New To Visual Smalltalk...Need Help...... 
Author Message
 New To Visual Smalltalk...Need Help......

Hi,

I need to have a real good book on VisualSmalltalk.
Anyone know any good books that describe the internals
of VisualSmalltalk. Not only the Smalltalk language per se.

Thank You Very Much.



Wed, 18 Jun 1902 08:00:00 GMT  
 New To Visual Smalltalk...Need Help......
Unlike for other languages there aren't any smalltalk books that look beyond the basics
first steps and go anywhere further than the docs provided with the language - not to
speak of instructions on how to master the more sophisticated concepts. I guess that it is
because ST programs tend not to get far beyond instructional and academic
architectures as compared to the languages real world apps are built in - of course there
are exceptions....
If you want general descriptions on the internals the books that come with VisualWorks
give you in-depth information.
If someone knows more i would also be glad to know.

- Thomas


: Hi,

: I need to have a real good book on VisualSmalltalk.
: Anyone know any good books that describe the internals
: of VisualSmalltalk. Not only the Smalltalk language per se.

: Thank You Very Much.

--
___________________________________________________________________

Scientific Software Development  -  Internet: http://www.atlasti.de



Wed, 18 Jun 1902 08:00:00 GMT  
 New To Visual Smalltalk...Need Help......

Quote:
> Unlike for other languages there aren't any smalltalk
> books that look beyond the basics first steps and go
> anywhere further than the docs provided with the
> language - not to speak of instructions on how to
> master the more sophisticated concepts.

You're kidding, right ????

Try "The Smalltalk Developer's Guide to VisualWorks" by Tim Howard (SIGS
Books)
Try "Smalltalk With Style" by Skublics, Klimas, Thomas (Prentice-Hall)
You'd be best off, however, with The Bible: "Smalltalk Best Practice
Patterns" by Kent Beck (Prentice-Hall)

If you are specifically looking for an internals book on
VisualSmalltalk, I admit that I'm unaware of any.  But internals books
on Smalltalk aren't really necessary, because the entire language is
exposed to you in the form of the Class Hierarchy.  Besides, ParcPlace
announced long ago that there would be no future versions of VST (a
statement that now turns out to be incorrect, but we didn'd know it at
the time).  We can't blame people for not spending time writing books
about a deceased programming language, can we?

*****************************************************
*   "A heart at peace gives life to the body,
*           but ENVY rots the bones."
*                         --Proverbs 14:30
*
*   Thomas Sattler
*    Avesta Technologies, Inc.
*     New York City

*****************************************************



Wed, 18 Jun 1902 08:00:00 GMT  
 New To Visual Smalltalk...Need Help......

Quote:

>Unlike for other languages there aren't any smalltalk books that look
beyond the basics
>first steps and go anywhere further than the docs provided with the
language - not to
>speak of instructions on how to master the more sophisticated concepts. I
guess that it is
>because ST programs tend not to get far beyond instructional and academic
>architectures as compared to the languages real world apps are built in -
of course there
>are exceptions....

Where is that coming from?  There are plenty of people right on this
newsgroup using Smalltalk far beyond "instructional and academic
architectures".  There are quite a few books going beyond the syntax and
basic concepts.  OTOH, maybe it's just a good idea to never leave your
computer logged in while you are away...

--Vassili



Wed, 18 Jun 1902 08:00:00 GMT  
 New To Visual Smalltalk...Need Help......

Quote:
>Unlike for other languages there aren't any smalltalk books that look beyond the basics
>first steps and go anywhere further than the docs provided with the language - not to
>speak of instructions on how to master the more sophisticated concepts. I guess that it is
>because ST programs tend not to get far beyond instructional and academic
>architectures as compared to the languages real world apps are built in - of course there
>are exceptions....

Quite a few exceptions, enough so that they perhaps make a better
rule!  At Kronos, Inc. we produce Time and Attendance software both
shrink-wrapped and client/server in VSE.  Plus I know of quite a few
other very large projects developed in VSE.

Quote:
>If you want general descriptions on the internals the books that come with VisualWorks
>give you in-depth information.
>If someone knows more i would also be glad to know.

Pletzke's book "Advanced Smalltalk" as well as the set of books by
Lalonde and Pugh.  Kent Beck's book.  Also, Design Patterns by the
gang of four along with Design Patterns Smalltalk Companion. Etc.

Larry
--



Wed, 18 Jun 1902 08:00:00 GMT  
 New To Visual Smalltalk...Need Help......

Quote:

> Unlike for other languages there aren't any smalltalk books that look beyond the basics
> first steps and go anywhere further than the docs provided with the language - not to
> speak of instructions on how to master the more sophisticated concepts. I guess that it is
> because ST programs tend not to get far beyond instructional and academic
> architectures as compared to the languages real world apps are built in - of course there
> are exceptions....
> If you want general descriptions on the internals the books that come with VisualWorks
> give you in-depth information.
> If someone knows more i would also be glad to know.

> - Thomas

It's time for Thomas to write a book about VSE, Windows xyz and all the problemsSmalltalker
have, when they leave the academic place ... :-)

 Marten



Wed, 18 Jun 1902 08:00:00 GMT  
 New To Visual Smalltalk...Need Help......

Quote:


>> Unlike for other languages there aren't any smalltalk books that look
beyond the basics
>> first steps and go anywhere further than the docs provided with the
language - not to
>> speak of instructions on how to master the more sophisticated concepts. I
guess that it is
>> because ST programs tend not to get far beyond instructional and academic
>> architectures as compared to the languages real world apps are built in -
of course there
>> are exceptions....
>> If you want general descriptions on the internals the books that come
with VisualWorks
>> give you in-depth information.
>> If someone knows more i would also be glad to know.

>> - Thomas

>It's time for Thomas to write a book about VSE, Windows xyz and all the
problemsSmalltalker
>have, when they leave the academic place ... :-)

I don't think I need to add much to the fact that Thomas is out to lunch
here, except that all those Smalltalkers doing real world apps are not
enslaved to the publish and perish academic mentality so it is easy not to
know about them.
To the original poster, go to the bookstore and you will find several books
that cover significant details of Smalltalk. Others have already mentioned
some good names.
But even with those books, there is only one way to really get to know
Smalltalk in detail:
RTFL (last word is library)
It takes time, but there is no substitute.


Wed, 18 Jun 1902 08:00:00 GMT  
 New To Visual Smalltalk...Need Help......
I knew that statement would evoke some responses!-) Seriously, although it is correct to
say that there are quite e few books concerned with top level reasoning in OO (and I am a
great fan of patterns), what I mean is a kind of cookbook for the lower level problems of
Smalltalk as a tool to write apps. Of course it is not always pure OO aspects what really
is a hassle in everyday work. Something like: when and why use "propertyAt:" instead of
ivars, or "when do I need to disable interrupts", "when is the case for
copyToNonSmalltalkMemory", "how to extend the OLE interface", etc...

- Thomas

:> Unlike for other languages there aren't any smalltalk books that look beyond the basics
:> first steps and go anywhere further than the docs provided with the language - not to
:> speak of instructions on how to master the more sophisticated concepts. I guess that it is
:> because ST programs tend not to get far beyond instructional and academic
:> architectures as compared to the languages real world apps are built in - of course there
:> are exceptions....
:> If you want general descriptions on the internals the books that come with VisualWorks
:> give you in-depth information.
:> If someone knows more i would also be glad to know.
:>
:> - Thomas
:>
:>

: It's time for Thomas to write a book about VSE, Windows xyz and all the problemsSmalltalker
: have, when they leave the academic place ... :-)

:  Marten

--
___________________________________________________________________

Scientific Software Development  -  Internet: http://www.atlasti.de



Wed, 18 Jun 1902 08:00:00 GMT  
 
 [ 8 post ] 

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