NEXTSTEP : Don't let your company miss it. Don't let your career miss it 
Author Message
 NEXTSTEP : Don't let your company miss it. Don't let your career miss it

Hi Folks !

Are you ready to see the most beautifull peace of advertis{*filter*}t you've ever  
seen in any newspaper for any product ?

Check InfoWorld November 8, 1993, Volume 15, issue 45 !

NeXT publish a 8 full glass-paper pages of messages for American's CEO/CIO, and  
Information System managers that could change their life for the better.

I've never seen myself a so perfect advertisment. From the quality of paper to  
the clarity of the message. Everything is there ! The respect of all the  
respected standards (from Dos/Windows to MacOS, and NFS, Nowel, C, C++ and  
Objective-C, to Oracle and Sybase, from HP to Dell, from IBM 3270 to AS/400),  
the competitive advantage, the large corporate references, the shrinkapps  
coherence solution. Nothing is missed to illustrate, explain and demonstrate  
their coherente strategy. This advertis{*filter*}t is the message from a winner who  
understand the needs of business corporations, and give them the most  
attractive solution for their present and their futur.

This advertis{*filter*}t shows that NeXT Computer, Inc is the best winner StartUp in  
the computer/software industry on the market.

Buy InfoWorld to discover the most pleasant news at the COMDEX time and show it  
to your manager. Like Mike Adelson (Project Manager, MIS, Chrysler Financial)  
who has decided to implement NEXTSTEP in 100 financial centers across North  
America, like Ingvar Peturson (Chief Information Officer, MacCaw Cellular) who  
has decided to deploy NEXTSTEP on 4.000 users, like Dwight Koop (Executif  
Director Information Technology, Swiss Bank Corportation), who has allready  
installed 1.500 NEXTSTEP users in one of the world's leading optins trading  
companies, take the opportunity to become the adviser of your CEO/CIO or direct  
manager to let them take the competitive advantage of the NeXT generation, and  
give youself a chance to get, the quicker as possible, the same promotion that  
those engineers who at Swiss Bank, MacCaw Cellular, Chrysler Financial and lots  
others, got by choosing NEXTSTEP.

Do like PanCanadian Petroleum Limited, which was at 90% down the road to  
standardizing on Windows with PowerBuilder in creating their client/server  
development environment, discover NEXTSTEP and make the switch.

This news at the COMDEX is one of the most important turn in the computer  
science history. Don't let your company miss it. Don't let your career miss it.

Best regards,

        - Eric

---
_____________________________________________________________________
                                |
Eric de la Tribouille           | Advanced Collaborative Systems Lab.

                                | University of Illinois at
                                |               Urbana-Champaign
                                | 1304W. Springfield Avenue
NeXT-Mail very welcome !        | Urbana, ILL 61801, USA
?;?)/
                        TOMORROW's TOOLS TODAY !
_____________________________________________________________________
Opinions expressed are my own.

                "The trouble with our times is
                that the future is not what it  
                used to be."  - Paul Valery



Mon, 29 Apr 1996 02:43:49 GMT  
 NEXTSTEP : Don't let your company miss it. Don't let your career miss it

Quote:

>Are you ready to see the most beautifull peace of advertis{*filter*}t you've ever  

                                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Quote:
>seen in any newspaper for any product ?

I guess their spelling checker still needs a little work, though. :-)
--



Mon, 29 Apr 1996 05:42:03 GMT  
 NEXTSTEP : Don't let your company miss it. Don't let your career miss it

 >NeXT publish a 8 full glass-paper pages of messages for American's CEO/CIO, and  
 >Information System managers that could change their life for the better.
 >
 >I've never seen myself a so perfect advertisment. From the quality of paper to  
 >the clarity of the message. Everything is there ! The respect of all the  
 ...
 >coherence solution. Nothing is missed to illustrate, explain and demonstrate  
 >their coherente strategy. This advertis{*filter*}t is the message from a winner who  
 >understand the needs of business corporations, and give them the most  
 >attractive solution for their present and their futur.
 >
 ...
 [ more ridiculous puff and hype deleted ]
 ...
 >This advertis{*filter*}t shows that NeXT Computer, Inc is the best winner StartUp in  
 >the computer/software industry on the market.

That's whats always bothered me about companies like Microsoft: OK, so they might
sell a few zillion bits of software and and I grant you that nowadays even the
corporate coffee machine is PC compatible... but c'mon guys, how could any self
respecting software professional possibly use tools that aren't advertised on top
quality paper!

 >Opinions expressed are my own

Arf, arf, chortle, s{*filter*}... and I thought irony had died out.

Dr Paul Kennedy.



Mon, 29 Apr 1996 17:55:00 GMT  
 NEXTSTEP : Don't let your company miss it. Don't let your career miss it

Quote:



> >Are you ready to see the most beautifull peace of advertis{*filter*}t you've ever  
>                                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >seen in any newspaper for any product ?

> I guess their spelling checker still needs a little work, though. :-)
> --


and Heaven protect me from the NextSteppers who can't say "Hello World!"
with less than 1 Gbyte of RAM and a terabyte HD.  :-)

--jvn
--
Julian V. Noble



Tue, 30 Apr 1996 05:47:02 GMT  
 NEXTSTEP : Don't let your company miss it. Don't let your career miss it

Quote:



>> >Are you ready to see the most beautifull peace of advertis{*filter*}t you've ever  
>>                                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> >seen in any newspaper for any product ?

>> I guess their spelling checker still needs a little work, though. :-)

  I think the rest of their system needs a little work.

Quote:

>Hi Folks !

>Are you ready to see the most beautifull peace of advertis{*filter*}t you've ever  
>seen in any newspaper for any product ?

  He then tells us how great NeXTSTEP is...

  Well, let me tell you how NeXTSTEP for Intel 3.1 really is.

  Well, it installs easily, and uses a lot of disk space for things
like an on-line Webster dictionary, quotations and Shakespeare plays.
Seems to me it would make more sense to leave the dictionary etc.
on the CD. (BTW, It's easily done with a symbolic link but you
have to delete the dictionary etc. after loading...)
You need at least 300mb. A very good chunk of that is taken up
with the above mentioned dictionary, quotations and plays. I'd rather use
a real dictionary on my desk. Well, to each their own.

  The 3.1 release I was evaluating would not hold a serial connection
long enough to do any uucp transfers. It would hard lockup the
PC forcing a hard reboot which would {*filter*}disk files left right and centre.
3.1 for Intel is useless without the serial port driver update. It should
never have left the factory with a bug that serious. (3.2 for Intel
is available now, and is delivered with the serial driver update)
The uucp system is worse than that available on linux or NetBSD/FreeBSD.
They would be better off putting Taylor uucp on their system.
They are using a lot of the GNU stuff already...

  It would mount a ISO9660 CD, but NFS clients could not use it when
it was exported via NFS. Makes it kind of useless for a small office for
resource sharing doesn't it? We queried NeXTSTEP about it, and was
told that although other unix systems did it (After all there _is_
the VFS layer in most modern unix, except for NeXTSTEP) that the
other systems were using a "work around." pfftthh
Yeah right. A "work around."
BTW, They are working on adding it.... They have no VFS layer. wow.

  It is display postscript. No X11 support at all. X11 support
costs you extra. So you can't use code right off the net. You
also can't use any of the X11 servers such as an NCD X term
to add another low cost seat... I know, X11 *sucks* eggs
and we all want dedicated workstations, but it is a consideration.

  To be fair, everything above can be worked around or is
being addressed in a later release. Though paying extra for
X11 support which comes bundled in with other versions of
unix for the same price seems a bit stupid.

  The kicker was when NeXTSTEP wrote back to our complaints and
told us not to compare it to a server. That they envisioned
NeXTSTEP as a development machine for client-server (as the client)
applications perhaps with a NT machine as the server. So, you are
telling me you are using a BSD system (on top of the mach kernel)
that pioneered networking and you can't do networking?
right. Whats the point then of buying a NeXTSTEP so you can
have an easily maintained homogeneous network when you can't
use it as server as well? You might as well go all NT (yech)
or SCO or something else that can do it right. The attitude
from the company *sucked*.

  The desktop is wonderful. The development system is wonderful.
Objective c is wonderful. It _is_ a great system for producing quality
production code.  No argument. But the rest of the system *sucks*
Perhaps for certain niche applications it is the way to go.
But I don't think it will be for very long. I am certain that there
must be other companies doing it _right_, but on X11 or Windoze.
If NeXTSTEP ported their environment to X11 (Probably heresy to them,
and possibly it is too late) and sold the development environment
for use on other platforms that can do unix right....
(I read something about an HP deal. perhaps this is what
they are doing...) But with COSE staring us in the face,
where does that leave NeXTSTEP?

...

Quote:

>This news at the COMDEX is one of the most important turn in the computer  
>science history. Don't let your company miss it. Don't let your career miss it.

  I'd say give it a pass.... Don't let it ruin your career.... That's
_my_ personal opinion.

--

29 Vanson Ave. Nepean On, K2E 6A9       Am I the only one who has trouble
613-225-9920                            thinking up witty sayings for here?



Tue, 30 Apr 1996 22:28:52 GMT  
 NEXTSTEP : Don't let your company miss it. Don't let your career miss it

Quote:

>>Are you ready to see the most beautifull peace of advertis{*filter*}t you've ever
>                                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>seen in any newspaper for any product ?

>   I guess their spelling checker still needs a little work, though. :-)

        Not if the language is free-form franglais, in which the
original article was written.

--



Wed, 01 May 1996 09:45:52 GMT  
 NEXTSTEP : Don't let your company miss it. Don't let your career miss it

:   The desktop is wonderful. The development system is wonderful.
: Objective c is wonderful. It _is_ a great system for producing quality
: production code.  No argument. But the rest of the system *sucks*

Although "flaming" is not considered appreciable in these newsgroups,
at least your addition "No argument" provokes my remark:
There can never be any quality software produced in C or any of its
derivates. C *sucks*.




Sat, 11 May 1996 18:54:28 GMT  
 NEXTSTEP : Don't let your company miss it. Don't let your career miss it

Quote:

> There can never be any quality software produced in C or any of its
> derivates.

        This is silly.

Quote:
> C *sucks*.

        This is true.

Whitney



Sun, 12 May 1996 00:34:24 GMT  
 NEXTSTEP : Don't let your company miss it. Don't let your career miss it

Quote:

>:   The desktop is wonderful. The development system is wonderful.
>: Objective c is wonderful. It _is_ a great system for producing quality
>: production code.  No argument. But the rest of the system *sucks*

Your prayers have been answered. NeXT and Sun are putting NeXT Step on Solaris.
NeXT is also making NeXT Step available for other OSs (nothing more specific).
See todays Wall Street Journal.

This is the best thing for NS and NeXT should have been working toward this
a long time ago. (Hindsight and all that...)

--



Sun, 12 May 1996 00:59:47 GMT  
 NEXTSTEP : Don't let your company miss it. Don't let your career miss it
In this morning's (Nov 23, 93) San Francisco Chronicle business section is
an announcement that Sun is buying 1.5 percent of Next for $10 million.
The suggestion is that Sun will be getting the interface builder technology.
The article also reviewed Next and Hewlett Packard have an agreement; and
that Intel has invested in Next so that the Next software would be ported
to the Intel architecture.

IMHO, Next is dying and these are desperation moves.

Randall Neff



Sun, 12 May 1996 01:34:08 GMT  
 NEXTSTEP : Don't let your company miss it. Don't let your career miss it

writes:

Quote:

>>:   The desktop is wonderful. The development system is wonderful.
>>: Objective c is wonderful. It _is_ a great system for producing quality
>>: production code.  No argument. But the rest of the system *sucks*

>>Although "flaming" is not considered appreciable in these newsgroups,
>>at least your addition "No argument" provokes my remark:
>>There can never be any quality software produced in C or any of its
>>derivates. C *sucks*.

Hmmm...

Isn't the VM in ParcPlace's ObjectWorks and VisualWorks written in C.

BTW - I use NeXTSTEP (Objective-C) and Smalltalk and love 'em both.  Both have  
their strenghts as programming environments.

(Opinion Alert!  Argue with me but let's not get {*filter*})

NEXTSTEP/IB/Objective-C/GCC       ObjectWorks/VisualWorks/Smalltalk
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Streamlined class heirarchy       Lots of classes w/overlap between
Lots of coherence in the          VisualWorks/ObjectWorks - time to
architecture (w/some              refactor this stuff and offer one
exceptions of course)             complete, clean, clear, product

Must go to 3rd party              Lots of great data modeling classes.
to get Sets Bags Collections
etc.

Less dynamic - not                Dynamically compiled and cached -
dynamically compiled and          great for incremental development.
cached. Debugging less            De{*filter*} is really good.
dynamic

Speed - Fewer layers of           The VM can be very resource intensive.
abstraction                       (Even on HP's w/288mb memory).

Complete integration with         Must go to 3rd party for distributed
the OS  (Mach).  Network          object systems.  Must bow to the lowest
(Distributed Object) messaging    common denominator w.r.t. OS or you
handled at the OS level.          sacrifice portability.

Only runs on NeXT's mach          Very platform independent!  Bows to
(this is changing - see           window system you're on.
announcement with SUN)

Robust imaging model              SPIM - need I say more.  Event driven
(Display PostScript). Truely      comming real soon now.  The process
event driven.                     model is primitive (not that I could
                                  write a better one - but customers
                                  are asking for more).

Easier app distribution. (you     Still not very realistic to write
don't have to give away your      shrink-wrapped software in PP
source with every app).           Smalltalk (although possible)

No garbage collection             GC

Better native support for         Add RTF text object and away you go.
industry standards like RTF,
PostScript, TIFF, EPS, Novell

and on and on and on....
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Again these are only MY opinions.  These are the ONLY two environments I care  
to program in these days.  And if you are a Smalltalk programmer who is forced  
to program in a C derivitive - why not program in a C/Smalltalk hybrid ? NeXT  
and ParcPlace are competing in the same marketplace.  MCCA as someone (Jobs?)  
coined it - Mission Critical Custom Applications.  Both are enjoying warm  
receptions on Wall Street and in those corporations which are early adopters of  
advanced technology.  There is also much greater demand for both NeXTSTEPers  
and Smalltalkers than currently available.  Learn either one well and you'll  
have a job for the next few years (an probably make a lots of $$$ too).

--
Ronald Pomeroy
Advanced Micro Devices
CAM Applications Group



Sun, 12 May 1996 03:45:34 GMT  
 NEXTSTEP : Don't let your company miss it. Don't let your career miss it

Quote:


>:   The desktop is wonderful. The development system is wonderful.
>: Objective c is wonderful. It _is_ a great system for producing quality
>: production code.  No argument. But the rest of the system *sucks*
>Although "flaming" is not considered appreciable in these newsgroups,
>at least your addition "No argument" provokes my remark:
>There can never be any quality software produced in C or any of its
>derivates.

This is ridiculous.  Quality software is a function of quality
engineering, not of the computer language used in the implementation.
Reliance on the language to magically "do the right thing" typically
leads to shoddy engineering.

Quote:
>C *sucks*.

Yeah, probably, it's just the alternatives that get me _really_ worried.

FLAMMENWERFER FREI!
Na, wenn das der Stand der Dinge bei den FU-Informatikern ist, dann
gute Nacht!
UND SICHERN...

Marcel



Sun, 12 May 1996 06:19:21 GMT  
 NEXTSTEP : Don't let your company miss it. Don't let your career miss it

Quote:


>:   The desktop is wonderful. The development system is wonderful.
>: Objective c is wonderful. It _is_ a great system for producing quality
>: production code.  No argument. But the rest of the system *sucks*
>Although "flaming" is not considered appreciable in these newsgroups,
>at least your addition "No argument" provokes my remark:
>There can never be any quality software produced in C or any of its
>derivates. C *sucks*.

Flaming is indeed not considered appreciable, especially this kind of
flaming. If you think that C is not fit to be used to produce quality
software then you should explain:
1) Why do you think C is not usable
2) What other language you think IS suited to produce quality
software.
3) Why do you think that the reasons under 1) also apply to Objective-C,
which IMHO has enough extra qualities above those of C that a blind
reduction to C, as you make, is not justifiable.

I am interested in your answers, especially those to 2)

Rene'

--

------------------------------------------------------------------------
If life seems jolly rotten, there's something you've forgotten!
And that's to laugh and smile and dance and sing...



Sun, 12 May 1996 17:01:36 GMT  
 
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