Is this company gonna survive? 
Author Message
 Is this company gonna survive?

What about objs?  Not looking real good...anybody got a really good
current take on the company?  I don't want to know about the software,
just the company and it's future.  Are they gonna make any money?  Are
they at all aggressive in the market?

I don't mean to sound too inane I am just trying to get a couple of
opinions from some folks closer to the company.  Thanks in advance!
Feel free to send direct email or just post here I'm an occasional
lurker.

MD



Wed, 18 Jun 1902 08:00:00 GMT  
 Is this company gonna survive?
Well, the look on it is rather great actually.  You should
go out right now and buy 100000 shares, make the stock
go up and bit and make us all rich, don't you think?

\t

--

Please remove dot nospamski dot from the return address.

----------

Quote:

> What about objs?  Not looking real good...anybody got a really good
> current take on the company?  I don't want to know about the software,
> just the company and it's future.  Are they gonna make any money?  Are
> they at all aggressive in the market?

> I don't mean to sound too inane I am just trying to get a couple of
> opinions from some folks closer to the company.  Thanks in advance!
> Feel free to send direct email or just post here I'm an occasional
> lurker.

> MD



Wed, 18 Jun 1902 08:00:00 GMT  
 Is this company gonna survive?
Hi there!

I am not sure if I am the right person to answer your post, for I am not
at all near to OBJS. In fact, I am very much on the VA side of the
Smalltalk world. But I strongly believe that Smalltalk needs competition
in order not to become "legacy".

What makes me really angry is this kind of suggestive question (is this
correct english???). You seem to be some anonymous poster suggesting
that ObjectShare is about to vanish. It is exactly this kind of
"discussion" that will keep people interested in using Smalltalk for
actual projects (I mean business here) from really considering to do so.

Spreading only the bad news gives a bad impression and the mass of these
posts seem to intend to bring up a bad smell.

Companies do have bad times and investments are a risk. They invested in
Java, tried to have a "me too" product. They learned from that and sold
the group. They have a new version on the market which is worth looking
at and is an interesting tool for a lot of real world projects.
Smalltalk still is a good choice for real world stuff. Smalltalk in
general has two problems:

* Nobody seems to know its benefits
* People always tell you it's dead or a vendor is dead or another vendor
drops it or whatever kind of nonsense you find on this group day after
day (sometimes I wonder if Smalltalkers are a bit {*filter*}ic...)

VW is a great IDE and Smalltalk is a great language. Even if OBJS right
now will have to be sold or something, I do believe that some other
company will be willing to continue the business (just look at the
installed base, that's a lot of customers). Even if the name will change
again because a bigger company will have bought OBJS, the product and
the company will still be there. That case doesn't even have to be bad
for the shareholders. Note that this is hypothetical and I do neither
know of any such things or suspect anything in that direction. I simply
have no idea what is going on in ObjectShare.

But alone the product's reputation and the fact that a lot of important
and wealthy companies are using VW will keep ObjectShare from going out
of business. Business has its (cruel) rules and if ObjectShare has
financial problems, these rules won't make an exception, but ObjectShare
has an interesting customer base and that will make it an interesting
company to buy. It won't die.

So please stop this anonymous and contra-productive kind of discussion
stating over and over again that the end is near. Isn't there some
armageddon-related religious newsgroup around for that stuff? (like
alt.religion.endoftheworld ;-) )

Just my two cents...

Joachim

Quote:

> What about objs?  Not looking real good...anybody got a really good
> current take on the company?  I don't want to know about the software,
> just the company and it's future.  Are they gonna make any money?  Are
> they at all aggressive in the market?

> I don't mean to sound too inane I am just trying to get a couple of
> opinions from some folks closer to the company.



Wed, 18 Jun 1902 08:00:00 GMT  
 Is this company gonna survive?

Quote:

> I don't mean to sound too inane I am just trying to get a couple of
> opinions from some folks closer to the company.

Well, you sure sound as if you have a hidden agenda,  namely
spreading FUD...  Is this always the same guy?


Wed, 18 Jun 1902 08:00:00 GMT  
 Is this company gonna survive?
Apart from the fact that I agree with You, you seem to have forgotten to
give your full name :o)

Cheers,

Joachim

Quote:


> > I don't mean to sound too inane I am just trying to get a couple of
> > opinions from some folks closer to the company.

> Well, you sure sound as if you have a hidden agenda,  namely
> spreading FUD...  Is this always the same guy?



Wed, 18 Jun 1902 08:00:00 GMT  
 Is this company gonna survive?
re: '. . . FUD . . .'

I guess you need to define FUD for me.  OBJS has stated in their 10-Q
that their customer base is declining and they expect it to decline
further, they've been kicked off NASDAQ, they may have their credit
facility terminated, blah, blah, blah.  All that comes straight from
OBJS.  Do you mean OBJS is spreading FUD about themselves?

Further, from OBJS, the FUD spreaders, the 10-K for the fourth quarter
will have an auditor's note stating an ongoing concern about the
viability of the company.  Now there are two FUD spreaders, OBJS and the
auditors.

The poster of the original message is well posted on the internet.  All
it takes is a mouse click if you are curious.

--tc

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.



Wed, 18 Jun 1902 08:00:00 GMT  
 Is this company gonna survive?
re:  '. . . You seem to be some anonymous poster . . .'

The person who started this thread is well posted on the internet.  If
you're curious about who he is then all it takes is a mouse click.

re:  '. . . {you are] suggesting that ObjectShare is about to vanish.'

Based on the facts released by OBJS, going out of business is certainly
a possibility.

re:  'It is exactly this kind of "discussion" that will keep people
interested in using Smalltalk for actual projects (I mean business here)
from really considering to do so.'

No, a lot of people were already using VisualWorks.  The decline in
customers is due to OBJS' actions not post in c.l.s.  More recently,
OBJS' problems at BA were because of OBJS and not c.l.s.

re:  'Spreading only the bad news gives a bad impression and the mass of
these posts seem to intend to bring up a bad smell.'

You're right.  Tell OBJS not to put those statements in their 10-q and
10-k.  Also tell the auditors that we don't care if they have an ongoing
concern about the viability of OBJS.  The 10-k isn't out yet maybe you
can turn it around.

re:  '. . . a lot of important and wealthy companies are using VW. . .'

In the past maybe but very few now.

re:  'So please stop this anonymous and contra-productive kind of
discussion stating over and over again that the end is near.'

I'm sure when OBJS and the auditors stop stating bad news then the
discussions you refer to will stop also.

--tc

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.



Wed, 18 Jun 1902 08:00:00 GMT  
 Is this company gonna survive?

Quote:

> re:  '. . . a lot of important and wealthy companies are using VW. . .'

> In the past maybe but very few now.

You should check again.  I can get a corporate data sheet sent to you
that lists some of the big customers (Daimler, Deutche Bank, JP Morgan,
etc...) if you wish.  BA is just one of many....

Quote:
> re:  'So please stop this anonymous and contra-productive kind of
> discussion stating over and over again that the end is near.'

> I'm sure when OBJS and the auditors stop stating bad news then the
> discussions you refer to will stop also.

No they wont.  Want to know why?  Because just like with sports,
everyone's an expert when it comes to running companies.  Having read
most of the "Are they going under" posts here and on the Yahoo board, I
find it astounding that those "investors" make any money on the market
at all.  Their level of knowledge about ObjectShare is just slightly
better than my cat's.  But, people like to speculate as is evident here
in cls.  The current management is doing a tremendous job with the sh*t
pile they were handed by Lyons.  But, nobody really cares about that do
they.  No, instead it's much easier to just sit back and gripe and {*filter*}
about perceived problems than it is to understand the real problems and
find real solutions.

The world is much simpler when you're a spectator.

pete

Quote:
> --tc

> Sent via Deja.com http://www.*-*-*.com/
> Share what you know. Learn what you don't.



Wed, 18 Jun 1902 08:00:00 GMT  
 Is this company gonna survive?
I'm just as nervous about this stuff as the next guy but I do have some
positive thoughts as well.

1) I do like the management strategy.
2) The selling of VSE and the cost reductions associated with it will not
appear on the books till this quarter.
3) Any 5i upgrades won't be booked till this and next quarters.

I'll probably get slammed for saying this but...

It is possible that once they were booted off Nasdaq they tried to push any
losses they could into 4Q.

Since they were going to have a loss anyway it would make sense. It sort of
sets them
up for a good next quarter.

This would also explain why the delisting and poor quarter didn't hit the
stock price harder.

Any thoughts?

Quote:

>Pete,

>Nice speech but us investors were shocked at the huge expenses
>incurred in the recent earnings report.  And no explanation given.
>Perhaps you can give a little extra meow mix to your cat so it can
>explain the big SG&A to us shareholders!

>Please we'd like
>an explanation of those unusually high expenses and whether OBJS is
>beginning to earn as much (or hopefully more) as it spends.
>We cant afford those kind of losses anymore.

>Thanks.  Go OBJS!





Wed, 18 Jun 1902 08:00:00 GMT  
 Is this company gonna survive?
Pete,

Nice speech but us investors were shocked at the huge expenses
incurred in the recent earnings report.  And no explanation given.
Perhaps you can give a little extra meow mix to your cat so it can
explain the big SG&A to us shareholders!

Please we'd like
an explanation of those unusually high expenses and whether OBJS is
beginning to earn as much (or hopefully more) as it spends.  
We cant afford those kind of losses anymore.  

Thanks.  Go OBJS!

Quote:


> > re:  '. . . a lot of important and wealthy companies are using VW. . .'

> > In the past maybe but very few now.

> You should check again.  I can get a corporate data sheet sent to you
> that lists some of the big customers (Daimler, Deutche Bank, JP Morgan,
> etc...) if you wish.  BA is just one of many....

> > re:  'So please stop this anonymous and contra-productive kind of
> > discussion stating over and over again that the end is near.'

> > I'm sure when OBJS and the auditors stop stating bad news then the
> > discussions you refer to will stop also.

> No they wont.  Want to know why?  Because just like with sports,
> everyone's an expert when it comes to running companies.  Having read
> most of the "Are they going under" posts here and on the Yahoo board, I
> find it astounding that those "investors" make any money on the market
> at all.  Their level of knowledge about ObjectShare is just slightly
> better than my cat's.  But, people like to speculate as is evident here
> in cls.  The current management is doing a tremendous job with the sh*t
> pile they were handed by Lyons.  But, nobody really cares about that do
> they.  No, instead it's much easier to just sit back and gripe and {*filter*}
> about perceived problems than it is to understand the real problems and
> find real solutions.

> The world is much simpler when you're a spectator.

> pete

> > --tc

> > Sent via Deja.com http://www.*-*-*.com/
> > Share what you know. Learn what you don't.



Wed, 18 Jun 1902 08:00:00 GMT  
 Is this company gonna survive?
re:  'You should check again.  I can get a corporate data sheet sent to
you that lists some of the big customers (Daimler, Deutche Bank, JP
Morgan,....'

Your list wouldn't be nearly as large as it would have been 5 years ago.

re: '. . . it's much easier to just sit back and gripe and {*filter*}
about perceived problems than it is to understand the real problems and
find real solutions.'

Yup.  I remember all those discussions 5 years ago about OBJS going out
of business.  The posts just wouldn't stop.  You should send OBJS a
note and tell them their 10-q and 10-k is a 'perceived problem'.

re:  'The current management is doing a tremendous job with the sh*t
pile they were handed by Lyons.'

Thanks for the statement.  Now all you need is some evidence of that
and the statement will have credibility.

re:  'Their [investors] level of knowledge about ObjectShare is just
slightly better than my cat's.'

I can't answer about investors all my information comes from OBJS.

--tc

Sent via Deja.com http://www.*-*-*.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.



Wed, 18 Jun 1902 08:00:00 GMT  
 Is this company gonna survive?
Steven,

Quote:
>2) The selling of VSE and the cost reductions associated with it will not
>appear on the books till this quarter.

Eh? I didn't see anything about that!

                                And So It Goes
                                     Sames

============================================================================
Samuel S. Shuster
Continuum Methods & Frameworks, Inc.
Go Smalltalk!



Wed, 18 Jun 1902 08:00:00 GMT  
 Is this company gonna survive?
Hmmm,
Technically they sold parts for java but they threw in the VSE team as well.
They do still have VSE ( but none of the people who work on it from what I
understand ).

Quote:

>Steven,

>>2) The selling of VSE and the cost reductions associated with it will not
>>appear on the books till this quarter.

>Eh? I didn't see anything about that!

>                                And So It Goes
>                                     Sames

>===========================================================================
=
>Samuel S. Shuster
>Continuum Methods & Frameworks, Inc.
>Go Smalltalk!



Wed, 18 Jun 1902 08:00:00 GMT  
 Is this company gonna survive?

Quote:

> Technically they sold parts for java but they threw in the VSE team as
well.
> They do still have VSE ( but none of the people who work on it from what I
> understand ).

ObjectShare has not had any folks working on VSE for a couple of years now.
Most of the original VSE development team works for us at Instantiations.
The sale of the P4J team does not effect ObjectShare's ability to support or
upgrade VSE (as is evidenced by the recent 3.1.3 release) or add-ons like
WBPro or Subpanes/V.

-Eric



Wed, 18 Jun 1902 08:00:00 GMT  
 Is this company gonna survive?
        Hmm. Is Objectshare in any way planning to sell VSE and Instantiations
thinking about buying it? Is there anything going on behind the scenes
on the VSE front?

Jun Nolasco

Quote:

> Most of the original VSE development team works for us at Instantiations.



Wed, 18 Jun 1902 08:00:00 GMT  
 
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