.  It increasingly looks like Java will become
>> the most widely used development language within a couple of years.

>I doubt it - Java use has peaked, and will now be challenged by C#.  The
>next fad has hit the industry, as I long assumed it would

You are virtually alone on this position.  It will be interesting to see
exactly *how* Java is going to be challenged by C#, as Java is thriving on
the server market, in which Microsoft is a minority player.  

Suppose it *is* challenged by C# - will Smalltalkers then rubbish C#
while Smalltalk remains mostly unknown?

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

>> Smalltalk sellers should learn from Java - constant rubbishing of Java
>> combined with self-delusion about the state of the software market
>> does no one any good.

>> Steve



Thu, 17 Jun 2004 19:07:08 GMT  
 (ANNOUNCE) New Commercial Software Product Developed Using Smalltalk

Quote:


>>>Smalltalk is a great language, and deserves better than this kind of
>>>silly 'Java envy'.  There is absolutely no sign of any decrease in
>>>Java use - quite the reverse.  It increasingly looks like Java will become
>>>the most widely used development language within a couple of years.

>>I doubt it - Java use has peaked, and will now be challenged by C#.  The
>>next fad has hit the industry, as I long assumed it would

> You are virtually alone on this position.  It will be interesting to see
> exactly *how* Java is going to be challenged by C#, as Java is thriving on
> the server market, in which Microsoft is a minority player.  

I am?  Have you read any trade rags lately?  Have you asked Java people
how easy it is to do Web Services stuff dynamically in Java?  The
leading edge of the C# push is apparent in the press, just as the
leading edge of the Java push was apparent by late 1995.

Quote:
> Suppose it *is* challenged by C# - will Smalltalkers then rubbish C#
> while Smalltalk remains mostly unknown?

Who cares?  Smalltalk will continue its slow, steady growth - perhaps
being helped by SmallScript, which is on .NET.  I also expect that some
of the Windows specific Smalltalks will start targeting .NET as their
base runtime environment

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

>>>Smalltalk sellers should learn from Java - constant rubbishing of Java
>>>combined with self-delusion about the state of the software market
>>>does no one any good.

>>>Steve



Thu, 17 Jun 2004 20:36:31 GMT  
 (ANNOUNCE) New Commercial Software Product Developed Using Smalltalk

Quote:


>>>>Smalltalk is a great language, and deserves better than this kind of
>>>>silly 'Java envy'.  There is absolutely no sign of any decrease in
>>>>Java use - quite the reverse.  It increasingly looks like Java will become
>>>>the most widely used development language within a couple of years.

>>>I doubt it - Java use has peaked, and will now be challenged by C#.  The
>>>next fad has hit the industry, as I long assumed it would

>> You are virtually alone on this position.  It will be interesting to see
>> exactly *how* Java is going to be challenged by C#, as Java is thriving on
>> the server market, in which Microsoft is a minority player.  

>I am?  Have you read any trade rags lately?  Have you asked Java people
>how easy it is to do Web Services stuff dynamically in Java?  The
>leading edge of the C# push is apparent in the press, just as the
>leading edge of the Java push was apparent by late 1995.

Yes - reading the trade mags is part of my job.   The consensus is
that C# is anything but leading edge - its simply a Java clone
designed to tie people into microsoft platforms.  The real growth
area in the IT industry is the adoption of Linux, an area in which
Java (and Smalltalk) can thrive, but in which C# will struggle
unless Microsoft provide portable libraries.

As for web services and Java - you can do some pretty amazing things,
especially with a good app server like JBoss (which is free).  Point
me at a currently running web service of any kind written using .Net and
C# that is anything more than at beta level, and runs on anything but
a MS platform.  Also there is nothing special about C#/Net web services-
communication between machines is in XML, which anything can use.

Quote:
>  Smalltalk will continue its slow, steady growth - perhaps
>being helped by SmallScript, which is on .NET.  I also expect that some
>of the Windows specific Smalltalks will start targeting .NET as their
>base runtime environment

I hope Smalltalk does continue its growth, but not at the expense of
platform dependence by following .Net.  After all, what is the point of
targetting a VM/bytecode system that is likely to be limited to
Windows?

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

>>>>Smalltalk sellers should learn from Java - constant rubbishing of Java
>>>>combined with self-delusion about the state of the software market
>>>>does no one any good.

>>>>Steve



Thu, 17 Jun 2004 23:11:32 GMT  
 (ANNOUNCE) New Commercial Software Product Developed Using Smalltalk

Quote:

> .... The class hierarchy should be the same, the methods should be the same,
> the
> bytecode should be the same. The runtime enviroment then could optimize the
> bytecode before running, but the development enviroment should be equivalent.

Exactly. But how do we get there ?

-Panu Viljamaa



Fri, 18 Jun 2004 00:02:26 GMT  
 (ANNOUNCE) New Commercial Software Product Developed Using Smalltalk
Nah, you're thinking about deNiro, he's thinking about dinero.  You're
both wrong - it requires a lot of something you normally get out of
the southern end of a northbound bull.

Larry
--


Quote:

>>Well BFD. All in the development world has known this for quite sometime.
>>The only problem is AISI (as I see it). Smalltalk has lack of marketing.
>>And,
>>marketing requires deniro. [snip]

>So, Robert is into ST, then?



Thu, 17 Jun 2004 23:47:43 GMT  
 (ANNOUNCE) New Commercial Software Product Developed Using Smalltalk

Quote:




>>>>>Smalltalk is a great language, and deserves better than this kind of
>>>>>silly 'Java envy'.  There is absolutely no sign of any decrease in
>>>>>Java use - quite the reverse.  It increasingly looks like Java will become
>>>>>the most widely used development language within a couple of years.

>>>>I doubt it - Java use has peaked, and will now be challenged by C#.  The
>>>>next fad has hit the industry, as I long assumed it would

>>>You are virtually alone on this position.  It will be interesting to see
>>>exactly *how* Java is going to be challenged by C#, as Java is thriving on
>>>the server market, in which Microsoft is a minority player.  

>>I am?  Have you read any trade rags lately?  Have you asked Java people
>>how easy it is to do Web Services stuff dynamically in Java?  The
>>leading edge of the C# push is apparent in the press, just as the
>>leading edge of the Java push was apparent by late 1995.

> Yes - reading the trade mags is part of my job.   The consensus is
> that C# is anything but leading edge - its simply a Java clone
> designed to tie people into microsoft platforms.  The real growth
> area in the IT industry is the adoption of Linux, an area in which
> Java (and Smalltalk) can thrive, but in which C# will struggle
> unless Microsoft provide portable libraries.

You must read different rags.  Gartner posist a world with 40% of
projects using .NET, 40% using J2EE, and the rest various other things.

based on virtually no presence of .NET now, that sounds like aggressive
growth to me.  And ComputerWorld and InfoWorld seem to agree.  They have
been full of article on Web Services and .NET lately

Quote:

> As for web services and Java - you can do some pretty amazing things,
> especially with a good app server like JBoss (which is free).  Point
> me at a currently running web service of any kind written using .Net and
> C# that is anything more than at beta level, and runs on anything but
> a MS platform.  Also there is nothing special about C#/Net web services-
> communication between machines is in XML, which anything can use.

I don't care particularly about C# - but the industry does.  By your
logic, no one should be using Java now either, since circa 1995, there
was little point.

Using a Java app server, how does one dynamically generate new classes
for just discovered web services?  Oops.

Quote:

>> Smalltalk will continue its slow, steady growth - perhaps
>>being helped by SmallScript, which is on .NET.  I also expect that some
>>of the Windows specific Smalltalks will start targeting .NET as their
>>base runtime environment

> I hope Smalltalk does continue its growth, but not at the expense of
> platform dependence by following .Net.  After all, what is the point of
> targetting a VM/bytecode system that is likely to be limited to
> Windows?

If you have a Windows specific Smalltalk, there's a lot of point.  Don't
assume that VW, VA, and Squeak define all of Smalltalk.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

>>>>>Smalltalk sellers should learn from Java - constant rubbishing of Java
>>>>>combined with self-delusion about the state of the software market
>>>>>does no one any good.

>>>>>Steve



Fri, 18 Jun 2004 02:31:33 GMT  
 (ANNOUNCE) New Commercial Software Product Developed Using Smalltalk

Quote:



>>Well BFD. All in the development world has known this for quite sometime.
>>The only problem is AISI (as I see it). Smalltalk has lack of marketing.
>>And,
>>marketing requires deniro.

> I suppose you meant dinero (money in Spanish). AFAIK Deniro is a famous
> actor.

> Marketing is the science that studies markets. Publicity is add real space,
> eye ball real space and is what need most of the dinero.

>>But... I still have my deniro on VW and Cincom.
>>Hopefully the "powers that be" at Cincom will take notice of the Sun MIC.
>>strategies and
>>the way it has pushed Java all over the world.

Yes, we have.  I've noticed that Sun isn't actually making money from
Java - they make it from hardware, and pretty much only from hardware.
Combine Java from Sun and Linux from the Open Source community, and
there's a big weapon that's been handed to IBM.  S/390's running Linux
and Eclipse for free -

where's Sun's revenue model in that?  Sun doesn't have much of a
services business.  They give Java away, other than fairly small license
fees.  They have no presence in the application server space, even fro J2EE.

I'me very hard pressed to see how Java helps Sun <at all>.  JavaSoft is
a rather large financial drain on them, and enables companies like IBM
(and BEA to a lesser extent) to claim they use standards in their app
servers - which dominate the space.

Where's the money for Sun?

Quote:
> Mostly giving out a product for free, creating false expectations about the
> language in a segment of the market that needed a real programming language
> (the web browser), creating lots of partners who would pay for having the
> 100% Pure Coffee logo, then pulling out and say that Java was for the server
> market in the first place.

> Java is free unless you want to do some serious development (which happens
> in most big companies). Then an enterprise edition of whatever development
> enviroment is around 3000 bucks per seat.

And the amazing part of that is, very little of that goes back to Sun.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

>>Tout solving business issues
>>first. We know the technology is superior. The technology issues will take
>>care
>>of themsevles. But, in order to make this happen. Licensing issues will

> have

>>to evolve as well.

> All basic versions of the development environments should be almost for
> free. You should be able to grab a VW app and compile it and run it in VA.
> Unless that happens overnight, I see one big Java language fighting against
> very small Smalltalks.

> There should be a Standard Smalltalk like there is a Standard Unix (Posix).
> Let us call it Potalk for the sake of simplicity. Potalk would have
> different versions, we can assume VA 2004 will be Potalk 2003 compatible and
> VW 2005 will be also Potalk 2003 compatible.  It would mean you could take a
> bytecode generated with a Potalk 2003 compatible development enviroment and
> run it in any Potalk 2003 compatible runtime enviroment.

> The class hierarchy should be the same, the methods should be the same, the
> bytecode should be the same. The runtime enviroment then could optimize the
> bytecode before running, but the development enviroment should be
> equivalent.

> In Unix you can create Posix compliant programs or you can use OS specific
> calls. I bet the same could be true with Smalltalk. Each class could declare
> itself as Potalk compliant and there could be a PotalkVerifier object that
> searches the class hierarchy verifying a product to be Potalk compliant.



Fri, 18 Jun 2004 02:36:25 GMT  
 
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