IBM OBJECT TECHNOLOGY STRATEGY 
Author Message
 IBM OBJECT TECHNOLOGY STRATEGY

Quote:


>Subject: Re: IBM OBJECT TECHNOLOGY STRATEGY
>Date: 17 Jul 1994 11:49:20 -0500

>>  IBM Smalltalk & VisualAge
>IBM VisualAge is a $5000 piece of garbage for the generation of
>"Graphical CICS Screens".  From what I have seen of it, it is no more
>capable of creating nor supporting "real applications" any better than
>such other garbage in common useage as PowerBuilder.
>That is to say, if you could code it in C in less than 15 minutes, then
>VisualAge is up to the task.  For anything more complicated than
>"Graphics CICS Screens", investment in a real development environment
>would be perspicasous.
>+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

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I sent for the marketing literature from IBM for VisualAge,
solicited the opinions of others on the INet regarding the utility of VA,
and saw the product myself at COMDEX Canada.

You supply a great deal of invective but no arguments to back up your
claims. From my investigations, and experience with (the expressive power
of) Smalltalk (in itself and vs. C/C++) I am rather surprized at your
summary conclusions.

Without actually owning VA, it appears to me that VA provides what it
claims to provide, eg:

- a quality Smalltalk implementation
- GUI IDE and OO Framework
- class versioning (in Team release), etc.
- true visual programming (not just the hyperbole of the so-called
  Visual C++)
- client-server communications (OO interface) (optional)
- SQL DB interface(s)
- multimedia development support (optional)
- platform independence seems to be in the cards
- the buzz is that version 2.0 is to compile to machine code,
  not intermediate code

So... would you care to provide some reasoned argument ?

  Chris.

P.S. We should never forget that the ubiquitous low-level langauges
     "C" (and by extension C++) are "garbage" in their own right:
     if C++ represents the future, too bad for computer programming;
     I say this with almost 15 years of experience in C and Smalltalk.



Fri, 03 Jan 1997 02:11:00 GMT  
 IBM OBJECT TECHNOLOGY STRATEGY

: >IBM VisualAge is a $5000 piece of garbage for the generation of
: >"Graphical CICS Screens".  From what I have seen of it, it is no more

[the rest of this agressive type 6 argument deleted...]

: I sent for the marketing literature from IBM for VisualAge,
: solicited the opinions of others on the INet regarding the utility of VA,
: and saw the product myself at COMDEX Canada.

: You supply a great deal of invective but no arguments to back up your
: claims. From my investigations, and experience with (the expressive power
: of) Smalltalk (in itself and vs. C/C++) I am rather surprized at your
: summary conclusions.

: Without actually owning VA, it appears to me that VA provides what it
: claims to provide, eg:

OK we just finished the pass 1 evaluation of the product, and await a
Windows version for pass2... so this is what we found...

: - a quality Smalltalk implementation

Yep..seemed to be pretty solid to us..nice Smalltalk-80 base and
extensions

: - GUI IDE and OO Framework

Yep...a combination of the usual IDE and Digitalk PARTS if you know that
product..

: - class versioning (in Team release), etc.

Didnt get the Team version so cant comment here...

: - true visual programming (not just the hyperbole of the so-called
:   Visual C++)

Yep..see above but generally uses the PARTS paradigm of connecting
"wires" to describe the message passing..

: - client-server communications
(OO interface) (optional) : - SQL DB interface(s)

Yep got iy to work against Oracle here..

: - multimedia development support (optional)

Again doidnt get to try this bit...

: - platform independence seems to be in the cards

Hmm dont know about this..IBM reps were talking more about other IBM
platforms like AS400 and MVS..(eek!)

: - the buzz is that version 2.0 is to compile to machine code,
:   not intermediate code

you know more than I here....

: So... would you care to provide some reasoned argument ?

:   Chris.

: P.S. We should never forget that the ubiquitous low-level langauges
:      "C" (and by extension C++) are "garbage" in their own right:
:      if C++ represents the future, too bad for computer programming;
:      I say this with almost 15 years of experience in C and Smalltalk.

Yeah Im with Cris, Im NEVER going back to C or C++ ever again...
unless its to feed and clothe my daughter..

Lindon Parker.



Sat, 04 Jan 1997 11:52:57 GMT  
 IBM OBJECT TECHNOLOGY STRATEGY

Quote:



>>Subject: Re: IBM OBJECT TECHNOLOGY STRATEGY
>>Date: 17 Jul 1994 11:49:20 -0500


>>>  IBM Smalltalk & VisualAge

>>IBM VisualAge is a $5000 piece of garbage for the generation of
>>"Graphical CICS Screens".  From what I have seen of it, it is no more
>>capable of creating nor supporting "real applications" any better than
>>such other garbage in common useage as PowerBuilder.

 Some comments about this product can be found in:

 DBMS 8/94, Page 22ff, "Defending OOP with VisualAge" by David Linthicum

 and (sorry, it's a german magazine)

 Inside OS/2, 7/94.

 Both articles are mentioning the huge memory requirement this tool
needs and coming from PARTS I would recommend to read the article in the
DBMS magazine, because I would agree with lots of comments David
Linthicum has written there (about Script-Based programming etc ..). He
wrotes: " ... never buy 1.0 of anything. This seems to be the case with
VisualAge". If VisualAge 1.0 is as good as PARTS 1.0 from Digitalk then
it's a tool to learn producing good software components and produce
serious software only with version 2.0 of these product.

 On the other hand one has to think about the possible long-term
improvements in software-producting with tools like PARTS and VisualAge
introducing (I think about the column Dan Ingalls has written in
ObjectMagazine 6/94).

 Marten

--
        Marten Feldtmann, Kieler Str.29, 24143 Kiel, Germany

                   C .... Ferry Ultra Plus ... C ++



Sun, 05 Jan 1997 08:31:37 GMT  
 
 [ 3 post ] 

 Relevant Pages 

1. Announcing: IBM Object Technology Certification - VisualAge(tm) for Smalltalk

2. New, Free, Scheme Technology from IBM Research

3. 3rd Conference on Object-Oriented Technologies and Systems (COOTS) - Student Grant Application

4. Twin Cities Object Technology User Group March 18th: Jeff Sutherland SCRUM

5. COTUG (Cleveland Object Technology Users Group) meeting - Feb 3rd, 2000 (6:30pm-8:30pm)

6. Object Technology Reuse Survey

7. Object Technology Sample Test

8. Announcemenet: Interactive Briefing on Object Technology

9. MN Object Technology User Group Meeting 2/20

10. Applied Object Technology Workshops

11. EDI and Object Technology

12. Object Technology Lecture Series - St Paul, MN

 

 
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