VW: Toolbars 
Author Message
 VW: Toolbars

Hello.

First, thanks to Mark for the #binary suggestion. My news service is
worse day by day so it's hard to keep a conversation...

I know that the VW gui framework is about to be gone, but while it's
still here I need it in order to implement a mail client.
My one and only problem is the lack of a flexible toolbar widget. All
that I know of is the top either menu-only or icon only bar. But I need,
in varying degree of importance:

. something much like the opera or mozilla tab bar.

. a toolbar that can hold any widget, a la ms/word; in concrete, one of
those icons with an arrow at its side, where the icon does some action
and the arrow pulls down a menu, with an expanded set of actions.

That both can co-exist on the same row.

What's your advice? Should I hack ComposingComposite (sc of Menubar and
Toolbar) or one of its subclasses to get what I want? Or should I guve
it up altogether?

(PS: I've just been toying with Aragon. Though I think it doesn't solve
the above - and plus it's 5.4 based - I liked its toolbarbutton widget
and was wondering wether it can be installed separately into vw7 - just
the widget - and how.)

Thanks,
--
Antnio Pedro Marques  .   http://www.*-*-*.com/



Wed, 28 Sep 2005 04:04:45 GMT  
 VW: Toolbars
Antnio,

Quote:
>I know that the VW gui framework is about to be gone, but while it's
>still here I need it in order to implement a mail client.

For clarity's sake:

The current GUI Framework will be part of the base product for at LEAST 2 more
years. Pollock, it's replacement won't even show up in the base product for at
least 1 more year.

                                And So It Goes
                                     Sames
______________________________________________________________________

Samuel S. Shuster [|]
VisualWorks Engineering, GUI Project
Go Smalltalk!



Thu, 29 Sep 2005 04:40:32 GMT  
 VW: Toolbars
Antnio,

Quote:
>What's your advice? Should I hack ComposingComposite (sc of Menubar and
>Toolbar) or one of its subclasses to get what I want? Or should I guve
>it up altogether?

Well, ToolbarView is an "Almost" full fledged widget. You could start there with
adding the requisite ability to support InputField, DropDown and Label. From
there, you would have to create a new kind of Composite button that does the
label and icon thing. Finally, to do the Mozilla thing, you would need yet
another composite that allowed two buttons (the big square one and the small
slim down arrow one).

Quote:
>(PS: I've just been toying with Aragon. Though I think it doesn't solve
>the above - and plus it's 5.4 based - I liked its toolbarbutton widget
>and was wondering wether it can be installed separately into vw7 - just
>the widget - and how.)

I think you can. Just load that parcel, remove all that you DON'T need, and then
reparcel out just the one.

                                And So It Goes
                                     Sames
______________________________________________________________________

Samuel S. Shuster [|]
VisualWorks Engineering, GUI Project
Go Smalltalk!



Thu, 29 Sep 2005 04:49:41 GMT  
 VW: Toolbars



Quote:
> Antnio,

> >I know that the VW gui framework is about to be gone, but while it's
> >still here I need it in order to implement a mail client.

> For clarity's sake:

> The current GUI Framework will be part of the base product for at LEAST 2
more
> years. Pollock, it's replacement won't even show up in the base product
for at
> least 1 more year.

Why to wait that long? There are so many people out there who are unhappy
with the current archaic GUI...

Vlastik



Thu, 29 Sep 2005 22:44:59 GMT  
 VW: Toolbars
Vlastimil,

Quote:
>> The current GUI Framework will be part of the base product for at LEAST 2 more
>> years. Pollock, it's replacement won't even show up in the base product for at
>> least 1 more year.

>Why to wait that long? There are so many people out there who are unhappy
>with the current archaic GUI...

Well, there are two reasons, one for each of the prior statements.

Why will it take at least a year before it hits production (in the base)? So far
there's only me working on it, and there is a LOT to do. I just expect at the
current pace (plus some part time help starting this summer), that it will take
a year. That's not new, it's just the plan as it has been for a while now.

Why will the old framework stay in the base for at least 2 years before it is
"gone"? Well, the answer to that is that it can not replace the current GUI
framework until all the tools are re-written for Pollock. That, given the
resources at hand, will probably take at least a year. That of course can't
really start until Pollock is ready for production, which is about a year away,
so....

Bottom Line: As soon as it's ready, it'll be available.

                                And So It Goes
                                     Sames
______________________________________________________________________

Samuel S. Shuster [|]
VisualWorks Engineering, GUI Project
Go Smalltalk!



Fri, 30 Sep 2005 05:08:49 GMT  
 VW: Toolbars

Quote:
>Well, there are two reasons, one for each of the prior statements.

>Why will it take at least a year before it hits production (in the base)? So far
>there's only me working on it, and there is a LOT to do. I just expect at the
>current pace (plus some part time help starting this summer), that it will take
>a year. That's not new, it's just the plan as it has been for a while now.

>Why will the old framework stay in the base for at least 2 years before it is
>"gone"? Well, the answer to that is that it can not replace the current GUI
>framework until all the tools are re-written for Pollock. That, given the
>resources at hand, will probably take at least a year. That of course can't
>really start until Pollock is ready for production, which is about a year away,
>so....

>Bottom Line: As soon as it's ready, it'll be available.

>                                And So It Goes
>                                     Sames

Why ditch it in 2 years?  There could be a lot of apps based on the old GUI
that won't want to convert immediately..  2 years for some apps that are
working well and put on a maintainance level isn't an overly long time.
There are still a number of companies out there that are using VW 3.0. Then
you have to make sure goodies like GF/ST, HotDraw, Jun, etc.. -- all get
ported to the new framework too?  After it is shipping, I'd keep it for 3
years.

Ian

---
http://www.upright.net/ian/



Sat, 01 Oct 2005 09:06:37 GMT  
 VW: Toolbars
see below



Quote:

>>Well, there are two reasons, one for each of the prior statements.

>>Why will it take at least a year before it hits production (in the base)? So far
>>there's only me working on it, and there is a LOT to do. I just expect at the
>>current pace (plus some part time help starting this summer), that it will take
>>a year. That's not new, it's just the plan as it has been for a while now.

>>Why will the old framework stay in the base for at least 2 years before it is
>>"gone"? Well, the answer to that is that it can not replace the current GUI
>>framework until all the tools are re-written for Pollock. That, given the
>>resources at hand, will probably take at least a year. That of course can't
>>really start until Pollock is ready for production, which is about a year away,
>>so....

>>Bottom Line: As soon as it's ready, it'll be available.

>>                                And So It Goes
>>                                     Sames

He said "in the base"  - i.e., in the supported part of the distro.
After 2 years, it will move into obsolete - shipped, but no longer
formally supported

Quote:
>Why ditch it in 2 years?  There could be a lot of apps based on the old GUI
>that won't want to convert immediately..  2 years for some apps that are
>working well and put on a maintainance level isn't an overly long time.
>There are still a number of companies out there that are using VW 3.0. Then
>you have to make sure goodies like GF/ST, HotDraw, Jun, etc.. -- all get
>ported to the new framework too?  After it is shipping, I'd keep it for 3
>years.

>Ian

>---
>http://www.upright.net/ian/

<Talk Small and Carry a Big Class Library>
James Robertson, Product Manager, Cincom Smalltalk
http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/blog/blogView


Sat, 01 Oct 2005 09:11:02 GMT  
 VW: Toolbars

Quote:
>He said "in the base"  - i.e., in the supported part of the distro.
>After 2 years, it will move into obsolete - shipped, but no longer
>formally supported

Excellent.

Ian

---
http://www.upright.net/ian/



Sat, 01 Oct 2005 09:49:17 GMT  
 VW: Toolbars
Ian,

Quote:
>Why ditch it in 2 years?  There could be a lot of apps based on the old GUI
>that won't want to convert immediately..  2 years for some apps that are
>working well and put on a maintainance level isn't an overly long time.
>There are still a number of companies out there that are using VW 3.0. Then
>you have to make sure goodies like GF/ST, HotDraw, Jun, etc.. -- all get
>ported to the new framework too?  After it is shipping, I'd keep it for 3
>years.

I am SURE that there will be a lot of apps based on the old GUI that won't want
to convert immediately.

When I said "Gone", I mean gone from the BaseImage. The old GUI Framework will
be loadable as an obsolete parcel when it is removed from the base image. Also,
it will co-reside in the base image for at LEAST 1 year as we move all the tools
to it. Maybe longer... however long it takes.

There are still a number of foolish companies out there that are using VW 2.5!
What can I do about that? Not move forward?

As for Goodies, all known large goodie developers have access to our internal
builds on a week to week basis, as well as interim releases of Pollock between
the preview releases that are shipped with VisusalWorks. They too, if they can't
otherwise move forward, will be able to load the obsolete GUI framework when it
is removed from the base image.

The goal is to gently but firmly move forward. While it will probably be YEARS
before the obsolete GUI framework is removed from the distribution, by moving it
out of the base and marking it as obsolete (when that happens in about 2 years),
we will be able to take that gentle but firm stance.

After all, it's not like we're springing it on you. We've been talking about it
for over a year already and are still giving you a 2 year warning.

                                And So It Goes
                                     Sames
______________________________________________________________________

Samuel S. Shuster [|]
VisualWorks Engineering, GUI Project
Go Smalltalk!



Sat, 01 Oct 2005 23:53:51 GMT  
 
 [ 9 post ] 

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