Announcing: IBM Object Technology Certification - VisualAge(tm) for Smalltalk 
Author Message
 Announcing: IBM Object Technology Certification - VisualAge(tm) for Smalltalk

Announcement: IBM Object Technology Certification -
              VisualAge for Smalltalk (TM)

              October 24, 1995

IBM breaks new ground with the introduction of object technology
certification roles which are focussed on both knowledge-based and
performance-based assessments.  This certification is available through
the Professional Certification Program from IBM.

IBM object technology certification is designed for VisualAge for
Smalltalk service providers who are in the business of providing
object-oriented application development implementation services using
products such as VisualAge for Smalltalk.  This certification is also
designed to complement the IBM Object Technology University by delving
deeper into product specific areas.

The professional object technology certification roles available
immediately in the U.S. and Canada are:

      Certified VisualAge for Smalltalk Associate Developer
      Certified VisualAge for Smalltalk Developer

Additional VisualAge for Smalltalk roles as well as roles for other
products such as VisualAge for C++ are forthcoming in 1996.  These roles
will also be introduced into other geographies in 1996.

To become a Certified VisualAge for Smalltalk Associate Developer,
individuals are required to prepare for and pass Test # 080, VisualAge
for Smalltalk Proficiency Test.  Test # 080 is a closed-book,
multiple-choice, computerized, knowledge-based test.  It is administered
through Drake Prometric.  To complete the test successfully, individuals
are required to have knowledge in object-oriented application
development, VisualAge and IBM Smalltalk programming, rapid prototyping
methodology as it applies to VisualAge and visual modeling technique.
The cost to write Test # 080 is US $150.

To become a Certified VisualAge for Smalltalk Developer, individuals
are required to prepare for and successfully complete Test/Course N1947,
VisualAge for Smalltalk Prototyping Practicum, a five-day performance-
based assessment.  In a team of three candidates and one advisor,
participants prototype a solution to a case study that simulates an
actual application scenario using VisualAge and IBM Smalltalk.
Participants will need to draw upon their technical knowledge of
VisualAge, IBM Smalltalk, team programming, object-oriented analysis
and design, rapid prototyping methodology and visual modeling technique.
They will also need to draw upon leadership, communication and time
management skills, and deal with ambiguity and uncertainty as they
scope the problem and size the effort.  The first Test/Course N1947,
VisualAge for Smalltalk Prototyping Practicum, is scheduled for November
13 to 17, 1995.  Interested candidates may enroll through IBM Education
and Training.  The cost to take Test/Course N1947 is US $3,000.

Once certified as a Certified VisualAge for Smalltalk Associate Developer
or Certified VisualAge for Smalltalk Developer, individuals will receive
program credentials that acknowledge their level of professional
competency.  Certified individuals can use these credentials to
illustrate their ability to provide solid, capable service.  Upon
certification, individuals will receive a certificate, lapel pin,
certification logo (which can be used in adverti{*filter*}ts or business
literature) and will be included on the mailing list for the Professional
Certification Program from IBM.

Certified VisualAge for Smalltalk Associate Developers will also receive
access to technical literature in a technical library and be recognized
by IBM's BESTeam Program.

Certified VisualAge for Smalltalk Developers will also receive access
to engagement experiences in a technical library, a photo ID and, with
their permission, have their name listed in the Professional Certifica-
tion Program directory.  Some countries may offer additional benefits.

Commenting on this announcement, John Swainson, Vice President,
Application Development Solutions, says: "IBM recognizes object
technology as a basis for all aspects of information technology and that
its practitioners need specialized skills to derive all of its benefits.
Hence, IBM has committed itself to object technology as a key focus area.
This professional object technology certification represents a key
part of IBM's overall strategy for meeting object technology market
needs."

The skills gained as a result of achieving the various object technology
certification levels will help differentiate certified individuals from
the competition.  This competitive advantage will provide individuals
with increased business opportunity when customers require object-oriented
software expertise.

To obtain additional information on the VisualAge for Smalltalk
certification roles, preprequisites for each certification test, and
a sample test, call:

    Drake Prometric: 1-800-959-EXAM (1-800-959-3926)

    IBM Education and Training: 1-800-IBM-TEACH (1-800-426-8322)

    IBM Fax Service:
            USA: 1-800-IBM-4FAX (1-800-426-8322)
                 (under category "Education Information" ; request
                  Document numbers: 4873, 4874, 4871, 4868)

         Canada: 1-800-465-3299
                 (under category "Services/Education/Certification";
                 request Document numbers: 15021, 15022, 15025, 15026)



Sat, 18 Apr 1998 03:00:00 GMT  
 Announcing: IBM Object Technology Certification - VisualAge(tm) for Smalltalk

Quote:

> Announcement: IBM Object Technology Certification -
>               VisualAge for Smalltalk (TM)

>               October 24, 1995

> IBM breaks new ground with the introduction of object technology
> certification roles which are focussed on both knowledge-based and
> performance-based assessments.  This certification is available through
> the Professional Certification Program from IBM.

Pretty cool - eh? - read on...

Quote:
> IBM object technology certification is designed for VisualAge for
> Smalltalk service providers who are in the business of providing
> object-oriented application development implementation services using
> products such as VisualAge for Smalltalk.  This certification is also
> designed to complement the IBM Object Technology University by delving
> deeper into product specific areas.

Cool, although sounds like another IBM underlying alterior motive..

Quote:
> The professional object technology certification roles available
> immediately in the U.S. and Canada are:

>       Certified VisualAge for Smalltalk Associate Developer
>       Certified VisualAge for Smalltalk Developer

> Additional VisualAge for Smalltalk roles as well as roles for other
> products such as VisualAge for C++ are forthcoming in 1996.  These roles
> will also be introduced into other geographies in 1996.

> To become a Certified VisualAge for Smalltalk Associate Developer,
> individuals are required to prepare for and pass Test # 080, VisualAge
> for Smalltalk Proficiency Test.  Test # 080 is a closed-book,
> multiple-choice, computerized, knowledge-based test.  It is administered
> through Drake Prometric.  To complete the test successfully, individuals
> are required to have knowledge in object-oriented application
> development, VisualAge and IBM Smalltalk programming, rapid prototyping
> methodology as it applies to VisualAge and visual modeling technique.
> The cost to write Test # 080 is US $150.

OK, sounds valid.  I'll submit and feed the chairman of the board
a rib-eye and a salad.

Quote:

> To become a Certified VisualAge for Smalltalk Developer, individuals
> are required to prepare for and successfully complete Test/Course N1947,

Woah!  Executive decision time! ...

Quote:
> VisualAge for Smalltalk Prototyping Practicum, a five-day performance-
> based assessment.  In a team of three candidates and one advisor,

Why does IBM need FIVE of my days??  I have to earn a living, you know!!

Quote:
> participants prototype a solution to a case study that simulates an
> actual application scenario using VisualAge and IBM Smalltalk.

Ho-o-old IT, pal - rite there!

I'm not taking time off my job, paying some bogus-majorous
kilo-dollars to work for IBM for their clique.  I have seen you
from the inside-out, as many others, and know that your consulting
group bytes off more than they can devour, (And is usually late).

Why should any Smalltalker care to have blue gumms for that price?

A proven track record, a degree from an accredited univ. and I'll
give any new kid a chance.  Why would I tell an unemployed programmer
with 6 months ST experience to spend $3k before I feed his children?

Make it affordable, IP access-abled and beta a few non-bluegummers
and I'll think about it.

For now, Im not pay you and do your work for you and them let you
tell me some of my friends aren't up to your{*filter*}

Quote:
> Participants will need to draw upon their technical knowledge of
> VisualAge, IBM Smalltalk, team programming, object-oriented analysis
> and design, rapid prototyping methodology and visual modeling technique.
> They will also need to draw upon leadership, communication and time
> management skills, and deal with ambiguity and uncertainty as they
> scope the problem and size the effort.  
> Once certified as a Certified VisualAge for Smalltalk Associate Developer
> or Certified VisualAge for Smalltalk Developer, individuals will receive
> program credentials that acknowledge their level of professional
> competency.  Certified individuals can use these credentials to
> illustrate their ability to provide solid, capable service.  Upon
> certification, individuals will receive a certificate, lapel pin,

WOW - a real lapel pin- not just one from SEARS?

Quote:
> certification logo (which can be used in adverti{*filter*}ts or business
> literature) and will be included on the mailing list for the Professional
> Certification Program from IBM.

LOGO - SCHMOEGOE

Quote:

> Certified VisualAge for Smalltalk Associate Developers will also receive
> access to technical literature in a technical library and be recognized
> by IBM's BESTeam Program.

OH thats it !  
You're ALSO gonna lock up what your pidgeons have provided
you for $3000.00 of their money and own {*filter*}!

Next, they'll have to PAY for that service, too!!
('Course, after the initial 30 days is up).

Quote:
> Certified VisualAge for Smalltalk Developers will also receive access
> to engagement experiences in a technical library, a photo ID and, with
> their permission, have their name listed in the Professional Certifica-
> tion Program directory.  Some countries may offer additional benefits.

> Commenting on this announcement, John Swainson, Vice President,
> Application Development Solutions, says: "IBM recognizes object
> technology as a basis for all aspects of information technology and that
> its practitioners need specialized skills to derive all of its benefits.

(We came (late), we saw, we're big enough - lets just take it).

Quote:
> Hence, IBM has committed itself to object technology as a key focus area.
> This professional object technology certification represents a key
> part of IBM's overall strategy for meeting object technology market
> needs."

Keyword :  ^  (Our's).

It sure does - pay us, give it to us, we can go anywhere, now!!
(You go back and feed your kids a lapel pin).

Quote:
> The skills gained as a result of achieving the various object technology
> certification levels will help differentiate certified individuals from
> the competition.  This competitive advantage will provide individuals
> with increased business opportunity when customers require object-oriented
> software expertise.

.. And provides IBM with the edge IBM needs to take your business from
you and force you to join their ranks.

What happened to feeding the market to grow it?
Look at from the users' point of view:
  We LIKE some of your products,
  We LIKE some of your ideas,
  WE DONT LIKE monopolization!

First, do a better job marketing YOUR ST engine,
then help schools, private entrepernuers, and the
shareware market to bring out the OO vision!

THEN make it better by guiding those, who choose to
follow, a reasonable opportunity to better themselves
without this (expensive, lengthy, the way we think you
should conduct your business (GIVE us YOUR talent),)
assessment.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> To obtain additional information on the VisualAge for Smalltalk
> certification roles, preprequisites for each certification test, and
> a sample test, call:

>     Drake Prometric: 1-800-959-EXAM (1-800-959-3926)

>     IBM Education and Training: 1-800-IBM-TEACH (1-800-426-8322)

>     IBM Fax Service:
>             USA: 1-800-IBM-4FAX (1-800-426-8322)
>                  (under category "Education Information" ; request
>                   Document numbers: 4873, 4874, 4871, 4868)

>          Canada: 1-800-465-3299
>                  (under category "Services/Education/Certification";
>                  request Document numbers: 15021, 15022, 15025, 15026)

                  ^^^
HEY! Where's the email address?  ...

Quote:
> Commenting on this announcement, John Swainson, Vice President,
> Application Development Solutions, says: "IBM recognizes object
> technology as a basis for all aspects of information technology and that
> its practitioners need specialized skills to derive all of its benefits.

.You obviously yet to master a few skills my kids thrive on today!


Tue, 21 Apr 1998 03:00:00 GMT  
 Announcing: IBM Object Technology Certification - VisualAge(tm) for Smalltalk

Quote:

> Which for some reason reminds me of a good war story I've been
> sitting on a while.  When I was last contracting for IBM, their
> Smalltalk group asked for submissions for Smalltalk marketing ideas.
> Much to my surprise, when VisualAge was announced, many of their
> ideas about standards were a direct clone of what I submitted (e.g.
> "Whatever the prevailing standards are, that is what we are going to
> do.")

...

Quote:
>The only thing was, in true IBM style, they ignored the Smalltalk
>standards (not being big enough for them) and permutated them into
>EVERYBODY's standards like Motif, etc....oh well.

I think you're referring to our standards-based class libraries - GUI
interfaces based on Motif, file interfaces based on Posix, etc.  
We (IBM) didn't invent that - we inherit this stuff our OTI
implementation.

I guess you were hoping that we'd use the ParcPlace 'standard' for GUI,
file access, etc.  Or should we have used Digitalk?

The nice thing about being based on standards like Posix and X/Motif
is that there is a large amount of information on these puppies already
out there.  I use O'Reilly X/Motif books as part of my reference
collection ...

--
Patrick Mueller  | IBM Software Solutions, RTP NC; 919-254-4307, tie 444

                 | home page (for IBMers): http://pmuellr.raleigh.ibm.com



Sat, 25 Apr 1998 03:00:00 GMT  
 Announcing: IBM Object Technology Certification - VisualAge(tm) for Smalltalk

[snip]

Quote:
>>Why does IBM need FIVE of my days??  I have to earn a living, you know!!

>Yes you do have to earn a living, certification can help with that.

How?
This "certification program" which IBM has dreamed up has much more
to do with the empire-building dreams of various managers inside
the VA project than it has to do with providing work for anyone.

[snip]

Quote:

>>A proven track record, a degree from an accredited univ. and I'll
>>give any new kid a chance.  Why would I tell an unemployed programmer
>>with 6 months ST experience to spend $3k before I feed his children?

>That's your decision, however some executives when they spend bogus-majorous
>kilo-dollars on a project usually like to know what they are getting when they hire new people.

Weren't you paying attention?  How is IBM's certification going to
give an executive any greater guarentee of success than "...a proven
track record, a degree from an accredited univ..." ?

In fact, hiring decisions for Smalltalkers are rarely, if ever, made by
managers of the level of which you speak.  At most, IBM transparently
hopes to sucker managers into specifying "IBM Certified" as the
entry criteria for hiring, rather than any real measure of competence
or success or qualification.
And such managers are much better served by a "big picture" transition
strategy that addresses *all* the various factors of introducing (or
furthering) Smalltalk projects within their corporation.
Certification, far from a help, is yet another wave of fog, confusing
the issue and making clear and correct judgement much harder
to reach.

[snip]

Quote:

>Well that's sometimes happens in a certification program, some people just aren't up to snuff.
>I would be concerned if everyone passed.

I would be even more concerned if I knew [and I do so know] that the
standards were flexible and designed to meet some sort of "bell curve"
distribution, rather than any hard and fast, measurable, quantifiable,
or even documentable criteria.
Let's hear just what it is that people are going to be certified as
able to do.  Let's hear just what will count as the cutoff between
those who will be certified and those who won't.
From what I know about the program, its a marketing ploy with a
training hook, rather than anything else.

Quote:

>>> certification logo (which can be used in adverti{*filter*}ts or business
>>> literature) and will be included on the mailing list for the Professional
>>> Certification Program from IBM.

>>LOGO - SCHMOEGOE

>To you maybe, but to people who have to market themselves being certified
>can make a difference in getting the job or not.

Only if IBM can co-opt enough of the community into believing that
their certification means something.

[snip]

Quote:
>>> The skills gained as a result of achieving the various object technology
>>> certification levels will help differentiate certified individuals from
>>> the competition.  This competitive advantage will provide individuals
>>> with increased business opportunity when customers require object-oriented
>>> software expertise.

>>.. And provides IBM with the edge IBM needs to take your business from
>>you and force you to join their ranks.

>paranoia maybe?

No, this sounds rather too much like exactly what goes on in the sessions.
Why is it that IBM is marketing this program to those who might be in
competition with their OTP group?  Might they be harvesting?  Might
they be keeping their finger on the pulse of what the competition (or
potential competition) looks like?

Why aren't the members of OTP certified??

Quote:
>>  WE DONT LIKE monopolization!

>You don't happen to work for MicroS*ft do you?

Tsk, tsk.  Corporate jealousy.
Perhaps its that having seen what MS hath wrought, we prefer
not to let anyone do that to Smalltalk.

At the very least, certification ought to be handled by the
STIC, not by a product vendor.
Least of all, one who commits fraud regarding their product.
[IBM is *not* the only ANSI standard Smalltalk -- there is no such
beast.  IBM VA requires much more training or knowledge than
they present in their huge, but silly, ads.]

[snip]

Quote:
>This program is voluntary, you don't HAVE to go

What steps is IBM taking to insure that certification by IBM will
remain voluntary?  In the practical, as well as theoretical sense, of
course.

Look, bottom line is this:
Certification is an attractive band-aid being sold for any and every
development ailment under the sun.
It is poorly defined, inherently subjective, impossible to apply
throughout the industry, and ought not to be product specific
in the language arena at least.
IBM, given their current track record, is perhaps the poorest possible
choice for driving a certification program for Smalltalk or
for developers/development process.

Here's hoping this ludicrous little marketing ploy in disguise
as a grace to programmers will fall dead in the marketplace --
like TopView.

Bill F.
personal opinions only.



Sun, 26 Apr 1998 03:00:00 GMT  
 Announcing: IBM Object Technology Certification - VisualAge(tm) for Smalltalk


writes:

Quote:
> [ responses to somebody's previous posting decrying announcement ]

> Frank Vandenberg
> IBM Canada Ltd.
> < put standard disclaimer here >

Frank, such a qualification procedure would be fine if it were not
exclusive, cost money, and "owned" by IBM.  It is time you get your foot
out of the grave and get in the real world.  The potential market is so big
we need EVERYONE and then some.  How can you qualify programmers when there
are not and WILL NOT be enough to cover all the bases?

I know how your old guard leaders think about competition.  They talk to
their employees about all competition as the "ENEMY", in so many words.  
You think you are doing something with this qualification program.  Watch
how much you end up on the short end of the stick without enough
applicants.

The best hope of Smalltalk lies in inviting everybody to the party.  There
is too much to do already without some IDIOT trying to throw monkey
wrenches into the works.  Smalltalk has much more potential than it is
given credit for.  Too many people think of it as Database/Page turner
stuff with some growth around the edges.

We are right on the brink of the day when Smalltalk is fast enough for
almost EVERY kind of application.  If you don't believe me, take a look at
www.mpact.com and see what next years computers will look like, with data
paths larger than 700 bits, port to every kind of multi-media, and 2
billion instructions a second ALL ON A SINGLE that will cost $150.

When that stuff hits the market, NOBODY will ever again say Smalltalk is
too slow.  The market potential will explode and Smalltalk is the best
language around for high level management of the great gobs of resources
which are coming down the line like a freight train.  

THE MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION IS WHETHER WE WILL BE READY FOR IT WHEN IT GETS
HERE.  WE NEED TO GET OUT THERE AND DEVELOP EVERY FACET OF POSSIBLE
SMALLTALK USE.  THE SIZE OF SMALLTALK'S MARKET TOMORROW WILL BE
PROPORTIONAL TO HOW WELL WE DO THIS!

You turkeys can fight it out and try to do each other in and end up with
nothing, or you can buckle down and help the cooperation throughout the
Smalltalk community and have a brilliant future where everybody who works
hard in the Smalltalk world wins a BIG piece of pie.



Sun, 26 Apr 1998 03:00:00 GMT  
 Announcing: IBM Object Technology Certification - VisualAge(tm) for Smalltalk

Quote:

>>The only thing was, in true IBM style, they ignored the Smalltalk
>>standards (not being big enough for them) and permutated them into
>>EVERYBODY's standards like Motif, etc....oh well.

>I think you're referring to our standards-based class libraries - GUI
>interfaces based on Motif, file interfaces based on Posix, etc.  
>We (IBM) didn't invent that - we inherit this stuff our OTI
>implementation.

>I guess you were hoping that we'd use the ParcPlace 'standard' for GUI,
>file access, etc.  Or should we have used Digitalk?

>The nice thing about being based on standards like Posix and X/Motif
>is that there is a large amount of information on these puppies already
>out there.  I use O'Reilly X/Motif books as part of my reference
>collection ...

>--
>Patrick Mueller  | IBM Software Solutions, RTP NC; 919-254-4307, tie 444

I was at a conference this week where a speaker mentioned that we have
awards for the best software and should have an award for the worst
software.

The worst software widely used in the marketplace was X/Motif in his
opinion and he mentioned other experts who held the same view.

The practical implications of this is that portability of Smalltalk user
interface classes across UNIX variants is abysmal.

Jeff Sutherland

http://www.tiac.net/users/jsuth/
(via new Galahad 1.2 with a thread filter!)



Mon, 27 Apr 1998 03:00:00 GMT  
 Announcing: IBM Object Technology Certification - VisualAge(tm) for Smalltalk

Quote:


> [much good stuff snipped]

> >THE MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION IS WHETHER WE WILL BE READY FOR IT WHEN IT GETS
> >HERE.  WE NEED TO GET OUT THERE AND DEVELOP EVERY FACET OF POSSIBLE
> >SMALLTALK USE.  THE SIZE OF SMALLTALK'S MARKET TOMORROW WILL BE
> >PROPORTIONAL TO HOW WELL WE DO THIS!

> >You turkeys can fight it out and try to do each other in and end up with
> >nothing, or you can buckle down and help the cooperation throughout the
> >Smalltalk community and have a brilliant future where everybody who works
> >hard in the Smalltalk world wins a BIG piece of pie.

> HEAR! HEAR!!

> Well, said, John.

> Bill Felton
> VP of Educational Services
> JumpStart Systems
> Portland, OR


DualDitto**2 to both of you!


Tue, 28 Apr 1998 03:00:00 GMT  
 Announcing: IBM Object Technology Certification - VisualAge(tm) for Smalltalk
[...]
Quote:
> THE MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION IS WHETHER WE WILL BE READY FOR IT WHEN IT GETS
> HERE.  WE NEED TO GET OUT THERE AND DEVELOP EVERY FACET OF POSSIBLE
> SMALLTALK USE.  THE SIZE OF SMALLTALK'S MARKET TOMORROW WILL BE
> PROPORTIONAL TO HOW WELL WE DO THIS!

[...]

I agree with John. The needed driver for Smalltalk's success
today is market development.

History has taught us an important lesson via two previous
incidents:

1. VHS vs. Beta
2. IBM PC vs. Mac

In both cases, the deciding factor on which technology
became {*filter*} was market development not technical
superiority. IBM and the VHS vendors were smart enough to
substantially increase the market size for their products by
not keeping the technology proprietary but instead opening
up the market by lowering barriers to entry. Imagine what
would have happened if IBM had not allowed others to
develop IBM clones.

A market has to reach a critical size before it can begin to
withstand the ravages of competition. I think Smalltalk is at a
delicate stage right now. It needs to be nurtured for it to
blossom fully. For this reason I think that the merger
between PP and Digitalk is good for the Smalltalk market
because more resources will be spent on market
development than on competition.

Consider the relative sizes of Smalltalk and C++ markets. In
a recent poll of Computerworld readers only about 11,000
had ever programmed in Smalltalk versus about 140,000 for
C++.

It is clear that for Smalltalk to succeed in the long-term we
need to lower the barriers to entry by affordable academic
copies of products and affordable training and certification
programs. Smalltalk's real competition today is with other
languages not amoung different flavours of Smalltalk.

People who make resource allocation decisions are not
necessarily technically savvy. They may be inclined to use
Smalltalk but if they can't find the people or if the people are
too expensive they will be forced to allocate their rescues
elsewhere.

Lets not stifle the goose that ....

Salaam
Faisal Waris




Tue, 28 Apr 1998 03:00:00 GMT  
 Announcing: IBM Object Technology Certification - VisualAge(tm) for Smalltalk

Quote:

>Why is it that IBM is marketing this program to those who might be in
>competition with their OTP group?  Might they be harvesting?  Might
>they be keeping their finger on the pulse of what the competition (or
>potential competition) looks like?

If you really want to split hairs you could say that anyone and everyone is a potential competitor, but let's get real, the only way IBM (wrt VisualAge) will be successful is by doing its part to help make sure that there is a healthy Smalltalk market. That means supporting customers, business partners, resellers, other 3rd party vendors/trainers/consultants through work on standards committees (ANSI, OMG etc), Industry Councils ( STIC ), technology introduction based on standards (SOM, DSOM, OpenDoc) as well as programs that promote IBM's technology AND that leverage the capabilities that others can bring (Object Connection, VA Services Team, BEST Team). IBM is not working in a vacuum here, the reason for the certification program is because hundreds of consultants said that they needed and would support one. Many of these same people also were instrumental in the make-up of the certification process and will be very much involved in each and every certification session.  

Quote:
>At the very least, certification ought to be handled by the
>STIC ...

Good idea, I hope STIC takes certification into consideration as part of their mission. And how long before you think that will happen?

Quote:
>Least of all, one who commits fraud regarding their product.

The reason I frequent this newsgroup is because I have a passion for Smalltalk, if you have other issues with IBM and misrepresentation you're talking to the wrong guy.

Quote:

>Frank, such a qualification procedure would be fine if it were not
>exclusive, cost money, and "owned" by IBM.  It is time you get your foot
>out of the grave and get in the real world.

I have worked with real customers in such industries as banking, insurance and government building real applications using Smalltalk for the past three years. Please tell me how I can get into the real world.

Quote:
> The potential market is so big we need EVERYONE and then some.  

So very true.

Quote:
>How can you qualify programmers when there
>are not and WILL NOT be enough to cover all the bases?

So is your point then that because there is potentially more than enough for everyone that there is no need for certification? I am all for more people learning, knowing and using Smalltalk but how will you distinguish yourself. I saw the comments made about PROVEN track record and ACCREDITED university so no need to beat me over the head again, my point is that certification can be another distinguishing factor ( it all depends on the value that such a certification brings, for some there is value, for others there is none )

Quote:
>I know how your old guard leaders think about competition.  They talk to
>their employees about all competition as the "ENEMY", in so many words.  

 I would say that a healthy marketplace is punctuated by healthy competition ( as an earlier post said ">>>  WE DONT LIKE monopolization!).

Quote:
>The best hope of Smalltalk lies in inviting everybody to the party. There is
>too much to do already without some IDIOT trying to throw monkey wrenches
>into the works.

But your comments imply that you are tryin to throw IBM out of the party (BTW whose party is it?).  

Quote:
>Smalltalk has much more potential than it is
>given credit for.  Too many people think of it as Database/Page turner
>stuff with some growth around the edges.

I certainly don't think of Smalltalk this way and I don't think IBM does either.

Quote:

>THE MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION IS WHETHER WE WILL BE READY FOR IT WHEN IT GETS
>HERE.  WE NEED TO GET OUT THERE AND DEVELOP EVERY FACET OF POSSIBLE
>SMALLTALK USE.  THE SIZE OF SMALLTALK'S MARKET TOMORROW WILL BE
>PROPORTIONAL TO HOW WELL WE DO THIS!
>You turkeys can fight it out and try to do each other in and end up with
>nothing, or you can buckle down and help the cooperation throughout the
>Smalltalk community and have a brilliant future where everybody who works
>hard in the Smalltalk world wins a BIG piece of pie.

John and Bill,

- What do you suggest that IBM do that it isn't doing right now, and what can IBM do better/different. Critisism unless it is constructive doesn't help cooperation.


Quote:
>The needed driver for Smalltalk's success today is market development.

>A market has to reach a critical size before it can begin to
>withstand the ravages of competition. I think Smalltalk is at a
>delicate stage right now. It needs to be nurtured for it to
>blossom fully. For this reason I think that the merger
>between PP and Digitalk is good for the Smalltalk market
>because more resources will be spent on market
>development than on competition.

>It is clear that for Smalltalk to succeed in the long-term we
>need to lower the barriers to entry by affordable academic
>copies of products and affordable training and certification
>programs. Smalltalk's real competition today is with other
>languages not amoung different flavours of Smalltalk.

>People who make resource allocation decisions are not
>necessarily technically savvy. They may be inclined to use
>Smalltalk but if they can't find the people or if the people are
>too expensive they will be forced to allocate their rescues
>elsewhere.

All good comments !

Frank Vandenberg
IBM Canada Ltd.

(I put my company affliation here as a courtesy, I am not a spokesman
for IBM, nor do I pretend to be. My point of view may be more understandable
knowing this)



Wed, 29 Apr 1998 03:00:00 GMT  
 Announcing: IBM Object Technology Certification - VisualAge(tm) for Smalltalk

Quote:

>[snip]

>>>Why does IBM need FIVE of my days??  I have to earn a living, you know!!

>>Yes you do have to earn a living, certification can help with that.

>How?
>This "certification program" which IBM has dreamed up has much more to do
with  
>the empire-building dreams of various managers inside the VA project than
it  
>has to do with providing work for anyone.

>[snip]

>>>A proven track record, a degree from an accredited univ. and I'll
>>>give any new kid a chance.  Why would I tell an unemployed programmer
>>>with 6 months ST experience to spend $3k before I feed his children?

>>That's your decision, however some executives when they spend
bogus-majorous
>>kilo-dollars on a project usually like to know what they are getting when
they  
>hire new people.  

>Weren't you paying attention?  How is IBM's certification going to give an
>executive any greater guarentee of success than "...a proven track record,
a  
>degree from an accredited univ..." ?

>In fact, hiring decisions for Smalltalkers are rarely, if ever, made by  
>managers of the level of which you speak.  At most, IBM transparently
hopes to  
>sucker managers into specifying "IBM Certified" as the entry criteria for
>hiring, rather than any real measure of competence or success or  
>qualification.
>And such managers are much better served by a "big picture" transition
strategy  
>that addresses *all* the various factors of introducing (or
>furthering) Smalltalk projects within their corporation. Certification,
far  
>from a help, is yet another wave of fog, confusing the issue and making
clear  
>and correct judgement much harder to reach.

>[snip]

>>Well that's sometimes happens in a certification program, some people
just  
>aren't up to snuff.  
>>I would be concerned if everyone passed.

>I would be even more concerned if I knew [and I do so know] that the
standards  
>were flexible and designed to meet some sort of "bell curve" distribution,
>rather than any hard and fast, measurable, quantifiable, or even
documentable  
>criteria.
>Let's hear just what it is that people are going to be certified as able
to do.  
> Let's hear just what will count as the cutoff between those who will be  
>certified and those who won't. From what I know about the program, its a  
>marketing ploy with a training hook, rather than anything else.

>>>> certification logo (which can be used in adverti{*filter*}ts or business
>>>> literature) and will be included on the mailing list for the
Professional
>>>> Certification Program from IBM.

>>>LOGO - SCHMOEGOE

>>To you maybe, but to people who have to market themselves being certified
>>can make a difference in getting the job or not.

>Only if IBM can co-opt enough of the community into believing that their  
>certification means something.

>[snip]

>>>> The skills gained as a result of achieving the various object
technology
>>>> certification levels will help differentiate certified individuals
from
>>>> the competition.  This competitive advantage will provide individuals
>>>> with increased business opportunity when customers require
object-oriented
>>>> software expertise.

>>>.. And provides IBM with the edge IBM needs to take your business from
>>>you and force you to join their ranks.

>>paranoia maybe?

>No, this sounds rather too much like exactly what goes on in the sessions.
Why  
>is it that IBM is marketing this program to those who might be in
competition  
>with their OTP group?  Might they be harvesting?  Might they be keeping
their  
>finger on the pulse of what the competition (or potential competition)
looks  
>like?

>Why aren't the members of OTP certified??

>>>  WE DONT LIKE monopolization!

>>You don't happen to work for MicroS*ft do you?

>Tsk, tsk.  Corporate jealousy.
>Perhaps its that having seen what MS hath wrought, we prefer not to let
anyone  
>do that to Smalltalk.

>At the very least, certification ought to be handled by the STIC, not by a
>product vendor.
>Least of all, one who commits fraud regarding their product. [IBM is *not*
the  
>only ANSI standard Smalltalk -- there is no such beast.  IBM VA requires
much  
>more training or knowledge than they present in their huge, but silly,
ads.]

>[snip]

>>This program is voluntary, you don't HAVE to go

>What steps is IBM taking to insure that certification by IBM will remain  
>voluntary?  In the practical, as well as theoretical sense, of course.

>Look, bottom line is this:
>Certification is an attractive band-aid being sold for any and every  
>development ailment under the sun.
>It is poorly defined, inherently subjective, impossible to apply
throughout the  
>industry, and ought not to be product specific in the language arena at
least.
>IBM, given their current track record, is perhaps the poorest possible
choice  
>for driving a certification program for Smalltalk or for

developers/development  
Quote:
>process.

>Here's hoping this ludicrous little marketing ploy in disguise as a grace
to  
>programmers will fall dead in the marketplace --
>like TopView.

>Bill F.
>personal opinions only.

Next we will have to be unionized ! No thanks. Historically this
sort of thing leads to government regulation. At that point the  
industry is mired in a morass of red tape and corruption.

Need examples, look around at all the government agencies.  
FDA, FAA, CAA, BATF etc.
--
Joseph A Cusano



Wed, 29 Apr 1998 03:00:00 GMT  
 Announcing: IBM Object Technology Certification - VisualAge(tm) for Smalltalk



Quote:
> ...


> >Frank, such a qualification procedure would be fine if it were not
> >exclusive, cost money, and "owned" by IBM.  It is time you get your
foot
> >out of the grave and get in the real world.
> ...
> I have worked with real customers in such industries as banking,

insurance and government building real applications using Smalltalk for
the past three years. Please tell me how I can get into the real world.

Quote:
>  ...

Thus we expose a key point.  You imply your work is the real world.  The
real world extends extensively beyond that.  It is in this extent beyond
the immediate work that needs to be respected and considered in order to
get beyond rationalizations.

To have technical certification owned, promoted, and SOLD by IBM is a
rationalization.

Quote:
>  ... certification can be another distinguishing factor ..

But at what cost?  If it were free and not stamped on the forehead of
everyone who took it, it could be a useful tool.  But to associate any
cost with certification is like {*filter*} a carburetor.  Anything you do to
block a carburetor or load it down in any way will ultimately rob your
engine of power and sensitivity to control.  This certification reads as
bureaucracy, will only get in the way, and is not necessary.

Please! Change it from a certification process to a simple testing
process.  You can achieve the goals of qualifying people without overhead
of certification.

Quote:

> ...
> But your comments imply that you are trying to throw IBM out of the

party (BTW whose party is it?).  

Quote:

>...

The basis of my comments was the relationship of IBM to Digitalk and
VisualAge.  You took in Digitalk as a partner.  To me this means a m{*filter*}
and ethical commitment not to compete.  IBM brought out VisualAge which
does compete with Digitalk.  You could have merged with Digitalk and this
would not have been objectionable.  ParcPlace did.

Whose party?  That is a political statement.  Pardon me, but your slip is
showing.  The real question is: what technology is going to make
Smalltalk succeed?  There is no need to qualify the technology by who
owns it.  Rather ask:  What is the quality and how accessible is the
technology?

Many will say that there are more factors than this, and I agree.  One
does ultimately look at where the software comes from.  HOWEVER I think
quality and accessibility are the two most important.  I would rather
take a reasonable risk on software fitting these two requirements than to
go with a "dependable" company which grinds out mediocre junk.



Fri, 01 May 1998 03:00:00 GMT  
 
 [ 15 post ] 

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