Developing Database Applications in Smalltalk 
Author Message
 Developing Database Applications in Smalltalk

A Smalltalk Cookbook. Thanks, Cees.

Now, a cookbook offers solutions to "programming in the small"
problems. If I need a method to convert numbers to words (the number
22 returns "twenty-two"), then I'd consult a cookbook. For guidance on
developing applications, I'd go to a developer guide. (Both VA and VW
have such manuals. They are all right as far as they go.) So here's a
challenge to Smalltalkers out there: a collaborative database
developer guide in Smalltalk. The sort of guide that will help me,
and, I assume, other database developers, is something along this
line.

DEVELOPING DATABASE APPLICATIONS IN SMALLTALK:
For Visual Basic, Delphi, PowerBuilder, and Oracle Developer
Programmers

A Step-by-Step Guide to Solving 101 of the Most Common Database
Application Problems
Using VisualWorks and Oracle 9i

Table of Contents

A Complete Smalltalk Application: Hello, World
A Single-Table Data Entry Form: Form Display
A Single-Table Data Entry Form: Grid Display
A Single-Table Data Entry Form: Combined Form and Grid Display
A Master-Detail Data Entry Form: Form-Form Display
A Master-Detail Data Entry Form: Form-Grid Display
etc.

The solutions should be the simplest that can possibly work. No more
lofty than a VB programmer normally would come up with (even to the
point of verbosity and utter lack of elegance). However, left at that,
the VB programmer might say, "Is that all there is? Where's the
advantage? Why switch?"

This is two books in one. On the left hand page is the utterly simple
and verbose solution. On the right hand page is the "real" Smalltalk
solution: stunningly elegant, concise, a programming pearl!

There, of course, is the very likely possibility that, in the end, it
may turn out that for the most common database application programming
activities, there are no stunningly elegant Smalltalk solutions. That
is, Smalltalk offers no advantage over VB, or PowerBuilder, or Oracle
Developer. After all, database programming is all about reading a
record from the persistent store, displaying the record on the screen,
accepting input, then either storing the record back or deleting it.
Not much room there to display higher education.

But that is good. We will at least know that targeting the database
developers is misdirected. Energy can be focused on what really is
Smalltalk uniquely good for, making it the best in that regard, and
targeting those that really need that kind of solution. It is
mentioned that Smalltalk is good for designing in the large and
prototyping. As a sometime application architect, I would be looking
for an integrated design tool, perhaps a lightweight UML (check out
Oracle JDeveloper), and where design objects flow into code (as Eiffel
claims).

Still, to complement The Smalltalk Cookbook, the developer guide as
described above, or something like it, would be of value to many, to
me at least.

BTW, any one knows if Joan Boone's book on interfacing Smalltalk to
relational databases will be published? It's been "Not Yet Published"
for a long time at amazon.com

gk



Wed, 30 Mar 2005 10:18:00 GMT  
 Developing Database Applications in Smalltalk

Quote:

> A Smalltalk Cookbook. Thanks, Cees.

> Now, a cookbook offers solutions to "programming in the small"
> problems. If I need a method to convert numbers to words (the number
> 22 returns "twenty-two"), then I'd consult a cookbook. For guidance on

i understand this overstatement.

Quote:
> developing applications, I'd go to a developer guide. (Both VA and VW
> have such manuals. They are all right as far as they go.) So here's a
> challenge to Smalltalkers out there: a collaborative database
> developer guide in Smalltalk. The sort of guide that will help me,
> and, I assume, other database developers, is something along this
> line.

sounds good.

Quote:

> DEVELOPING DATABASE APPLICATIONS IN SMALLTALK:
> For Visual Basic, Delphi, PowerBuilder, and Oracle Developer
> Programmers

and BCB (Borland C++ Builder, which in fact is "C++ violated by Delphi")

Quote:

> A Step-by-Step Guide to Solving 101 of the Most Common Database
> Application Problems
> Using VisualWorks and Oracle 9i

VisualWorks?

i thought collaborative / general?

Quote:

> Table of Contents

> A Complete Smalltalk Application: Hello, World
> A Single-Table Data Entry Form: Form Display
> A Single-Table Data Entry Form: Grid Display
> A Single-Table Data Entry Form: Combined Form and Grid Display
> A Master-Detail Data Entry Form: Form-Form Display
> A Master-Detail Data Entry Form: Form-Grid Display
> etc.

sounds good.

but sounds not object oriented.

Quote:

> The solutions should be the simplest that can possibly work. No more
> lofty than a VB programmer normally would come up with (even to the
> point of verbosity and utter lack of elegance). However, left at that,
> the VB programmer might say, "Is that all there is? Where's the
> advantage? Why switch?"

ok

Quote:

> This is two books in one. On the left hand page is the utterly simple
> and verbose solution. On the right hand page is the "real" Smalltalk
> solution: stunningly elegant, concise, a programming pearl!

ok

Quote:

> There, of course, is the very likely possibility that, in the end, it
> may turn out that for the most common database application programming
> activities, there are no stunningly elegant Smalltalk solutions. That
> is, Smalltalk offers no advantage over VB, or PowerBuilder, or Oracle
> Developer. After all, database programming is all about reading a
> record from the persistent store, displaying the record on the screen,
> accepting input, then either storing the record back or deleting it.
> Not much room there to display higher education.

i think the strength of Smalltalk is:

- 'live' developement environments.
- runtime modification of apps.
- object-model can be altered.

Quote:

> But that is good. We will at least know that targeting the database
> developers is misdirected.

this seems to be wrong.

of course there are  some database projects, where this is true.

e.g. an independent (no ODBC etc.) database-frontend which fits on a
single 1,44MB floppy.

Quote:
> Energy can be focused on what really is
> Smalltalk uniquely good for, making it the best in that regard, and
> targeting those that really need that kind of solution. It is
> mentioned that Smalltalk is good for designing in the large and
> prototyping.

i feel that its possible to build a smalltalk prototype quickly.

i feel that its possible to realize then, that its easy to evolve the
prototype to the real application without loss of quality.

Quote:
> As a sometime application architect, I would be looking
> for an integrated design tool, perhaps a lightweight UML (check out
> Oracle JDeveloper),

maybe:

quick first result.

quick desaster in second results.

quick desaster in maintenance.

Quote:
> and where design objects flow into code (as Eiffel
> claims).

sounds good.

any pointers?

Quote:

> Still, to complement The Smalltalk Cookbook, the developer guide as
> described above, or something like it, would be of value to many, to
> me at least.

me too.

Quote:

> BTW, any one knows if Joan Boone's book on interfacing Smalltalk to
> relational databases will be published? It's been "Not Yet Published"
> for a long time at amazon.com

me not.
Quote:

> gk



Wed, 30 Mar 2005 17:32:14 GMT  
 Developing Database Applications in Smalltalk
Quote:

> A Smalltalk Cookbook. Thanks, Cees.

> Now, a cookbook offers solutions to "programming in the small"
> problems. If I need a method to convert numbers to words (the number

[...]

Quote:
> prototyping. As a sometime application architect, I would be looking
> for an integrated design tool, perhaps a lightweight UML (check out
> Oracle JDeveloper), and where design objects flow into code (as Eiffel
> claims).

[...]

Integrated design tool with UML, Cicom ObjectStudio:
http://www.cincom.com/scripts/smalltalk.dll//prodinformation/index.ss...



Wed, 30 Mar 2005 22:06:47 GMT  
 Developing Database Applications in Smalltalk

Quote:


> > A Smalltalk Cookbook. Thanks, Cees.

> > Now, a cookbook offers solutions to "programming in the small"
> > problems. If I need a method to convert numbers to words (the number
> > 22 returns "twenty-two"), then I'd consult a cookbook. For guidance on

> i understand this overstatement.

> > developing applications, I'd go to a developer guide. (Both VA and VW
> > have such manuals. They are all right as far as they go.) So here's a
> > challenge to Smalltalkers out there: a collaborative database
> > developer guide in Smalltalk. The sort of guide that will help me,
> > and, I assume, other database developers, is something along this
> > line.

> sounds good.

> > DEVELOPING DATABASE APPLICATIONS IN SMALLTALK:
> > For Visual Basic, Delphi, PowerBuilder, and Oracle Developer
> > Programmers

> and BCB (Borland C++ Builder, which in fact is "C++ violated by Delphi")

> > A Step-by-Step Guide to Solving 101 of the Most Common Database
> > Application Problems
> > Using VisualWorks and Oracle 9i

> VisualWorks?

> i thought collaborative / general?

Collaborative in the sense of 'open source', but not necessarily
involving multiple Smalltalk implementations, although there is merit
to that. Unless they are using the same GUI library and, say, ODBC,
products differ so much in the interfaces that wading through a
solution in several implementations may distract rather than enlighten
at this point. The idea is VB (and Delphi, and ...) versus Smalltalk
(not a comparison among Smalltalk products).

Ok, but why VW? VW, ObjectWorks and VA have the best support for
commercial databases. There's one thing a database developers take for
granted in an IDE, and that is very strong support for the backend.
VA's future is questionable; also, you need more than 60-days to learn
a language and an IDE well enough to commit. I'd choose VW over OW.

gk

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> > Table of Contents

> > A Complete Smalltalk Application: Hello, World
> > A Single-Table Data Entry Form: Form Display
> > A Single-Table Data Entry Form: Grid Display
> > A Single-Table Data Entry Form: Combined Form and Grid Display
> > A Master-Detail Data Entry Form: Form-Form Display
> > A Master-Detail Data Entry Form: Form-Grid Display
> > etc.

> sounds good.

> but sounds not object oriented.

> > The solutions should be the simplest that can possibly work. No more
> > lofty than a VB programmer normally would come up with (even to the
> > point of verbosity and utter lack of elegance). However, left at that,
> > the VB programmer might say, "Is that all there is? Where's the
> > advantage? Why switch?"

> ok

> > This is two books in one. On the left hand page is the utterly simple
> > and verbose solution. On the right hand page is the "real" Smalltalk
> > solution: stunningly elegant, concise, a programming pearl!

> ok

> > There, of course, is the very likely possibility that, in the end, it
> > may turn out that for the most common database application programming
> > activities, there are no stunningly elegant Smalltalk solutions. That
> > is, Smalltalk offers no advantage over VB, or PowerBuilder, or Oracle
> > Developer. After all, database programming is all about reading a
> > record from the persistent store, displaying the record on the screen,
> > accepting input, then either storing the record back or deleting it.
> > Not much room there to display higher education.

> i think the strength of Smalltalk is:

> - 'live' developement environments.
> - runtime modification of apps.
> - object-model can be altered.

> > But that is good. We will at least know that targeting the database
> > developers is misdirected.

> this seems to be wrong.

> of course there are  some database projects, where this is true.

> e.g. an independent (no ODBC etc.) database-frontend which fits on a
> single 1,44MB floppy.

> > Energy can be focused on what really is
> > Smalltalk uniquely good for, making it the best in that regard, and
> > targeting those that really need that kind of solution. It is
> > mentioned that Smalltalk is good for designing in the large and
> > prototyping.

> i feel that its possible to build a smalltalk prototype quickly.

> i feel that its possible to realize then, that its easy to evolve the
> prototype to the real application without loss of quality.

> > As a sometime application architect, I would be looking
> > for an integrated design tool, perhaps a lightweight UML (check out
> > Oracle JDeveloper),

> maybe:

> quick first result.

> quick desaster in second results.

> quick desaster in maintenance.

> > and where design objects flow into code (as Eiffel
> > claims).

> sounds good.

> any pointers?

> > Still, to complement The Smalltalk Cookbook, the developer guide as
> > described above, or something like it, would be of value to many, to
> > me at least.

> me too.

> > BTW, any one knows if Joan Boone's book on interfacing Smalltalk to
> > relational databases will be published? It's been "Not Yet Published"
> > for a long time at amazon.com

> me not.

> > gk



Wed, 30 Mar 2005 22:53:08 GMT  
 Developing Database Applications in Smalltalk
Quote:




[...]

Quote:
>>>A Step-by-Step Guide to Solving 101 of the Most Common Database
>>>Application Problems
>>>Using VisualWorks and Oracle 9i

>>VisualWorks?

>>i thought collaborative / general?

> Collaborative in the sense of 'open source', but not necessarily
> involving multiple Smalltalk implementations, although there is merit
> to that. Unless they are using the same GUI library and, say, ODBC,
> products differ so much in the interfaces that wading through a
> solution in several implementations may distract rather than enlighten
> at this point. The idea is VB (and Delphi, and ...) versus Smalltalk
> (not a comparison among Smalltalk products).

ok

Quote:

> Ok, but why VW? VW, ObjectWorks and VA have the best support for

ObjectWorks.

I cannot find a current version.

Have you a link?

Quote:
> commercial databases. There's one thing a database developers take for
> granted in an IDE, and that is very strong support for the backend.
> VA's future is questionable; also, you need more than 60-days to learn
> a language and an IDE well enough to commit. I'd choose VW over OW.

> gk

(if you want, please delete the text you are not refering to. It reduces
traffic and is in general more friendly for the readers.)

[...]



Wed, 30 Mar 2005 23:56:21 GMT  
 Developing Database Applications in Smalltalk
I like this.  There a number of VA+WindowBuilder and GemStone tricks that
I've learned which I wish I'd known earlier.
---
Bob Nemec
Northwater Objects


Quote:
> A Smalltalk Cookbook. Thanks, Cees.
...
> DEVELOPING DATABASE APPLICATIONS IN SMALLTALK:
> For Visual Basic, Delphi, PowerBuilder, and Oracle Developer
> Programmers

> A Step-by-Step Guide to Solving 101 of the Most Common Database
> Application Problems
> Using VisualWorks and Oracle 9i

...


Sat, 02 Apr 2005 20:47:49 GMT  
 
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