Porting from PPS Smalltalk to IBM Smalltalk. 
Author Message
 Porting from PPS Smalltalk to IBM Smalltalk.

Has anybody tried to do a port of an application of some size and complexity
from PPS Smalltalk to IBM Smalltalk? We have an application registrating
about 300.000 lines to convert, including some fiddeling about in the Compiler
class (and about every other class as well). I understand that Doug sells a
tool ( Xoteryx, nice name!) that will help you convert, but not to the
IBM variety? Is ENVY a tool that might help? Please send your war stories,
so we can escape the pitfalls you already have tried.

Oystein Gulbrandsen
Taskon A/S



Sun, 25 Jan 1998 03:00:00 GMT  
 Porting from PPS Smalltalk to IBM Smalltalk.

[snip]

Quote:
>IBM Smalltalk does NOT expose the compiler - changes you have made there
>will not port to IBM Smalltalk.

IBM Smalltalk also does not expose the code for any of the widget classes.
You are entirely on your own, left only with incomplete signatures, for
exploration of the widgets which form the basis of the windowing system.

Furthermore, IBM Smalltalk provides *no* support for printing.
This is hardly acceptable, nor useful for any sort of project intended
for deployment.

I'm curious as to what IBM might have to say about these "features"...

Bill F.
My account, my opinions.



Sun, 25 Jan 1998 03:00:00 GMT  
 Porting from PPS Smalltalk to IBM Smalltalk.

Quote:

>Has anybody tried to do a port of an application of some size and complexity
>from PPS Smalltalk to IBM Smalltalk? We have an application registrating
>about 300.000 lines to convert, including some fiddeling about in the Compiler
>class (and about every other class as well). I understand that Doug sells a
>tool ( Xoteryx, nice name!) that will help you convert, but not to the
>IBM variety? Is ENVY a tool that might help? Please send your war stories,
>so we can escape the pitfalls you already have tried.

I cannot answer your question directly, but might be able to provide some
related information.

IBM Team Smalltalk has Envy builtin - if you are already using Envy I
suspect that you will find it less difficult to move. (However, I have
no personal experience with such.)

IBM Smalltalk does NOT expose the compiler - changes you have made there
will not port to IBM Smalltalk.

You will have similar difficulties with other places you fiddled around
with,
the more implementation dependent, the more trouble, of course.

IBM Smalltalk has a different library for building user interfaces. It is
based
on X-Windows and Motif; a Motif programmer will feel right at home. It
may well be useful to 'acquire' a Motif 'body' for the conversion effort.

I wish I could help more.

__________________________________
David N. Smith


IBM T J Watson Research Center
Hawthorne, NY
__________________________________
Any opinions or recommendations
herein are those of the author  
and not of his employer.

(BTW, there is a good book on IBM Smalltalk...)



Sun, 25 Jan 1998 03:00:00 GMT  
 Porting from PPS Smalltalk to IBM Smalltalk.

Quote:

>IBM Smalltalk also does not expose the code for any of the widget classes.
>You are entirely on your own, left only with incomplete signatures, for
>exploration of the widgets which form the basis of the windowing system.

   I don't pretend to speak for IBM, ever.  I only happen to work
as a VisualAge developer so I have to walk even finer line :-{

   The VisualAge team knows about customer (and your) comments
regarding the the hidden source code.  There are some issues that
must be resolved and they have been actively pursued.

Quote:
>Furthermore, IBM Smalltalk provides *no* support for printing.
>This is hardly acceptable, nor useful for any sort of project intended
>for deployment.

>I'm curious as to what IBM might have to say about these "features"...

   I thought there must me something that VisualAge can be
improved on :-)  Let's see if I can pull some muscles on this -
ouch...  Not my back muscles!

   Thanks for your comments.  I cannot comment too specifically on
future (vapor... comes to mind) products - sorry, my employer's
guideline, probably because of Court's restriction from a few
decades back.  I can only say that there are new features being
added to VisualAge.  You may even be pleasantly supprised
of features you didn't request ;-}

   Anyway, if you really have a critical business need for certain
function, talk to your IBM marketing rep, or to contact the
technical/customer support folks on their IBM TalkLink or
CompuServe fora.  Chew their ears out - I'm glad I'm not in tech
support :-)

Jimmy Nguyen
"Why should I speak for IBM?  IBM doesn't like that idea to start with.
I don't blame 'em, corporate lawyers -
   especially there's one born out there every minute."



Mon, 26 Jan 1998 03:00:00 GMT  
 Porting from PPS Smalltalk to IBM Smalltalk.

Quote:

>Has anybody tried to do a port of an application of some size and complexity
>from PPS Smalltalk to IBM Smalltalk?

I wonder if this has been done? I'll bet there are some large potholes waiting
to be fallen into, but it sounds like a really interesting challenge!

Bob



Tue, 27 Jan 1998 03:00:00 GMT  
 Porting from PPS Smalltalk to IBM Smalltalk.

Quote:
>>Furthermore, IBM Smalltalk provides *no* support for printing.
>>This is hardly acceptable, nor useful for any sort of project intended
>>for deployment.

The same people who make ReportWriter for VW, Synergistic Software Inc? also
make a report writer tool for VA. Synergistics is at 908-422-0450. Of course who knows
what will be in VA V3.0?

John
1-800-477-2659



Thu, 29 Jan 1998 03:00:00 GMT  
 Porting from PPS Smalltalk to IBM Smalltalk.

Quote:

>Furthermore, IBM Smalltalk provides *no* support for printing.
>This is hardly acceptable, nor useful for any sort of project intended
>for deployment.

Well, does VisualAge?

Hard to imagine no support at all.  Is it true even for IBM-ST?

Thanks,

Clive Steward
Narration



Sat, 31 Jan 1998 03:00:00 GMT  
 Porting from PPS Smalltalk to IBM Smalltalk.

Quote:


>>Furthermore, IBM Smalltalk provides *no* support for printing.
>>This is hardly acceptable, nor useful for any sort of project intended
>>for deployment.

>Well, does VisualAge?

>Hard to imagine no support at all.  Is it true even for IBM-ST?

Hard to imagine -- but true.
As another poster pointed out, printing capability is available
from a third party vendor.
But as you point out this IS hard to believe!
And, as I pointed out, totally unacceptable for what alleges
to be a professional (-level and -quality) software development
environment.
I know a lot of end users who could give a rip about multi-media,
but I don't know ANY end users who don't want to print...

And yes, this is true of VisualAge, which is really just an extended
toolset built on top of IBM Smalltalk.

Bill F.
my account, my opinions



Sat, 31 Jan 1998 03:00:00 GMT  
 
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